Half Plastic Fuel Filter in 2016 V7II Stone

[redhawk47]

I was not finding definitive information whether my 2016 V7II Stone had a half plastic fuel filter. So I was concerned about the fuel filter on my 2016 V7II Stone and I decided to change it. I have a station that sell E0 premium that is three miles from my house so that is what I normally use, but when traveling I use tier one fuel that usually is E10.

 The filter was a steel/plastic combo and the plastic was brown and swollen but not cracked or leaking.




 As I was swapping out the filter I noticed this:




 What is it? I found no reference to in the parts or service manuals, and no hoses in the tank to connect to it.
 A guess is that it is a check/pressure relief valve for the return line from the fuel injectors, a feature not found on V7IIs.
 Anybody know what it is?

[ITSec]

What is it? I found no reference to in the parts or service manuals, and no hoses in the tank to connect to it.
 A guess is that it is a check/pressure relief valve for the return line from the fuel injectors, a feature not found on V7IIs.
 Anybody know what it is?

Chances are you are correct - but you're looking at it the wrong way. On modern fuel injection systems, what we used to think of as the high pressure rail doesn't use a return line. Instead, the 'rail' is everything from the fuel pump all the way to the injectors, all being maintained at pressure. It simplifies things since it eliminates an extra line and an external pressure valve. Instead, the pressure relief valve sits on the part of the high pressure rail that's inside the tank, and releases an appropriate amount of fuel back into the tank to maintain a steady pressure within the rail. This does mean that the tank ends up being under a certain amount of internal pressure itself, which may contribute to some other odd symptoms.

[pete roper]

What is it? I found no reference to in the parts or service manuals, and no hoses in the tank to connect to it.
 A guess is that it is a check/pressure relief valve for the return line from the fuel injectors, a feature not found on V7IIs.
 Anybody know what it is?

Chances are you are correct - but you're looking at it the wrong way. On modern fuel injection systems, what we used to think of as the high pressure rail doesn't use a return line. Instead, the 'rail' is everything from the fuel pump all the way to the injectors, all being maintained at pressure. It simplifies things since it eliminates an extra line and an external pressure valve. Instead, the pressure relief valve sits on the part of the high pressure rail that's inside the tank, and releases an appropriate amount of fuel back into the tank to maintain a steady pressure within the rail. This does mean that the tank ends up being under a certain amount of internal pressure itself, which may contribute to some other odd symptoms.

Err. No it doesn't. The amount of fuel in the tank isn't increasing so why would it pressurise? All it's doing is bleeding back fuel into the tank because the rail is fully pressurised.

To answer the original question, yes, that is the pressure relief valve. It is very crappy and it's spring is prone to rust and the plunger to seizure if there is a lot of moisture in the tank.

Pete

[Kev m]

As Pete said, it's the fuel pressure regulator. All it does is vent fuel from the pressurized system back into the tank in order to maintain a specified pressure in the fuel lines (which allows the ECM to accurately calculate fuel spray based on dwell time).

[redhawk47]

Does it do anything on my V7II? It doesn't appear to be connected to anything. Is some plumbing missing?

[guzzisteve]

Most likely connected internally on the pump plate, don't connect anything to it, it's an exit.

I would blow air through the cap area drain & vent to make sure they stay cleaned out.

[SportsterDoc]

If the swollen hybrid metal/plastic fuel filter were not replaced by the OP, any guesses on its life expectancy?
Survive the 2 year warranty or no?

[Kev m]

Yes it does something I controls pressure by bleeding it off back into the tank.

Doc I've pressure tested a 3-4 y/o swelling filter to 120 psi. I don't think the one I tested was ever going to fail.

[Roebling3]

It is my understanding that all big blocks use the same Mahle fuel filter, except that it is all steel and costs ~6 bux more. If the plastic/steel filter fails after warrantee the entire pump/filter assy., mounting plate included has been declared by MG to be the replacement part. Rather than ~$65.00 try choking down $600 + labor.
I replaced mine (V7 III), @ 450 miles and swollen. I try to limit inconvenience . The same goes for the spark plug caps. R3~

[SportsterDoc]

Doc I've pressure tested a 3-4 y/o swelling filter to 120 psi. I don't think the one I tested was ever going to fail.

Thanks, Kevin.
I need to research threads reporting age and/or mileage on ones that have burst.
Perhaps a very small percentage?

From this thread, perhaps the swollen appearance is not necessarily a concern:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=88841.0

Not an easy fix alongside the road!
...although I suppose I could buy a spare filter and carry it in one of my side-cases.
...but might not be easy refueling the tank on Route 66
...although the Hualapai have opened a Unocal station in Peach Springs (53 miles from Kingman/36 miles from Seligman), but nothing between Kingman and Seligman along Interstate 40, about 70 miles


.

[Kev m]

Probably a right pia on the side of the road.

I've only seen maybe now four or five reports of failures in a decade.

Both the ones I replaced seemed fine (the latter one tested).

My hypothesis is if it's going to fail it's a defect and alleys would have. So if it makes it to say 1k miles and hasn't failed it likely won't.

There why I waited 3+ years both times.

But someone recently had one fail in under 600 miles.

We'll that would still fit my theory for now.

[Darren Williams]

My 1200 Sport filter failed at about 24,000 miles.  If you are going to pull the tank, go ahead and replace it at your convenience. They are cheap and one less thing to worry about. Believe me, when you are on the side of the road it is a pain to do. I never got around to replacing the filter in my Stelvio, after 15 months and 20,000 miles, but it was on my list of soon to do things over the winter.

I do agree with Kevm that the ones failing are probably factory defective, such as the plastic lip was not crimped in properly, and as it softens, it lets go.  I also used E0 most of the time except when traveling, which was considerable on that bike.

[redhawk47]

As a mechanical/manufacturing engineer I feel that a plastic material that changes color and shape in its intended environment is the wrong material for the job. The changes are evidence that the material is failing. The fact that the filter has not yet failed in its function is not the deciding factor; the fact that it could fail at any time warrants its replacement.
 
Several persons have reported discussions with people knowledgeable of the Mahle product line that the KL 150 plastic/metal fuel filter is (1) not suitable for use for fuel containing ethanol and (2) designed for diesel fuel.

Does Moto Guzzi not read the user forums? The forums are probably the best consumer research tool there is. This issue has been going on for several years. There is a simple solution: replace the filter with an all metal filter.

Dan

[DaSwami]

Doesn't hurt to list or link to the list of all metal filters that are suitable as replacements??

[jpv7]

It is my understanding that all big blocks use the same Mahle fuel filter, except that it is all steel and costs ~6 bux more. If the plastic/steel filter fails after warrantee the entire pump/filter assy., mounting plate included has been declared by MG to be the replacement part. Rather than ~$65.00 try choking down $600 + labor.
I replaced mine (V7 III), @ 450 miles and swollen. I try to limit inconvenience . The same goes for the spark plug caps. R3~

+1.  2 less things that can ruin your ride.  Did both already on my V7ii.

[Zoom Zoom]

Then to further complicate things, There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what is being used other than perhaps what is available at the time of manufacture. My Norge had the half plastic filter yet my '09 Stelvio has a metal filter. Since I am the original owner, I know it came with it. Then we fast forward to newer bikes and discover the half plastic one still in use. As I had mentioned before, when I changed out the one in my Norge, the plastic part was very soft and pliable. It had not failed. Perhaps it may have forged ahead for some time, IDK, but I do know it is not supposed to feel like rubber. It was pretty easy to replace so I did.

I just wish they would stop using the plastic one. One of these days, I need to get a bore scope and have a look inside the 1400 fuel tank and see what they put in there.

John Henry

[SportsterDoc]

Links I've clicked on to replacements give message 404.
As DaSwami commented, it would be useful to have a list of suitable replacements.

[redhawk47]

A list of fuel filters that fit:

Triumph Stock - T1240850
 AC GF61
 BMW - 16 14 2 325 859
 Mann MWK44
 Fleetguard FF149
 Fram G2
 KNECHT MAHLE KL145
 Motocraft FG-2
 Napa Gold 3032
 Purolator - F20011
 Wix 33032

I used a Napa - about $6.

[Darren Williams]

When mine came apart in a multi-state trip, I called the Tulsa Guzzi service guy (Donnie) and he was so familiar with this rare event he had the Wix part number memorized.

[SportsterDoc]

A list of fuel filters that fit:

Triumph Stock - T1240850
 AC GF61
 BMW - 16 14 2 325 859
 Mann MWK44
 Fleetguard FF149
 Fram G2
 KNECHT MAHLE KL145
 Motocraft FG-2
 Napa Gold 3032
 Purolator - F20011
 Wix 33032

I used a Napa - about $6.

Thanks
Just for curiosity, does MG not make an all metal one, a different part  number than the metal/plastic?
Before I posted I checked AF1 Racing and a couple other on-line sources and found nothing.

[SportsterDoc]

When mine came apart in a multi-state trip, I called the Tulsa Guzzi service guy (Donnie) and he was so familiar with this rare event he had the Wix part number memorized.

Enough to push a recall?

[Kev m]

Thanks
Just for curiosity, does MG not make an all metal one, a different part  number than the metal/plastic?
Before I posted I checked AF1 Racing and a couple other on-line sources and found nothing.

Well obviously MG doesn't "make" any of them any more than they "make" any other fuel injection, suspension, electronic, or brake components, or bearings, or wheels, or...

[Darren Williams]

Enough to push a recall?

Not nearly enough, not even on their radar screen. Especially if the 1200 8V flat tappet fiasco didn't.

[SportsterDoc]

Well obviously MG doesn't "make" any of them any more than they "make" any other fuel injection, suspension, electronic, or brake components, or bearings, or wheels, or...

OK, just for you, I will re-phrase:
Does MG sell all metal fuel filters for a v7 II?
If so, what is the part number?

BTW, in researching, the filter is 5/16" fitting in and out.
WIX is 1.936" diameter x 3.862" long, rated 20 microns and burst test to 60 PSI, $5.25 through Summit Racing

Fram G2 and Purolator F20011 are all plastic.

AC GF61 is $4.99 at O'Reillys, but is larger (2.17" x 4.55") than the WIX and may not be stocked.

Motocraft FG-2 is discontinued due to "low demand"

[Kev m]

Do they sell? Not that I'm aware of... They don't "see" a problem.

[SportsterDoc]

Do they sell? Not that I'm aware of... They don't "see" a problem.

I am not even finding a part number for the stock fuel filter.

The only reference to "fuel filter" in the 280 page manual is on page 149.





Nothing about replacement intervals.

The ultra fine print user-maintenance book indicates inspect (3) fuel hoses on page 215.

[SportsterDoc]

I pulled the fuel cap assembly.
< 5 minutes
5 screws, requiring a 2.5 mm Allen
2 metal parts, below the bezel and two rubber gaskets
With all out, there is no view of the fuel filter or any part of the fuel pump assembly.

[Kev m]

I pulled the fuel cap assembly.
< 5 minutes
5 screws, requiring a 2.5 mm Allen
2 metal parts, below the bezel and two rubber gaskets
With all out, there is no view of the fuel filter or any part of the fuel pump assembly.

That's cause it's at the lower, left, front corner of the tank.

[lorazepam]

You need to remove the tank, then remove the pump assembly to change it. Not going to happen any other way.

[kingoffleece]

I replaced my fuel filter with an all metal Mehle (?).  Hamlin Cycles was able to order it for me. 

As reported above, I had also checked the Mehle info via the web and discovered that the supplied half plastic filter, as specified by the manufacturer, is not specified for any ethanol gasoline.