Gear oil amount for V7 II

[lorengo70]

Hi all,

Just did the 20k km fluids change (gear oil and transmission oil). When I drained the gear oil, about 400 ML came out. When it came to fill it up, the manual says to fill it up to the top of the filler cap. So, I assumed that it should take about the same amount as what came out (i.e. About 400 ML). Thing is, i poured the whole liter bottle and it didnt even got to the top of filler hole level.  What am i doing wrong? Could over filling it cause a problem?

Looking forward to your comments and thanks in advance for your help (andsorry for the noob question). Btw, bike is a V7 II

Cheers.

[Darren Williams]

Bike held vertical, not on side stand? Are you sure you are using the correct fill level hole?

[lorengo70]

Hi Darren,

Bike on side stand but side stand propped up with a piece of wood so as to be almost even. Filler hole is the big hex one (as shown in manual). By reading some of the other previous threads regarding this topic I see that some people have mentioned putting in a litre in the V7 but that the V7 II takes 500ML. Not sure what's right as the manual doesn't specify quantity. Just the says fill to top of filler cap.

Thanks for your response. Not sure what the answer to this Cadbury mystery is. Hope I get the answer soon as I am planning on riding from Toronto to Boston this weekend and don't wanna do the trip while being paranoid about haven't screwed something up.

Cheers

[oldbike54]

 Could you be confusing the nomenclature . The manual calls what we would call the transmission the gearbox , and what we would call the gearbox the transmission . Yes , the "transmission" holds 500 ML , unlike the older models which held a liter .

 Dusty

[guzzisteve]

I'm sorry but WOW. You can't make this S?%T up.

[MMRanch]

Lorengo

I just did my 600 mile change ... very confusing isn't it !    Bottom line  ,  the rear wheel take 170 ml according to the book (fill till it comes out) .     The transmission next to the motor takes 500 ml.  I put 600 myself just because I wanted to (V-7 II).   

 

[lorengo70]

Mmranch,

Just to clarify, transmission was no problem. Fliiled it up about 150 ml or so till it overflowed on fill hole. Gear is the problem. MG manual does not specify amount. From what I gathered from your response (and others) is that 500 ml is what needs to be filled with on aV7 II. Still why the heck does it not just say (500ml) that and instead says fill to top of filling hole? Ok, I understand it's a guzzi and manuals are not to be followed 'faithfully'. So, question now is, I put a litre of oil into the gear box that supposedly takes 500 ml. Would the rest get spat out through some sort of vent hole or do I need to pump some of that oil out?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

[pete roper]

Yes, and if you're really lucky it will blow and front or rear seal into the bargain. For the bloke who put in 600ml 'Just Because' at least 100ml of that will shortly be decorating the outside of the bike. Drain 100ml out.

No Steve, you wouldn't of thought it possible would you?

Pete

[MMRanch]

Lorengo

How about we call the one by the motor that contains the gears "Transmission" and the one at the rear wheel that changes the direction of the power "Differential" .   

Look on page 204 of the book that came with the bike .   It calls both of them transmissions ??? 

1cc = 1ml  FYI

I would drain the 1000 ml you put in and only put back in the big half of it ,  Now that ya know how to drain it ,  there ain't nothing to it !  Mine only had 400 ml in it to begin with , maybe I will drain that extra 100 ml out of it ? . 

[SportsterDoc]

The service manual does specify quantities (see attached photo).
This photo is from manual 2Q000105 (available online) page 12/280 for V7 II ABS.

Engine oil, 10W60 SG, 2 liters, which is a perfect fill after a good drain and filter replacement.

Gearbox (6 speed) oil, 75W-90, 500 cc specified,  but may cause puking from top vent at high speeds, even in mild temperatures.   When mentioned puking to dealer, only 400 cc used for first service, since only 400 drained out (bike level, prolonged drain time) after puking, at 811 miles.   For second service, at 4683 miles, I used 450 cc and no puking, even at 116 F ambient.

Trans (hub) oil, 85w-140, 170 cc specified.   I measured out 175 cc, filled until drain at 9 o'clock started to overflow (bike level).   Top vent wept a bit crusing at hot ambient.   Will measure out only 170 cc, next time.

Bike now has 5500 miles at 6 months in service.

[SportsterDoc]

How about we call the one by the motor that contains the gears "Transmission" and the one at the rear wheel that changes the direction of the power "Differential".

After 7 Hondas, 4 Yamahas, 2 Harleys, 1 Triumph, your comment is logical, but not applicable in the MG world.

In MG speak, the 6 speed transmission is a "gear box" and the rear hub is a "transmission"

[SportsterDoc]

I would drain the 1000 ml you put in and only put back in the big half of it ,  Now that ya know how there ain't nothing to it ! 

Yes

[SportsterDoc]

...For the bloke who put in 600ml 'Just Because' at least 100ml of that will shortly be decorating the outside of the bike. Drain 100ml out.

At least 100, maybe even 150

[pete roper]

Lorengo

How about we call the one by the motor that contains the gears "Transmission" and the one at the rear wheel that changes the direction of the power "Differential" .   

Look on page 204 of the book that came with the bike .   It calls both of them transmissions ??? 

1cc = 1ml  FYI

I would drain the 1000 ml you put in and only put back in the big half of it ,  Now that ya know how there ain't nothing to it ! 

For the very good reason it isn't a differential! A motorbike is a single track vehicle, it doesn't have a differential because there is no second track to differentiate against! Just call it the final drive or bevel box.

[SportsterDoc]

More pages from the manual

[MMRanch]

makes sense !     I'll drain it tomorrow and only put back 450 of it .    I can picture all that thick oil churning up and gurgling around inside the gearbox  ---- seems like strait 50W might be better but I've got a 2 year guarantee to keep up so what it calls for will be what it gets .   

Is it necessary to get a Service Manual ?

[pete roper]

Given the gearbox is pressure fed I'd stick with the factory recommended weight.

[SportsterDoc]

A motorbike is a single track vehicle, it doesn't have a differential because there is no second track to differentiate against!

True and MG calls it a transmission (which is also in the manual for the gear box...however, both transmit power) and internally refers to bevel gears (manual page 192).

[SportsterDoc]

Is it necessary to get a Service Manual ?

Highly recommended, but available on-line

Don't recall if this was the link:  https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1153717/Moto-Guzzi-V7-Ii-Abs.html

If that does not work, this is inexpensive:  https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=75610

Some words/phrases are still in Italian (example on page 195), but that just makes it fun.   If you can read Spanish, Italian is generally understandable.

[SportsterDoc]

Manual has lots of handy info, for which the owners book (thick book, very fine print) has somewhat limited info.



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[SportsterDoc]

Given the gearbox is pressure fed I'd stick with the factory recommended weight.

That is a safe response.
It will self-level, thanks to the top vent...but a bit messy.
After it self levels, measure the amount drained at the next service and then replace that amount.

[ITSec]

makes sense !     I'll drain it tomorrow and only put back 450 of it .    I can picture all that thick oil churning up and gurgling around inside the gearbox  ---- seems like strait 50W might be better but I've got a 2 year guarantee to keep up so what it calls for will be what it gets .   

Is it necessary to get a Service Manual ?

Straight 50W would be AWFUL for that gearbox. You need a lubricant designed for use on the kind of gears that are in the gearbox, and what is spec'ed is what you need. You can use a slightly broader range lube, such as Mobil1 75w90 in the gearbox, but don't use anything that isn't a true gear oil. This way lies madness.

You don't fill it to the top of the hole, but to the threads at the bottom. Marvelously and strangely, I'd bet that results in between 450-500 ml/cc being installed - depending on how thorough your draining was (and it never is as much as you think).

A service manual is always good even if you don't do your own servicing - it helps you understand what the tech/mechanic is saying.

[SportsterDoc]

Comments from my second service:

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=91613.msg1446527#msg1446527

Engine fluid was darker than out of the bottle, but still Motoul red.   No sediment in drain pan. Probably could have gone another 2,000 miles, per change schedule of 6,200 miles, but better if only another 1,000 miles for a 5,000 mile change interval, especially after many high speed runs and high ambient temperatures.

Gearbox fluid was very dark, but no sediment in the drain plug screen or drain pan.   I am a skeptic about the recommended 37,300 mile change interval.

Trans/hub fluid was very dark, but no sediment in the drain pan.   I am a skeptic about the recommended 12,400 mile change interval.

Probably will change all 3 at perhaps 9,000 miles on the odometer, ~ 4,400 miles from now.

Opinion: After first fluid change, consider 5,000 mile intervals for all three fluids.

[SportsterDoc]

Straight 50W would be AWFUL for that gearbox. You need a lubricant designed for use on the kind of gears that are in the gearbox, and what is spec'ed is what you need. You can use a slightly broader range lube, such as Mobil1 75w90 in the gearbox, but don't use anything that isn't a true gear oil.

Motoul makes a very good 75w-90, which is specified.
$24 a liter from dealer, but that is enough for two changes.

[SportsterDoc]

You don't fill it to the top of the hole, but to the threads at the bottom. Marvelously and strangely, I'd bet that results in between 450-500 ml/cc being installed - depending on how thorough your draining was (and it never is as much as you think).

Maybe I misunderstood comment, but there is no level port, as on the transmission (rear hub) on a V7 II.
Specified fluid is added and no way to check level.
See manual pages 53 and 54, previously posted.

[SportsterDoc]

A service manual is always good even if you don't do your own servicing - it helps you understand what the tech/mechanic is saying.

Very true.   Tis wise to double check any service suggestions.

[ITSec]

Motoul makes a very good 75w-90, which is specified.
$24 a liter from dealer, but that is enough for two changes.

We are in violent agreement.

My Breva 750 (still not so different in this, other than fluid capacities), was specified with 80w90 in the gearbox (for straight-cut gears) and 85w140 in the final drive (for bevel-cut gears). Motul makes fine products and there's nothing wrong with using that - but it is not always readily available. Mobil1 75w90 and 85w140 are easily found in almost any Autozone/PepBoys/etc, and meet the specs for both straight and bevel gears. It's just a valid alternative. Others include Valvoline etc., but buyers should check the grade certifications for any gear oil, since they can be a bit tricky. It's a step fussier than engine oil.

And of course, in the red suspender tradition, the Mobil1 is cheaper at about $10-12 a liter. (suspender snap!) 

[ITSec]

Maybe I misunderstood comment, but there is no level port, as on the transmission (rear hub) on a V7 II.
Specified fluid is added and no way to check level.
See manual pages 53 and 54, previously posted.

I haven't looked at a V7II recently, but I though it still had the main plug (allen hex) on the side of the gearbox where you both fill it and check level (by filling it till it starts to run over the threads, if the bike is level). If so, that's what I was talking about. If they designed this out, that is certainly a disservice to owners.

The design with a breather (top), drain (bottom), and fill (side) has worked very well for Guzzis for decades...

[SportsterDoc]

We are in violent agreement.

My Breva 750 (still not so different in this, other than fluid capacities), was specified with 80w90 in the gearbox (for straight-cut gears) and 85w140 in the final drive (for bevel-cut gears). Motul makes fine products and there's nothing wrong with using that - but it is not always readily available.

Violently disagreeing with Motoul or 75W-90?
http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=75618 (interesting comments on this page)

Update 29 Nov 2019, thanks to Kiwi Roy.
Although there is accurate info in the first level of the above link
A secondary link has erronous info on the 6th / last page of this secondary link
Click here for an Oil Change / Oil Level Check How-To.

DO NOT FILL AS INDICATED IN THAT LINK. DO NOT FILL WITH MORE THAN 500 cc.

Does your Breva have a 6 speed gearbox?   Does it have forced circulation with lobe pump?





upload multiple image

[SportsterDoc]

I haven't looked at a V7II recently, but I though it still had the main plug (allen hex) on the side of the gearbox where you both fill it and check level (by filling it till it starts to run over the threads, if the bike is level). If so, that's what I was talking about. If they designed this out, that is certainly a disservice to owners.

The design with a breather (top), drain (bottom), and fill (side) has worked very well for Guzzis for decades...

Yep, a side plug would have been appreciated on the 6 speed gearbox!   Still has it on V7 II transmission.