Author Topic: V7 Fuel Filter Poll  (Read 850 times)

Online Rich A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3148
V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« on: May 14, 2021, 06:02:41 PM »
I thought it would be useful to see how many failures there have been.

V7III Special 2017. I replaced the filter at about 5000 mi.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 06:05:22 PM by Rich A »

Online Dirk_S

  • www.dirkshearer.com
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1022
  • Doodler of doodles
    • www.DirkShearer.com
  • Location: Dover, New Hampshire, U.S.
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2021, 06:16:20 PM »
2016 V7 II, 24000 miles—no replacement (yet), no failure (yet). Nearly all from standard ethanol “enriched”
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 06:45:02 PM by Dirk_S »
Current: ‘16 Guzzi V7 II Stone

Previous: ‘15 Ural Gear Up, ‘77 Kawasaki KZ400 Special, ‘78 Honda CX500S, ‘80 Honda CX500D, ‘11 Suzuki TU250X

Online twowheeladdict

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5210
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2021, 06:39:26 PM »
2018. 6000 miles no issue. All but a few tanks of gas are 93 non ethanol. The few ethanol tanks were run through in a day or two.
2022 Moto Guzzi V85TT Guardia D'onore
2018 V7 III Carbon Dark #0009 of 1921
2018 Road Glide Special
2021 Kawasaki KLX300SM
2017 Suzuki Van Van 200

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 29967
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2021, 06:48:16 PM »
2013 MkI V7 Stone. Replaced half-plastic filter after ~3-4 years and maybe 15k miles (off top of my head). Filter was swollen but pressure tested to ~120 something psi without rupture/failure.

Only reason I did it was the chatter here about how necessary it was and I was pulling the tank anyway for a necessary regulator repair.

It was a little spongy too IIRC, but not alarmingly and again see pressure test.

In retrospect I had done the same on my Breva 1100 and had just ASSumed I'd saved myself aggravation because it too was swollen. But again IIRC I couldn't pull it apart by hand then (though I didn't think to pressure test it). So doesn't seem likely that it was going to fail either.

It's these anecdotes plus the many who never replace combined with the tails of early failures that fourth the basis for my theory that failures tend to be otherwise defective from factory and that they will tend to happen early. But I freely admit I don't have much data just these observations.

Still in willing to put my money where my mouth is so:

2018 V7III Carbon Dark, maybe 3500 miles over the two and a half years we've had it so far. No plans to do the filter anytime soon or later.

BTW all three bikes got/get pretty much nothing but E10 fuel.
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
16 HD FLHP
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2021, 06:48:16 PM »

oldbike54

  • Guest
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2021, 06:51:10 PM »
 So the five people I personally know who had a filter failure are all imagining being stranded ? Interesting .

 Dusty

Online Rich A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3148
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2021, 06:56:25 PM »
So the five people I personally know who had a filter failure are all imagining being stranded ? Interesting .

 Dusty

CNN, FOX, etc. all say it is too early to call the election.

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 29967
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2021, 07:00:57 PM »
So the five people I personally know who had a filter failure are all imagining being stranded ? Interesting .

 Dusty

Nope, no one is saying that.

If you know their data (model, mileage, etc) add it to the poll. The more data the better right?
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
16 HD FLHP
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

oldbike54

  • Guest
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2021, 07:03:53 PM »
Nope, no one is saying that.

If you know their data (model, mileage, etc) add it to the poll. The more data the better right?

 Two were 2013 SB's , one was a 2015 SB , I'll need to do some digging on the other two . It's real , it happens .

 Dusty

Online Dirk_S

  • www.dirkshearer.com
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1022
  • Doodler of doodles
    • www.DirkShearer.com
  • Location: Dover, New Hampshire, U.S.
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2021, 07:09:06 PM »
I don’t think anyone is questioning whether it happens, but to what extent. Sometimes cautionary tales come off as an apocalyptic inevitability.

I applaud a poll that seeks objectivity / real world observation.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 07:09:27 PM by Dirk_S »
Current: ‘16 Guzzi V7 II Stone

Previous: ‘15 Ural Gear Up, ‘77 Kawasaki KZ400 Special, ‘78 Honda CX500S, ‘80 Honda CX500D, ‘11 Suzuki TU250X

Offline bad Chad

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9240
  • Location: Central Il
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2021, 07:10:41 PM »
I’m planning on changing mine shortly.  6200 miles no issue yet, but I’m speculating that there is at least a 10% chance of future failure, I don’t want to be 600 miles from home if my number comes up! 

I thought stratus interuptis wasn’t going to happen to my Breva, 11 years and tens of thousands of miles and all was good, until it wasn’t.
2007 Breva 1100  Red Arrow (and faster than yours!)
2016 CSC 250TT Zongshen
2017 V9 Roamer

Offline guzzi771

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 204
  • Location: South Austin , Texas
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2021, 07:19:54 PM »
My 2017 V7III  filter failed  at 900 miles

Offline Bulldog9

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2128
  • Location: United States
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2021, 09:55:51 PM »
So the five people I personally know who had a filter failure are all imagining being stranded ? Interesting .

 Dusty

As they all frequent the Bigfoot and Alien threads, this is highly likely.  :evil:
MGNOC#23231
The Living: 1976 Convert, 2007 GRiSO, 2016 Stornello #742, 2008 1200 Sport
The Departed: 2017 MGX, 2014 Norge GT,  In Stasis: 1978 XS750, XS1100SF

oldbike54

  • Guest
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2021, 10:13:07 PM »
As they all frequent the Bigfoot and Alien threads, this is highly likely.  :evil:

 Only one is a member here , I cast a wide net .


 Here is a theory that I have zero evidence to support beyond "it is what it is " We have ready access to non-ethanol fuel here , and all of these guys were fairly diligent in running it . The three SB's were actual physical rescue jobs , all three on their way back from Arkansas where ethanol mix is about all you can find . All three failures occurred on really hot days after the bikes had been left sitting in the Sun while the riders took breaks . None of the bikes were together , but the conditions were all similar . The first two were before we had hashed all of this out on WG , so we assumed it was a fuel line failure , the third happened after we knew what was occurring . The other two bikes were sorted based on me telling the riders over the phone what the problem was , they sorted the bikes on the road , but memory says the conditions were similar . Heat , combined with filters accustomed to straight gasoline now exposed to ethanol , all failed .

 Anyway , you can take what you like from this , but there you have it , five failures .

 Dusty

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 29967
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2021, 10:58:23 PM »
Only one is a member here , I cast a wide net .


 Here is a theory that I have zero evidence to support beyond "it is what it is " We have ready access to non-ethanol fuel here , and all of these guys were fairly diligent in running it . The three SB's were actual physical rescue jobs , all three on their way back from Arkansas where ethanol mix is about all you can find . All three failures occurred on really hot days after the bikes had been left sitting in the Sun while the riders took breaks . None of the bikes were together , but the conditions were all similar . The first two were before we had hashed all of this out on WG , so we assumed it was a fuel line failure , the third happened after we knew what was occurring . The other two bikes were sorted based on me telling the riders over the phone what the problem was , they sorted the bikes on the road , but memory says the conditions were similar . Heat , combined with filters accustomed to straight gasoline now exposed to ethanol , all failed .

 Anyway , you can take what you like from this , but there you have it , five failures .

 Dusty

Maybe...

And maybe this doesn't clash with my theory (of needing a defect from the start).

Maybe it's a combination of defect, plus ethanol, plus heat as catalyst.

The reason I'm wondering about the additional condition of defect is that where I've spent the last few decades it's VERY difficult to get non-ethanol fuel so all my Guzzis have run on mostly ethenol their entire lives. If it was only ethenol and heat they should have all failed (well except the Jackal with the all metal, external filter).

But none failed. Which is one of the reasons I keep looking for another factor.

Just another swag.
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
16 HD FLHP
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

Online Rich A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3148
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2021, 11:02:09 PM »
It would also be helpful to know where the filters failed--was it the barbs (maybe bad crimping) or the metal/plastic joint (mfg defect) or somewhere else (material failure)?

Rich A

oldbike54

  • Guest
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2021, 11:18:06 PM »
It would also be helpful to know where the filters failed--was it the barbs (maybe bad crimping) or the metal/plastic joint (mfg defect) or somewhere else (material failure)?

Rich A

 The three I saw all failed at the metal/plastic joint .

 Dusty

Offline stonelover

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 202
  • Location: Berkeley County, WV
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2021, 08:03:30 AM »
2016 Stone II--13000 miles-No problems-All with 10% ethanol.

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 29967
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2021, 08:47:59 AM »
First, as I said many times, I replaced the filter in my 07' Norge as a preemptive measure. The body was swollen and it is not supposed to be. I made the decision to deal with it.

Jan's 04' Nevada actually failed when we had left the New York rally.

These are both my personal encounters with this issue, although I know of a few others. Yes Kev, only a few, not a bucket load. But still. As I said in the other thread, back when this began to get noticed, someone who was a member on this board did some research and discovered these were never intended to be fully immersed. That was per the maker of the filter. There was speculation, at the time, that they might reformulate the plastic in order to make it submersible. Evidently, that has never happened. Much like we need the proper fuel line and clamps. Plain old fuel line vs. fuel injection line vs. submersible line.

As an aside, I took some time this morning and looked at several owners manuals on the Cadre' Cycle website, only to discover that none of the manuals I looked at called for a filter replacement on the maint. schedule. I looked at a Cal Vintage, Stelvio, Breva 1100, Nevada, and V7III, yet no thinking individual would consider said filter to last forever, right? If we subscribe to your argument, this is a non issue because you tested one filter. You of all people know full well that testing one of anything to postulate a conclusion is flawed simply by numbers. I didn't bother to reference the service manuals.

The plastic piece looks something like a top hat, with the lip and an O ring crimped into the metal portion. If the top hat can flex around the main part of its body, does it not stand to reason that due to lack of rigidity, enough flex might occur to allow the lip to pop out of the crimp? I'm sorry but you are not presenting an alternate point of view. You're simply being a contrarian about this subject.

I have maintained that it is cheaper, easier, and much less aggravating, if you just deal with it. I have been on the side of the road on a Sunday morning far from home with Jan when hers failed. What do you plan to do if you're all alone without tools and the proper supplies to fix it along the road. Are you going to abandon your bike? Hitch hike to a parts store? Are you going to buy a fuel can so you can dump out the gas so you can actually ride off once you get it fixed? Are you going to call a wrecker? None of these scenarios will be cheaper, easier, or less aggravating than what I propose.   

You're acting offended that you replaced them on your bike. So offended in fact that you replaced a second one on a second bike, so it sounds as if you have no desire to be stuck along the side of the road any more than anyone else. You're arguing about 20 bucks and maybe a couple hours of time.

Guzzi771 posted on both of these threads that he has a failure at 900 miles. That is the soonest I have ever heard of. There is obviously no rhyme or reason to why or when you might expect trouble. I had the external filter plug up on my EV. It was running fine as far as I knew until the next time I went to start the bike. Luckily that was at home preparing to leave for a rally. I left the EV, loaded all the gear into Jan's Forrester, and rode the LeMans instead. The point is, it is fine until it is not and there is no a good way to determine if or when you might have trouble. So, I choose to just deal with it. Guzzi is banking on it lasting the duration of the warranty period, so it is a non issue as far as they are concerned. 

It is a cheap, simple thing. Why risk the possibility of being stranded even if the odds are in your favor to ignore it? To me, this is a no brainer. Deal with it or play Russian Roulette. You might never have that cartridge in the chamber line up with the barrel, until it does.

Like I said, I have maintained that it is cheaper, easier, and much less aggravating, if you just deal with it, and if anybody here is worried about 20 bucks and some time, maybe motorcycling is too expensive for them. There are things you cannot control and things you can.

Everyone here has the option to decide for themselves. Eyes wide open and all that...

John Henry     

 

Dude, I'm not the one that's offended judging from the tomb you just wrote and the tone of it.

Let's gather more reports.

Yes fuel filters have largely become considered lifetime components in the industry on EFI vehicles.

Yes this filter seems like a bad idea from the manufactures data.

Yes I replaced two of them, though it seems obvious now that neither was going to fail anytime soon. You see that's what actually changed my mind on the necessity or imminence of the issue.

Early failures are the ones I remember hearing the most. Like one of the members here from FL who bought a new bike from Hamlin and made it only as far as VA.

Anyway you keep harping on me only testing one. But you also act like swollen is enough evidence that it would fail. My counter are reports of others who prophylactically replaced theirs, found it swollen, but we're unable to pull or pry it apart. That's not just one report even if they didn't pressurize it to 120 psi.

Bottom line I'm not offended by anything here. I'm just suggesting the sky is not falling and the risk isn't as high as some seem to suggest.

You do you and replace it, that's cool. I might even replace the one in the III in a few more years if the tank has to come off for any reason. Till then I happily submit myself as a control sample on this experiment.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 08:55:08 AM by Kev m »
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
16 HD FLHP
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

Online Zenermaniac

  • Hatchling
  • **
  • Posts: 113
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2021, 09:11:27 AM »
Replaced my V9 (same filter as V7) at 1400 miles. Plastic half was swollen and very soft. Could have failed at any time. Non-ethanol gas not available in southern Ohio where I live.

oldbike54

  • Guest
Re: V7 Fuel Filter Poll
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2021, 09:34:16 AM »
 Look fellas , I have no idea why this is contentious , there have been failures , it is just easier to deal with at home than on the side of the road . Those are the facts , everything else is just he said/she said . Let's chill , this isn't really worth arguing over . Capeesh ?

 Dusty


Harper's Moto Guzzi : Go Ride , Break Parts, Call me!
Harper's Moto Guzzi. Where we still answer the phone, use the highest quality parts, and also do Transmission, rear drive, and carb rebuilds fast. Call us at 816.697.3411 and get your problems resolved.
http://www.harpermoto.com
Advertise Here
 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler with donation credit
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here