Monza annual inspection

[Chuck in Indiana]

Here, Tylon's showing the plug for the regulator that you have to wrestle out and give it the DeOxit treatment..You can also see the other vent of the stupid expletive deleted Garden Tractor Battery Vent that spews acid fumes toward the regulator.
2017-03-15_11-01-25 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
(dang it, get back to work, kid) 
The last thing will be the battery ground that hides back behind the battery, and is behind the nut that mounts the rear of the brake master cylinder. There are a couple of other grounds that terminate there on the small blocks, too.. pay attention. 
2017-03-15_11-00-58 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Tweeeeet! Lunch whistle. Total time so far? About 3 hours.
Back later..

[Groover]

I think Tylon just gave us all the middle finger..

[Unkept]

Excellent documentation Chuck! I love this kind of thing, I was I was there with Tylon.

Though how he got so far never knowing what a piston was....?!?!?! 

[Lannis]

This is a very inspiring thread for a couple of reasons.

One is that I always wished I had the discipline and energy to treat my motorcycle engines the same as I would treat an aircraft engine, because the price of failure could be the same for both.   You'd always THINK it would be worse for an airplane - until you see a video of a head-up pilot whose light aircraft engine has failed, and he finds a place to land the airplane and gets out and calls someone....

....And then compare that to riding on an interstate in the rain or fog, passing a truck with another one RIGHT behind you in the left lane, crossing a bridge with no shoulder, and the engine quits ....  Could be EQUALLY serious with an airplane engine stopping, except there's no safe place to land and no one expects you to be suddenly stopping on the interstate ...

Also, when I go to one of the national Air and Space Museums, and look at some of those mechanical works of art from Pratt&Whitney and Curtiss Wright and Continental and Lycoming on stands where you can see every nut and bolt and safety wire, and imagine to yourself "Why couldn't I have an engine of that quality and reliability on my MOTORCYCLE if I were willing to pay the price?"

Your mechanical threads like this one make clear that you CAN.   Take a well-designed motorcycle engine (like a Guzzi, but almost any major manufacturer has them), CAREFULLY overhaul and hand-assemble it, and then maintain it like (as you say) your life depended on it .... !

Lannis

[John A]

It's that keeping the chips to a minimum I have a problem with. No doubt, the gears will grind them up, but I'd feel better with a transmission drain, flush, and refill..

It's easy to do with zero chips, once you see it you'll agree. If there was an errant chip it would be retained in that cavity, a natural little breather box. I use a q tip for final cleanup. It's brilliant , I told Dave he should have gotten a Nobel prize. He thought the factory would have used it. I fill my transmission to the level hole on the side stand with no leakage

[Chuck in Indiana]

It's easy to do with zero chips, once you see it you'll agree. If there was an errant chip it would be retained in that cavity, a natural little breather box. I use a q tip for final cleanup. It's brilliant , I told Dave he should have gotten a Nobel prize. He thought the factory would have used it. I fill my transmission to the level hole on the side stand with no leakage

Ok, John.. you've brow beat me into doing it. 

[John A]

Your fifth gear will love you for it 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Excellent documentation Chuck! I love this kind of thing, I was I was there with Tylon.

Though how he got so far never knowing what a piston was....?!?!?! 

Hi, Joe! Hope things are well with you guys. Tylon had a couple of years of computer/cnc in high school, but no and I mean *no* mechanical training. I would never have hired him to do the CNC work, but Ed the Rocket Scientist did. Ed says he's really good with customers. I told Ed I'd train him, and it was a struggle at first, but he's getting it, finally.
Take care, and hug the Hobbit for me.   

[Chuck in Indiana]

Lannis sed

pilot whose light aircraft engine has failed, and he finds a place to land the airplane and gets out and calls someone....

That was my point when I said a motorcycle can kill ya a lot faster than an airplane.  Having a sudden mechanical or electrical problem with a bike can range anywhere from no big deal, really.. to "Sh!t"  That's the most common last word on recovered flight data recorders..

[Chuck in Indiana]

Back at it. Pulled the battery tray and hold down stuff for bead blast, chromate, paint. Grumble grumble some more.
2017-03-15_04-12-41 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Strangely enough, there was only one other ground wire behind the battery negative. There were two on the Lario. Shined them up.
2017-03-15_04-12-16 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Dug out a couple of star washers just like you use on airplanes, some of Kiwi Roy's favorite spooge, 
2017-03-15_04-11-53 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
And should never have a main ground problem.
2017-03-15_04-11-27 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
While we're there, might as well DeOxit the neutral switch wire beside the Vaseline jar, and run a cloth down the clutch cable to find any broken strands in it. There weren't any.
Might as well clean up with some Stoddard solvent in my antique (naturally) Sure shot sprayer, salvaged from the dumpster at work because some clueless engineer threw it away. A 25 cent O ring fixed it, of course. 
2017-03-15_04-11-10 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
While we're there, a drop of MMO on the clutch arm pivot will keep it from freezing up some day, and the shift linkage could use a little too.
2017-03-15_04-10-56 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Started pulling all electrical connections apart and De Oxiting them. Showed Tylon the occasional green pin/sockets that were just waiting for that dark rainy night to make themselves known. 
2017-03-15_04-10-13 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

[Chuck in Indiana]

Unbolted the Weird Harold start relay and gave it the.. oh you know the drill by now..
2017-03-15_04-10-38 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
along with the other two relays.
Here's another electrical failure waiting to happen. "I'm tellin ya, Fred.. them Guzzis just ain't no good. They break down all the time.."
2017-03-15_04-09-48 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
DeOxit to the rescue..
Showed Tylon how you could get rid of rust by using aluminum foil and water. He was amazed. I think he may have some Harley genes, had a hard time getting him to quit polishing and get back to work. 
2017-03-15_04-09-34 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Among the worthwhile mods the original owner did was to put dual banjos on the carbs.
2017-03-15_04-09-12 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
The fuel lines are getting hard, though, so it'll get new ones when we start on the fuel system.
Here's the bearing mod to get rid of the loose ball bicycle type steering head bearings. I had a MKIII and didn't really have a problem with them, but apparently the original owner did.
2017-03-15_04-08-48 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Just took this picture so I'd remember which fuse went where. I'm old.. This will be the last thing on the electrical system until I take off the fairing, and do the wiring/ignition switch.
2017-03-15_04-08-27 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Here's what the back of the fuse block looks like..
2017-03-15_04-08-05 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Needless to say, each connector was pulled and cleaned.
Before.
2017-03-15_04-07-43 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Wire brushed, and waiting for new fuses.
2017-03-15_04-07-18 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Why didn't I replace all this stuff with modern ATO fuses? I'm basically lazy.. and.. this stuff is perfectly adequate if you keep it clean and maintained. <shrug>
Tweeeet! Quitting whistle. It's officially beer o'clock. That makes 6 hours total now..

[nobleswood]

Chuck,

you do such a clear & thorough job of documenting the tasks you take on even my wife complimented your posts. She who does not ride nor share my joy of working with mechanical things.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck,

you do such a clear & thorough job of documenting the tasks you take on even my wife complimented your posts. She who does not ride nor share my joy of working with mechanical things.

Thanks, Tim. I've found that a picture really *does* equal a thousand words sometimes. I've always been self taught by reading the manual.. but early on when I read, "Naturally, you will discombulate the thrunge washer after replacing the muffler bearing.." I often thought, "Now.. WTF does the thrunge washer *look like* so I can figure out how it is discombulated??" 
Working with a kid that doesn't know a piston from a valve spring is a perfect example.. he's a good boy, and bright, but ignorant. Ignorance can be cured, but stupid is forever..

[Chuck in Indiana]

Good stuff!

I have gone to a progressive system where I brake up the inspection to 3 or 4 sessions. Engine, then frame stuff and then electrical.
My three machines are sorta spread out (locations).

Thanks for posting, picked up a couple of areas I should address.

Thanks, Mike.. Like an airplane, the *first* annual inspection is anal retentively comprehensive..  After that, you pretty well know what is there, and can do the routine stuff each year. At least, that's what has been been working for me for the last.. uh..45 (!) years..

[Lannis]

Thanks, Mike.. Like an airplane, the *first* annual inspection is anal retentively comprehensive..  After that, you pretty well know what is there, and can do the routine stuff each year. At least, that's what has been been working for me for the last.. uh..45 (!) years..

So you've been deep into aero engines, and deep into Moto Guzzi engines.

What's the difference between the way that an aero-ready Lycoming or Continental or even a Rotax engine for a light plane or experimental, and a Guzzi motorcycle engine is made, assembled, and wired?

Do airplane engines use the same kind of batteries, the same gauge of wire, the same type of connectors and relays etc as our motorcycle engines do?   Are they made  out of the same sort of material?

In other words, is the difference in quality of assembly and maintenance or is it in the design and materials?

Lannis

[Chuck in Indiana]

The output this morning..
2017-03-16_11-12-24 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Bead blasted, masked, primed and painted the acid damage on the battery tray and hold down strap. Anyone want to buy a Garden Tractor Battery cheap? (I sure miss my temporary paint booth that I had for 15 years)
Kirby 1923 brought up a point that I hadn't really thought about. The electrical systems of the small block and big block of that era are essentially the same. One thing that *needs* to be addressed is the ignition switch. We'll get to that, yet.

[Chuck in Indiana]

So you've been deep into aero engines, and deep into Moto Guzzi engines.

What's the difference between the way that an aero-ready Lycoming or Continental or even a Rotax engine for a light plane or experimental, and a Guzzi motorcycle engine is made, assembled, and wired?

Do airplane engines use the same kind of batteries, the same gauge of wire, the same type of connectors and relays etc as our motorcycle engines do?   Are they made  out of the same sort of material?

In other words, is the difference in quality of assembly and maintenance or is it in the design and materials?

Lannis

Lannis, one of the things that attracted me to Guzzis was when I first saw one apart. I thought, "horry carp.. that's every bit as substantial as an aircraft engine."
Airplanes by design are extremely simple (except for helicopters, which are the work of the devil)  machines. About anything that can fail is done without. Of course, I only fool with antiques and homebuilts with the occasional spam can thrown in, but relays, for instance, are failure prone. There will normally be a big hunker switch. Wiring is the same gauge, but much higher quality and abrasion resistance.  Connectors are the same type, but better quality. Circuit breakers instead of fuses. Batteries are stupid lead acid.. they are type certificated, and can't be changed from the original design of (probably) the 40s or 50s without a write off from the FAA. (Supplemental Type Certificate) so they suck. Expensive, and last for a couple of years if you're lucky. Some people.. I wouldn't know who.. illegally install an Odyssey for trouble free service, though. <whistling> The Odyssey *is* STCed on some aircraft, but getting an STC is fabulously expensive. There used to be "field approvals" done by FAA agents, but in today's litigious society it, for all practical purposes, doesn't happen. 
Design and materials? Actually, they are top notch, if old fashioned by design.

[lucian]

Great and useful  thread Chuck , and good of you to give Tylon an opportunity to learn and us as well.  I'm sure my daughters v50 needs much the same treatment so will be following along. Thanks for taking the time Oh , and something about rubbing chrome with a ball of tin foil makes my teeth hurt. 

[Lannis]

Design and materials? Actually, they are top notch, if old fashioned by design.

Thanks (and to kirby) for that.

That's one reason that 3 of my motorcycles have magnetos, which I have no intention of converting to an "electronic" system requiring a battery.   Once they're rebuilt and the brushes cleaned occasionally, they're the most trouble free ignition I've got ....

Lannis

[Chuck in Indiana]

Lannis, I'm sure that since you are riding those old Beezers cross country, you take as much care as I do.  And yes, while magnetos may not put out a very hot spark.. aircraft plugs are generally around .018" gap.. they'll do it indefinitely, and when they *really* get tired, they'll talk to you.
Modern electronic ignition will easily jump a .045" gap, and can have all sorts of magical things to do with timing, and seldom fail. What they don't do, however, is talk to you.  They'll be humming along, just like normal and then..... nothing.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ok, let's finish up the electrical system.
Anti seize on the plugs. This is a case of if a little is good, a lot is *not* better.  Be careful to not let it get beyond the first thread, or you'll have a mysteriously dead plug down the road. No need for a fancy torque wrench to install new plugs. Just bring it down to the crush washer and give it 3/4 of a turn.
2017-03-16_05-02-25 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Uh oh. Two angle drives, both of them cracked. They're cheap, only $34.78 from Cheesehead and Gordon, but if I leave them alone, they'll probably be fine for years.
2017-03-16_05-02-00 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Occasionally, a guy is better off not to mess with stuff.. 
Lets' get the ignition switch out. It's only held in with a plastic unobtainium nut.
2017-03-16_05-01-37 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Need I say more? 
Here's power to the whole bike. They are just bullet connectors, so take a picture so you know which one goes where. I put a red mark by the red wire.. take your duckbills and pull them out.
2017-03-16_05-01-20 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Come up with a way of holding the switch without damaging it. I used a pair of V blocks just like machinists use. You could make something out of wood, or whatever you have laying around if you are short on V blocks. 
2017-03-16_05-01-03 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

[Chuck in Indiana]

Carefully pry up the three tabs.
2017-03-16_05-00-29 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
No need to mark how it goes together, it will only go one way. There is a *little* spring pressure, but not enough to be concerned with.
This one is in pretty good shape, but has dried up grease that will eventually cause an open or intermittent circuit. "I'm tellin you, Jethro.. you just cain't trust one of them Guzzis. Mine quit on me twicet on the way home..there must be something wrong with a carburator."
2017-03-16_05-00-07 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Clean off the old grease, and brighten up the contacts with your brass or stainless toothbrush.
2017-03-16_04-59-44 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Apply fresh Vaseline, and put it back together. No need to cave man it. Just tap the tabs back over. Spring pressure will want to hold it apart, so gently squeezing each in a vise with square jaws, or carefully peening them down until they quit moving is all that is necessary.
2017-03-16_04-59-17 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
DeOxit the bullet connectors.. sounds like a broken record, doesn't it? put em back in and slide the boot back up on it.
2017-03-16_04-58-54 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Careful you don't cross thread the unobtainium plastic nut, and "King, this case is closed."  It took all of 25 minutes including taking pictures. Nothing to it. People b bb bbbuy new ignition switches (Guzzi content) when all they need is cleaning.
Removing the two screws here gives you access to DeOxit the panel light connectors.
2017-03-16_04-58-28 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
That's it for the electrical system. It's about as close to new as a 35 year old machine will be..
Tweeeet! Beer o'clock.

[Groover]

Nice job! I didn't think to open the switch on mine like that, but definitely a great idea and will do that to mine too.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Nice job! I didn't think to open the switch on mine like that, but definitely a great idea and will do that to mine too.

Cool. Saving Guzzi Guys (and girls) money and aggravation.. that's what I do. 
"Jethro, you ever get that Guzzi running?" "Naw, I sold it to some sucker in Indiana for 500 bucks. What a POS." 

[Matteo]

Thanks Chuck, gonna bookmark this one 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks Chuck, gonna bookmark this one 

That makes it worthwhile. Thank YOU. 
Stay tuned. Don't touch that dial! Same bat time! Same bat channel!
Uh oh.. here come my handlers

[Lannis]

You're not going to take apart all those electrical connections again in 12 months, are you?

Careful is good, but .... ?

Lannis

[SED]

This one is in pretty good shape, but has dried up grease that will eventually cause an open or intermittent circuit.

Thanks Chuck.  Great thread.  (love the photos)  I've got a Monza and LMIII that both need this treatment.  Will do.

Got to find DeOxit.

[Chuck in Indiana]

You're not going to take apart all those electrical connections again in 12 months, are you?

Careful is good, but .... ?

Lannis

No. As I mentioned earlier in the thread.. the *first* inspection is the anal one. There would be no point in doing this again for several years. Once the electrical, mechanical, and fuel systems have been made "like new," next year's annual will be an inspection to make sure nothing is changed. Certainly a leak down test, new plugs, and a visual/hands on of cables, fasteners, brake pads, anything that can wear or come loose with vibration would be on the list.
Naturally, some things won't wait. Wheel bearing check at every tire change, spline lube, etc. but that is only part of maintaining a machine.

[John A]

It's much better to do this stuff on the side of the road after a 500 mile day on a poorly maintained two lane hi way 4 miles outside of East Alton, Il . As they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.