Author Topic: drip from clutch housing griso update  (Read 1232 times)

Offline lucian

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drip from clutch housing griso update
« on: August 24, 2022, 10:08:09 AM »
Looks like I have developed the dreaded oil leak from the rear main seal or bearing flange gasket. Bike is an early 08 with the A5 motor. Minor single drop after riding at this point but will probably only get worse over time. I have read about the early defect related to the bearing flange having bottom bolts that were too long and an overly deep o ring groove. I would like to collect the things I will need to fix it in the future. I will make or purchase a flange puller and required gaskets ect. The clutch plate I will replace if fouled but is working normally for now. The question is whether or not I will need to replace the bearing flange if the o ring groove was machined too deep. Perhaps an oversized o ring? Any advice on this  fix would be much appreciated.  dave
« Last Edit: September 04, 2022, 03:26:44 PM by lucian »

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2022, 02:49:07 PM »
I've done a few of them. In the bulletin I think it goes together w/o a gasket and stock oring.
They say to use very thin smear of 3bond. I better dig it out if I still have it in my folders.
 


Pretty much what it looks like.
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2022, 07:11:34 PM »
Update----------- Looked & looked, found lots of stuff all the way back to 03 but not the bulletin I was looking for bout the rear bearing housing.
Time to go to the Ghetto. But that was before there was a Ghetto. Pete'll know.

Edit:  From our Pete Roper

"Yes, early 8V's could suffer from a leak. The cause was threefold. Firstly the two lower bolt holes for the flange weren't deep enough for the bolts so they bottomed out before clamping the flange. Cure? Use 5mm shorter bolts!

Secondly the case wasn't machined properly and the oil feed dowel was too long meaning that, once again, the flange couldn't clamp. Cure? Take a mm or a bit more off the dowel with a smooth file so it doesn't foul in the case and use a slightly fatter o-ring around it. Make sure any dwarf from the filing is rinsed out of the gallery and everything is squeaky clean on reassembly. Smear the rear crank journal with assembly lube before slipping the flange back over it and align with long bolts through a couple of the bolt holes before pressing/tapping it home.

Thirdly the flange gasket, for whatever reason, is leak prone. Cure? On reassembly delete the gasket and just use a very thin smear of Threebond 1211 on the flange mating surface and make sure none of it gets into the rear main feed dowel or gallery."

Well, there you have it.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 07:50:10 PM by guzzisteve »
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Offline lucian

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2022, 08:41:25 PM »
Can't thank you enough  Steve. I am happy I don't have to source /replace the flange. I imaging it would be a pricy part. I have ruled out all other possible leak sources and it's quit obvious as the oil drops have a very dark tinge of clutch dust mixed in. You're a good man to spend your time helping out someone you have never even met. I really appreciate it.
 Seems like i'm on a roll lately with leakers.  I just put the rear drive on my v50 back together with new seals and a big bearing only to go for a test ride and get back and find a drop of gear lube hanging out of the bottom. :violent1: I think the seal surface on the hollow shaft was rust pitted too deeply to seal properly. I cleaned it up well with emery but couldn't get all of the pitting out. I'll search for a speedi sleeve or a hollow shaft in better shape.
 Look's like the Griso job is just a whole bunch of labor...… hopefully!
Thanks again, Dave

Wildguzzi.com

Re: drip from clutch housing griso
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2022, 08:41:25 PM »

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2022, 09:47:40 PM »
Well, I remembered 1/3 of it anyways from 10yrs ago. Happy to help out. 



















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Online Ncdan

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2022, 04:58:05 PM »
Well good news on the v50 front. Just took a long spin and no more drips. Must have been some spillage out of the level hole when i filled up the pumpkin or just some slop from assembly. Fingers crossed :thumb: :thumb: One leak down one to go.
I sent you a PM with the fix👍

Offline lucian

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2022, 03:54:20 PM »
Engine out today, fortunately everything came apart as it should. No seized studs or surprises. Not bad for an 08.  Leak as suspected is from bottom of main bearing flange. Looks like I got one of the early a5 motors with this known problem. Parts on order including new oil seals for rear main and gearbox input. Also need a new swing arm front boot and will throw a new clutch friction plate at it even though the original looks good with 16,000 miles on it.  Hoping the clutch push rod will be the correct length for the new plate, we'll see. All in all, not a horrible job, similar to crabbing a tonti. I love naked bikes for this reason alone.  I must really love this griso as I continue to dive into it despite the setbacks it has dealt me from the start. I did the rollerization at 3,000 miles, greased the swingarm bearings, which were dry, and persevered in correcting a buggered sacred screw after much turmoil . I finely get the fueling perfected and am loving the bike and it starts dropping oil out the bell housing . :violent1:  Never been a quitter and no sense starting now!  The price we pay sometimes. :laugh:
A few pics :










Offline lucian

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2022, 02:08:22 PM »
more findings. The bottom flange bolts are not too long and don't bottom out in the block.






  The cause of the oil weep is that all eight flange bolts were just FINGER TIGHT!!! I backed them all out with just a socket on an extension by hand. Seems Luige must have misplaced his torque wrench Perhaps they all loosened over time I don't know. The bolts had wave washers and no Loctite. The other odd thing is that the service manual calls for the two bottom bolts to be Teflon taped to prevent leaking, there was none, however the threaded holes do not go all the way through the block . At this point I will pull the flange to make sure the oil feed dowel is not bottoming out and remove the gasket and go with the three bond. Also, I think I should loose the wave washers and get some 8mm Schnorr type locks and perhaps some blue lock tight. I probably could just torque the bolts up and the leaking would stop but would hate to find out the hard way that it didn't :laugh:
« Last Edit: September 05, 2022, 02:22:24 PM by lucian »

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2022, 02:37:28 PM »
I heard of another A5 that was just like yours, bolts all loose and the right size. Might have been a bike Pete was working on. Wave washers are OK but the others are more gooder. (just for the grammar nerds).
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2022, 03:50:58 PM »
I wouldn't use schnorr washers - they're really made for harder materials, not aluminum. I had some embed themselves into the rear main flange, leaving the bolts only slightly more than finger tight. DIN137 B wave washers and low-strength thread locker is what I've used since.
Charlie

Offline lucian

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2022, 04:44:09 PM »
I wouldn't use schnorr washers - they're really made for harder materials, not aluminum. I had some embed themselves into the rear main flange, leaving the bolts only slightly more than finger tight. DIN137 B wave washers and low-strength thread locker is what I've used since.
Thanks Charlie, I've been reading some accounts of the o ring groove for the oil dowel being machined either too shallow causing damage to the o ring , or too deep preventing a good seal. When I get to pulling the flange I guess the condition of the o ring will tell the tale. I'm hoping I can source a proper size o ring locally at Napa maybe.

Offline leafman60

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2022, 06:01:55 PM »
That sure is a nice white Le Mans over there in the corner!!  :wink:

.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2022, 06:03:10 PM by leafman60 »

Offline lucian

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2022, 06:33:57 PM »
That sure is a nice white Le Mans over there in the corner!!  :wink:
 :grin: Thanks buddy, sure glad I have it now that the mighty griso is down. Hope your enjoying your new Griso, it's a thing of beauty and the later models are  bullet proof compared to the early A5 donks.  :thumb:

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2022, 06:49:48 PM »
Quote
Make sure any dwarf from the filing is rinsed out of the gallery

You might know that Pete would put in a plug for his midget wrestling ring..  :grin:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline Bulldog9

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2022, 05:35:29 AM »
I wouldn't use schnorr washers - they're really made for harder materials, not aluminum. I had some embed themselves into the rear main flange, leaving the bolts only slightly more than finger tight. DIN137 B wave washers and low-strength thread locker is what I've used since.

Took the words out of my mouth. Wave washers and loctite will work fine.

Lucian, you are braver than I am.  I've yet to 'crab' one of my Guzzi's and hope not to have to, at least till I retire and get myself into a decent garage setting.  The Griso is worth the attention! Glad it is an easy fix and caught. Scary thinking about finger tight bolts on a motor........
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2022, 07:18:45 AM »
Not to worry, Lucian. It is just testing you to make sure you are worthy.  :smiley: "You've got this.."  :thumb:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline lucian

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2022, 06:19:33 PM »
Success,  had a chance to get things back together today. Gave it a good test ride and all checked out with no more oil drip from clutch housing. Thank you Steve . Charlie ,Pete for the guidance and Chuck for the vote of confidence.  The good part of this engine out job is that it provided an opportunity to do all the little stuff that needed doing while the bike was  torn to bits.  On an 08 the list was fairly long. The flange repair was straightforward as the bolts and oil dowel were all the proper length. No filing or sourcing shorter bolts required.  I replaced the crank main seal and went with the three bond instead of a gasket as the pro's suggested. New stainless wave washers and blue locktight on the eight bolts and also RTV on the bottom two bolts. I replaced the the clutch friction disc but probably didn't need to. The original was not oil fouled and measured 6.5mm thick as did the new one. Not bad for 16,000 miles. I deglazed both clutch plates with a 120 grit pad on a die grinder and always wipe down all plates with acetone before assembly. Other repairs included a new front carc boot, greasing swingarm bearings and suspension dogbone needle bearings, cleaning throttle bodies and replacing intake gaskets and all exhaust gaskets. It also needed both breather hoses from the heads replaced as I had trimmed the ends back a couple of times when they had cracked under the clamps and leaked. I found the $41.00 each oem price a little much so I went on a quest to find a proper hose material that I could form the sharp bends in. I'll go over that in another thread.  In addition, Every electrical connection was given a squirt of Deoxit , and every fastener was neversiezed before being re installed.  I am really happy with this griso despite the few setbacks it has dealt. It is a remarkably robust design and seems to continue to make me want to stay connected with it.  a couple pics





Offline guzzisteve

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2022, 06:35:04 PM »
Cool, turned out good.
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2022, 07:11:42 AM »
Attaboy.. :thumb:
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Offline Muzz

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2022, 03:39:42 AM »
I like it when a plan comes together. :thumb: :thumb:
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Offline lucian

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2022, 06:36:37 AM »
I'd have to say, me and this griso are good buddies again. Took it last night for a spirited 20 miles and came home and parked it with a clean piece of cardboard underneath. What a good feeling to find no drips this morning. Just another chapter of an unfinished story I'm sure, but for now all is good again. Thanks to all.

Offline Stratodisaster

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Re: drip from clutch housing griso update
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2022, 05:01:35 PM »
Smell or taste that oil It might be gear oil. Either way replace the 2 seals on the clutch rod while it’s out.
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