Author Topic: AFT 2021-Starts Today  (Read 1729 times)

Online Guzzistajohn

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2021, 02:28:23 PM »
Not this year, but I'll be watching to see if Johnny Lewis can get the RE to do good in a mile track.

I'm gettin' pumped, It's been a long time  :thumb:
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Offline krglorioso

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2021, 04:18:33 PM »
Not this year, but I'll be watching to see if Johnny Lewis can get the RE to do good in a mile track.

I, too.  I have a '21 RE 650 with the Breva 750.  May be a tad late to renew my 1960s AMA Expert flat track license, tho.  I guess I'm relegated to street riding.  That's enough excitement for an old guy.  Knowing all the variables that must be dealt with to make winning flat track bike, I cannot praise Royal Enfield enough for their incredibly rapid development of Lewis's bike from street bike to winner's circle, beating well established, well-financed teams from Yamaha, Kawasaki and Harley Davidson (all with good riders). 

I only wish that Indian Twins class was abolished and Production Twins would become the premier class.  Plus doing away with NASCAR-like limited entries and 53' transporters with techs and telemetry. 

Ralph
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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2021, 04:50:20 PM »
I, too.  I have a '21 RE 650 with the Breva 750.  May be a tad late to renew my 1960s AMA Expert flat track license, tho.  I guess I'm relegated to street riding.  That's enough excitement for an old guy.  Knowing all the variables that must be dealt with to make winning flat track bike, I cannot praise Royal Enfield enough for their incredibly rapid development of Lewis's bike from street bike to winner's circle, beating well established, well-financed teams from Yamaha, Kawasaki and Harley Davidson (all with good riders). 

I only wish that Indian Twins class was abolished and Production Twins would become the premier class.  Plus doing away with NASCAR-like limited entries and 53' transporters with techs and telemetry. 

Ralph

I'm not happy about the way things are being done either, but not unhappy enough to not go enjoy the races anyway. And it's not much of a road trip for me.
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Offline Moparnut72

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2021, 09:00:02 PM »
The whole thing is a mess. Should go back to production based 750s and send the special built Indians home. If they don't want to produce a production 750, too bad. But Harley is going to be in the same boat if they put in a year restriction like NASCAR does or at least used to. I am also rooting for RE. They have done amazing things in a very short time.
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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2021, 09:00:02 PM »

Offline Daniel Kalal

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2021, 09:55:53 PM »
Quote from: krglorioso
...doing away with...techs and telemetry.

"techs" (in the form of tuners and mechanics) have always been part of every team.  The only thing remotely like "telemetry" would be the transponder used to track the laps and times of each bike; that's it.  It's legal to store onboard engine data for later download, but that's not done through telemetry.

Online Guzzistajohn

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2021, 09:12:49 PM »
DuQuoin is called off for rain ..................     R-A-T-F-A-R-T-S!  :angry:
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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2021, 09:26:45 PM »
DuCoin is a fantastic track.  Best racing ever in '80s Parker vs Carr.

Anyway, it looks like they're making rule changes to help Yamaha or anyone else after the Indians.

https://www.cyclenews.com/2021/07/article/american-flat-track-supertwins-rules-update-for-the-2021-season/

The minimum weight for Mission SuperTwins bikes based around a “race-only engine” will increase from 310 to 330 lbs, while production-based machines will remain at 310.

The base flywheel for race-only engined bikes must be fitted and cannot be modified in any way, conforming to the approved weight and dimensions with no mass added or removed.

The maximum wheel assembly for bikes with race-only engines has been limited to 35 lbs compared to a 43 lb maximum for production-based bikes.  (I never knew that heavier was better- JL)

The changes appear to be an initial attempt to address the overwhelming dominance of a single platform — the Indian FTR750 — both in terms of numbers and success, even as the premier class has seen decreased entries while the production-based alternatives have largely fled to the AFT Production Twins category.

The areas of focus, such as flywheel mass and the related circuit-by-circuit adjustability, are those in which Indian’s dedicated racebike cannot be realistically matched by production-based machinery as the rules previously existed.

John L 
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Offline Daniel Kalal

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2021, 10:48:39 PM »
Quote from: LowRyter
...I never knew that heavier was better...

Before the clamp-down, the ways in which wheels were made heavy were sometimes pretty comical (and not "exactly" illegal).  "Inflating" your tire with water?  It's been done.  Bolting weights to the wheel rims?  It's been done.  Running multiple tubes?  It's been done.  Actually, it was the bolt-on approach that brought all this to a halt.  That's a dangerous thing to be doing (and so is running tires filled with water).  These days, for some tracks you'll see a back wheel that's nearly a solid machining, but there is an upper weight limit to watch.  But, watching water drain out of your tire is just embarrassing...

Heavy flywheels have been known to be important for years (decades) and it was an area that always gave the XR750 an advantage.  Indian had that designed in from the beginning.  Now, they're limited to the original weight (which is still a pretty good chunk).

Offline krglorioso

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2021, 10:59:31 PM »
Why not allow privateers with XR-750s to run time trials?  It's a 750 race bike with direct connection to the Sportsters of years past.  Maybe it might embarrass the purpose built Indian twins, is that it?  Heck, one of Ron Woods' Norton Trackmasters might win..  Run whatcha brung as long as it meets the general specifications and passes tech inspection.  If you don't make the cut in time trials, the top  48 bikes for 4 heats of 12 each, you load up and enjoy watching the races. 

Time was when 60+ bikes would time trial for an AMA national.  Last AFT race I watched had either 11 or 12 bikes (of the sacred 18 allowed to compete in Indian Twins) show up.  The semis had a half dozen bikes in each.   

Ralph
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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2021, 05:43:28 PM »
I think AFT needs to get the rule package together.  Saw the Lima race and only eleven bikes in the Pro class.  Same as OKC. 

Somehow they need to combine the production twins with the super twins.  I am used to seeing 24 or so racers go for 16 spots.
John L 
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2021, 06:32:46 PM »
Just watching the race from yesterday, I forgot.
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2021, 05:01:46 PM »
Johnny does OK when it doesn't break.  That means it's getting into the "typical British" realm.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 05:04:47 PM by guzzisteve »
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2021, 06:11:47 PM »
It's kinda funny more riders aren't on them, maybe after it's perfected. It'll then have a price tag on it $$.
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Online SoCV

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2021, 06:32:30 PM »
It's kinda funny more riders aren't on them, maybe after it's perfected. It'll then have a price tag on it $$.

 I think once more are available in full race framer form they will become more popular . As of this time the two being raced are the only two in existence . Guessing if ten are ready next year ten teams will race them , but someone has to build twenty frames and twenty engines first .

 TS
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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2021, 10:46:14 AM »
Dusty.  To be clear the RE runs in the "production twins" class, not the "pro" class.  Since there are only 11 bikes running the top class, it might make sense to just go to one "twins class" for cost and perhaps safety reasons.   We need more than 11 bikes running a feature. 
John L 
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2021, 11:29:53 AM »
Isn't that how it was before Indian ruled the class a few years ago?
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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2021, 12:09:08 PM »
 Yes , the RE runs proddy , but the only stipulation is the engines must be production based , other than that they are full on race bikes . Custom frames , high zoot suspension , etc .

 Most insiders do believe AFT will start fiddling with the rules to make at least one other brand competitive in Pro-Twins , the new flywheel weight limits and eliminating the use of the heavy rear wheel on the FTR is a start . Lowryter is correct , a class can't survive with 11 entries . AFT might even eliminate the class in a couple of years , who knows . Polaris has proven their point , hire an outside firm to build a race motor , find the right engineers to package it in a proper dirt track frame , hire the three best riders available at the time , bang , they are dominant . That's racing , but for some reason Pro-Twins hasn't mirrored the top class from twenty years ago where you had 25 XR's showing up mixed in with a few oddities like a Ron Wood creation to vie for the main . Maybe if Polaris turned the aftermarket loose to build engines that were FTR copies like what happened with the XR things would improve , but at the moment it looks like the proddy class is the future . Dunno .

 TS
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2021, 11:44:57 AM »
Well, it's a no go so far. I'm watching the short track from last night cause I forgot.
Maybe tomorrow for Springfield Mile.
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Offline mtiberio

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2021, 02:13:10 PM »
...

Heavy flywheels have been known to be important for years (decades) and it was an area that always gave the XR750 an advantage.  Indian had that designed in from the beginning.  Now, they're limited to the original weight (which is still a pretty good chunk).


Works in FT and roadracing when you are traction limited. Which is almost always the case in FT.
The weight makes the wheel (and tire) that much more sluggish, so it doesn't break traction so soon. Same result you get by going to a twingle firing order.  Only there it improves traction because of the long pause between the bangs gives the tire a chance to hook back up.
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Offline Moparnut72

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2021, 05:50:08 PM »
The mile has been postponed until Monday due to weather.
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2021, 05:02:49 PM »
So far they are putting on a good show dicing it up.
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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2021, 08:57:01 PM »
Just to clarify , today's scheduled race , Springfield I will be on Monday , tomorrow's scheduled race , Springfield II will be tomorrow as scheduled , this is a double header weekend .

 TS

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John L 
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Online delrod

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2021, 09:08:16 PM »
Got to see most of today's race. Had to leave before the end of the main to beat sundown. Made it to a campground at Pittsfield ill and going to have my last Stag beer and ride home in the morning.
Doug in Pittsburg KS
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2021, 09:19:12 PM »
18yr old kid beat em all, singles & production twins. FBI rider from Mattoon,IL , Dallas Daniels.
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Offline krglorioso

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2021, 09:26:34 PM »
#23, Jeffrey Carver, pulled a 5th in the Indian Twins class after being absent (no team?) for a year.  Coming back after a year off and leading the National for some laps and then getting a Top Five finish impressed me mightily.  I thought Carver's dangerous last turn "slide job" that nearly collected Briar Bauman was a very poor move and cost Carver a 4th.

What never impresses me favorably in AFT is the presence of trackside announcer, the near 60 year old adolescent wannabee, Ricky "Rodent" Rachtman, with his puerile get-up and manner that would be passe at a high school pep rally.  The ghosts of George Roeder and Ronnie Rall must be turning over in their graves.  Kristin Beat does a superb job and never resorts to childish spiels a la Ricky. 

There you have it, two cents worth from a long ago flat track racer and Charter Member of the White Plate Flat Tracker's Association, started by J.C. "Pappy" Hoel around 50 years ago to acknowledge those Expert licensed flat track racers prior to 1970, who pulled their bike trailers with old cars and panel trucks and slept in their cars to save money.  No 53' transporters, telemetry, etc.  Hardscrabble times, but precious to those who did it.

Ralph
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2021, 03:41:02 PM »
Mile in CA going on.
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2021, 03:10:54 PM »
Sacramento Mile #2 is on!
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Re: AFT 2021-Starts Today
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2021, 03:50:11 PM »
 My buddy Rich B who owned the last Triumph to qualify for a 1/2 mile national in 1975 just won an unraced Kawasaki framer built in 2018 (?) with a Woody Kyle built engine in a raffle that helped raise money for the class of '79 charity . He called all excited not sure what he was gonna do with it  :laugh:

 TS
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