NGC. another bike with no spark???

[bobrebos]

So now Im working on a 2003 Suzuki Burgman 650cc Scooter (Heavier than some motorcycles, lol).  Tryin to get it started after it sat for four years.  Drained all old gas out of tank.
Put 2 gallons of fresh Non ethanol gas in tank
Tried to start....no start.  Checked for spark at plugs.  NO SPARK!  Bike is turning over normally and I installed a new battery.  Checked all fuses and all fuses are good.

It has three relays in system and all are "clicking" so i dont think its a relay problem.  Sidestand switch is working, (Wont turn over when sidestand is down) emergency kill switch is working (Wont turn over when activated).  Have to activate hand brake levers in order for bike to turn over so they are working.  Hmmm?  What to check next????  That's two bikes im working on that have no spark.  What a nightmare.  LOL

Bike has a total of 1300 miles on it and all parts seem new when im hunting around inside all the plastics!

[Kent in Upstate NY]

Have you checked the spark plug wires at the coil?

[bobrebos]

Have you checked the spark plug wires at the coil?

Im checking the coil next then further up the wiring line and see if I can find a disconnected wire or related.  I will post when I figure out what the problem is. 

[oldbike54]

 Dunno , I would start at the sparking plug .

 Dusty

[Chuck in Indiana]

I wouldn't think there would be any rocket science involved..

[bobrebos]

I found the no spark on cylinder #1 issue with this thing.  Was a loose plug wire not making contact (good contact) with the plug.  Put on new wire and spark exists now.  Still wont start and I get no whirling sound from the fuel pump when ignition is on so probably no fuel getting to plug.  Check fuel pump/filter next which of course you gotta take all kinds of stuff off to get at it.  geezzzzzz

[Kiwi_Roy]

You found a loose lead, I'm guessing you have 2 coils so you should be able to measure the resistance from each plug cap to chassis ~8,000 Ohms, it should be the same on both sides.
Or is it a single?

I googled it and came up with a Ford manual that certainly looks like a suzuki
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1053929/Suzuki-Burgman-Uh125.html#manual

If you could reference the correct manual I could possibly be more help.

[bobrebos]

You found a loose lead, I'm guessing you have 2 coils so you should be able to measure the resistance from each plug cap to chassis ~8,000 Ohms, it should be the same on both sides.
Or is it a single?

I googled it and came up with a Ford manual that certainly looks like a suzuki
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1053929/Suzuki-Burgman-Uh125.html#manual

If you could reference the correct manual I could possibly be more help.

It has two in line "Stick Coils" so I doubt the coils are bad because plugs are firing, but I get no whirring sound from fuel pump coming on at all so im going to check the fuel pump for 12 volts after I remove the seat, battery tray etc to get access to the top of the fuel tank where the fuel pump is an inside the tank one.  Im lookin for a link to the 2003 Suzuki Burgman 650 service manual on line.  I have one on my computer but I cant attach it to this post.  Guess Im not smart enough.  lol

[bobrebos]

Im also working on a 2000 Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad 1500 FI, that has no spark.  Im trying to get access to the coils and see if there is 12 volts to them but what a mess this bike is.  They crammed more crap into a small space making accesss to the coils almost impossible!  I don't think both pulsating picup coils by the stator would have went bad at the same time (No firing at any of the four plugs) so I am leaning toward a fried ECU.  All safety switches, kickstand/neutral, emergency kill etc seem to be fine.  Bike turns over fine with no spark at any plug.  Again, I doubt on the Kawasaki that either both pick-up pulsating coils or both ignition coils went bad at the same time????  Maybe ecu is bad?  Those things are pricey.  LOL

[bobrebos]

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/794402/Suzuki-An650.html

[Kiwi_Roy]

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/794402/Suzuki-An650.html

Thanks for posting the manual, it looks like it should be fairly straight forward
looking at the schematic on page 174
Make sure you have 12 Volts on the fuel pump relay coil which will also mean you have it on the coils
The thing is the ECM must ground the other side of the pump relay
I expect it might run the pump for a couple of seconds when you turn the key on

The Camshaft position sensor or the Crankshaft Position Sensor tell the plugs to fire and the pump to run.
Do you see any spark or hear the pump as the motor turns over?

I often suggest that a small lamp attached to the pump relay contact and chassis would be worth its weight in gold as a troubleshooting aid in fact its the first mod I made to my new V7

One other thing you have is the Tip Over Sensor, I expect that could be disabling the ECM

Does the dash show any alarms?

I'll wait to hear back before I add any more

Good Luck

[bobrebos]

Thanks for posting the manual, it looks like it should be fairly straight forward
looking at the schematic on page 174
Make sure you have 12 Volts on the fuel pump relay coil which will also mean you have it on the coils
The thing is the ECM must ground the other side of the pump relay
I expect it might run the pump for a couple of seconds when you turn the key on

The Camshaft position sensor or the Crankshaft Position Sensor tell the plugs to fire and the pump to run.
Do you see any spark or hear the pump as the motor turns over?

I often suggest that a small lamp attached to the pump relay contact and chassis would be worth its weight in gold as a troubleshooting aid in fact its the first mod I made to my new V7

One other thing you have is the Tip Over Sensor, I expect that could be disabling the ECM

Does the dash show any alarms?

I'll wait to hear back before I add any more

Good Luck

I have just gained access to the top of the fuel pump and will check for 12 volts being at the fuel pump when key is turned on.  I have spark at the spark plugs if that is what you were referring to.  I get no noise when I turn the bike over (Activate starter button) coming from the fuel pump area.  The bike just turns over , spark plugs do spark when I checked them, but it wont start.  The dash doesn't show any faults or alarms, and I don't know where the tip over switch is or how to reset it if that is in fact needed to be done.  Bob

[Kiwi_Roy]

You probably won't find 12 Volts at the pump, its only there while priming and later on when the engine is cranking.
(Attach a light there if you can, you will see it flash on for a second when you turn the key On and should see it come back on while cranking, a light is much easier than using a meter)

Ok you have spark when you turn it over, that tells me the position sensors are working and I suspect the Tip-Over is OK
You could try a shot of starting fluid just to ensure the sparks are firing correctly, it should run for a burst.

So you need fuel, perhaps the pump is gummed up or maybe just the injectors are gummed
Pumps usually put out about 40 PSI
Might be a hose off in the pump circuit also
 

[bobrebos]

You probably won't find 12 Volts at the pump, its only there while priming and later on when the engine is cranking.
(Attach a light there if you can, you will see it flash on for a second when you turn the key On and should see it come back on while cranking, a light is much easier than using a meter)

Ok you have spark when you turn it over, that tells me the position sensors are working and I suspect the Tip-Over is OK
You could try a shot of starting fluid just to ensure the sparks are firing correctly, it should run for a burst.

So you need fuel, perhaps the pump is gummed up or maybe just the injectors are gummed
Pumps usually put out about 40 PSI
Might be a hose off in the pump circuit also

I get 10.6 volts at the plug that goes into the fuel pmp, when the key is tuned on and yes, it has 12.9 volts at battery/new battery.  Im going to run 12 volt wire just momentarily to the actual fuel pump for a split second and see if it comes on at all.  I will also try the light idea

[bobrebos]

I ran a positive and negative wire directly from battery (reading 12.8 volts) to al the different terminals (5 of them) on the pump to see if I could get it to come on.  Nothing.  the pump did nothing.  Shouldn't it have at least spun briefly when i gave it 12 volts?  Bob

[pat80flh]

Have you tried whacking in the general vicinity of the pump. I've started many a stalled GM pickup truck by whacking the bottom of the tank while someone was cranking it over.  Known in the industry as the "GM Tap Test".

[Chuck in Indiana]

Have you tried whacking in the general vicinity of the pump. I've started many a stalled GM pickup truck by whacking the bottom of the tank while someone was cranking it over.  Known in the industry as the "GM Tap Test".

I had an Austin Healey back in the day that needed an occasional tap on the fuel pump..

[Kiwi_Roy]

When you hit it with 12 Volts do you get a good healthy spark off the wire as you scratch it on to the battery?

If not there might be varnish on the commutator from dried out gas this can insulate the brushes, this is quite common with a bike that's been sitting.
My Bro Kiwi Kev got a flying brick going for me I will ask him to comment.   

If yes a spark but no whirr its jammed up 

Either way try to get some carb cleaner into the pump. 

[KiwiKev]

When you hit it with 12 Volts do you get a good healthy spark off the wire as you scratch it on to the battery?

If not there might be varnish on the commutator from dried out gas this can insulate the brushes, this is quite common with a bike that's been sitting.
My Bro Kiwi Kev got a flying brick going for me I will ask him to comment.   

If yes a spark but no whirr its jammed up 

Either way try to get some carb cleaner into the pump.

I had to pull the pump out of the tank and dismantle it. The thing was seized up well and truly. With a bit of judicious prodding it freed up and worked fine from then on.

I wanted to get it running before I bought the brick on Roy's behalf. It ran fine until the fuel pipe dropped off inside the tank one day. I must have torqued it up properly so my fault but it was a ten minute roadside fix for two intrepid kiwi riders.

Kev

[Motormike]

If the bike has sat for a long time with ethanol gas in the tank, the fuel pump may be gummed up with crud.  Pull it and flush it out with WD-40 or some other solvent cleaner.  Hook up a 12 V battery to the terminals and if the pump runs, the torque will cause it to flop around like a fish out of water!  Or the internal wiring to the pump may be corroded away from any water sitting in the bottom of the tank.  I had that exact issue on my Buell Ulysses.  Right where the wires were soldered to the terminals one was corroded away.  Nothing some new wires and a little JB weld potting couldn't fix.