Author Topic: EV Kickstand Switch  (Read 470 times)

Offline LowRyter

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EV Kickstand Switch
« on: December 01, 2021, 12:20:43 PM »
I have a '98 EV California.  Since I purchased it in '07, the kickstand safety switch has been disabled.  I finally ordered a new switch, after the switch was installed the bike dies every time the kickstand is down, even when the bike is in neutral.  This can't be right.  I can't even warm up the bike on the kickstand. 

Any hints what's wrong?
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline Tom H

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2021, 12:29:51 PM »
I think there were two ways the switch was wired or two different switches.

How did you have the switch bypassed? Were the wires twisted together or separate? Could be it needs to be opposite of what the switch does. or maybe the wires are backward.

Is the switch adjusted correctly? Does your neutral light work?

Just a few thoughts,
Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo V1000
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2021, 12:42:15 PM »
The original switch was bypassed.  I was told it didn't work.  The new switched installed and the neutral light does work.  But bike is killed whenever the kickstand is down whether in neutral or not.  It won't start if the kickstand is down.
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline pehayes

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2021, 01:12:40 PM »
after the switch was installed the bike dies every time the kickstand is down

Sorry to report that what you describe is exactly the original design.  Live with it.  There is no interconnect with the transmission as there is on newer bikes.
Yes, you have to put the bike on the centerstand or sit astride it in order to warm it up.   I don't.  I just start and ride away gently for a few blocks.
This is the reason why so many have disconnected that switch.  Still, it is an important safety feature and you should think hard before disconnect.
I had sidestand 'incidents' with an old Eldorado and a Convert.  I've kept my switch intact on both 98EVs.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2021, 01:12:40 PM »

Offline Tom H

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2021, 01:29:19 PM »
Patrick,

Thanks you for clearing that up for me. I thought it worked more like my '04.

Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo V1000
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
1953 Triumph 6T (one day it will be on the road!)

Offline LowRyter

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2021, 01:49:16 PM »
wow

sorry I bought it.  Off it goes. 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 01:53:06 PM by LowRyter »
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline Ncdan

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2021, 01:54:55 PM »
wow
Iím not sure how the 98 is different from my 02 Stone. The stone will idle in Neutral while on the side Stand but if you put it in gear with it still down, the motor dies??
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 03:05:59 PM by Ncdan »

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2021, 02:20:03 PM »
Patrick is the expert when it comes to the 98 EV but I remember something odd about the 98 EV I had
I don't think this schematic was correct for my 98 I'm certain that the Normally closed relay contacts were used on my bike.
 https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1998_EV.gif
If you look at the Relay (36) its labeled the Sidestand relay but its really the Neutral Relay because it's activated by the Neutral switch (13)
The contacts of the relay bypass the side stand switch.
I got so confused that I sat down and sketched out each wire under the side cover

You can see the wire went to the 87A contact of the stand relay whereas Carl's drawing shows it to the 87 contact, I think there must be two versions of 98 EV
Carls also shows the later model small ECU, mine had the old P8

 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 03:06:12 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2021, 03:14:12 PM »
The later Cali's had a extra relay in the mix so to use sidestand. Logic relay or some such thing.

John, why do you think everyone disconnects it. Maybe cause they're not idiots & know how to ride.
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2021, 04:36:38 PM »
G Steve, I don't think anyone wants the bike to be disabled in neutral when it's on the sidestand, just when it's in gear on the sidestand.  The option would be keeping it on the centerstand. 

I've owned the bike since '07, I'll just keep the switch disconnected.  I assumed they were failure item rather than an aggravation item.
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline yogidozer

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2021, 04:42:41 PM »
Roy, any chance the Stone switch would work on EV bikes?
Or maybe the wiring/relay won't allow it?

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2021, 04:45:31 PM »
My Cal2 had one fall apart. Been junk since the beginning on loops & Converts. You should be able to hook up the neutral switch to it so it works like you want it to. AND it doesn't add a relay. Neutral works off ground.
Someone will say how, I can't focus at the moment.

The Stone switch is what the Cali's used after it was used. 98 switches only lasted like 3-4 years. It is actually from a Vespa same switch on all later Cali's. In fact JUNK if wet some ground out the start button. Plastic is better.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 04:51:46 PM by guzzisteve »
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2021, 04:52:00 PM »
I can tell you this, I just can't tell you how to do it. Mine was the same way. My buddy who understands all things electrical sat down and studied the set up as it was. He then drew up a wiring set up using an extra 5 prong relay and the neutral light to make it start on the side stnd. Good luck.
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2021, 05:32:50 PM »
Roy, any chance the Stone switch would work on EV bikes?
Or maybe the wiring/relay won't allow it?

I think that's how the bike is wired.  There needs to be a check against the neutral light that doesn't exist.
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2021, 06:08:38 PM »
Roy, any chance the Stone switch would work on EV bikes?
Or maybe the wiring/relay won't allow it?
I don't know the fine details on the different switches but any switch that operates when the stand is deployed can be used on the EV Normally Open or Normally closed could be used if you change the relay contact. 87 for 87A
If you look at this diagram you can see the switch (38) is open (stand deployed)  The Neutral switch (13) is also open and the relay (36) is de-energised with contact 30 - 87 open, thats the best way IMHO
 https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1998_EV.gif
We know the Neutral switch (13) closes when the box is in Neutral because it has a Neutral light on the dash.
You can figure out that this EV will run on the stand provided its also in Neutral as the power to the kill switch is passing through the relay 30 - 87 contact
If you take the bike out of Neutral the relay will open stopping the engine unless you have the stand folded up Switch (38) not activated, contact closed
----------------------------
If your EV uses the 30 - 87A contact the stand switch needs to be closed when the stand is deployed, its easy to check , just look into the relay socket and see which of the 5 possible socket pins are in place.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 06:50:05 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2021, 09:27:10 PM »
well
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline yogidozer

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2021, 04:52:32 AM »
Thanks for the info Roy. Just saw your reply this morning. I'll check the relay this am.
Pretty sure I have the 30 - 87A. Recently had plug/unplug relays when my horn stopped working.
I beep when I go visit horse farms, bringing them carrots and saying Hello to them  :grin:

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2021, 09:39:32 PM »
Thanks for the info Roy. Just saw your reply this morning. I'll check the relay this am.
Pretty sure I have the 30 - 87A. Recently had plug/unplug relays when my horn stopped working.
I beep when I go visit horse farms, bringing them carrots and saying Hello to them  :grin:
You need the switch that is closed when the stand is deployed then. If you have the other on its easy enough to change from the 87A relay pin to the 87 as Carl's drawing shows.
Out of curiosity which ECU do you have. the P8 Pizza box or the small 15M?
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Offline yogidozer

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2021, 04:51:22 AM »
You need the switch that is closed when the stand is deployed then. If you have the other on its easy enough to change from the 87A relay pin to the 87 as Carl's drawing shows.
Out of curiosity which ECU do you have. the P8 Pizza box or the small 15M?
P8 I'll look through my extra stuff to see if I have an 87. Had to replace a relay on my 95 Spot, not sure which kind.

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2021, 05:58:16 PM »
P8 I'll look through my extra stuff to see if I have an 87. Had to replace a relay on my 95 Spot, not sure which kind.
A 4 pin or a 5 pin relay will have an 87 pin, its the second regular size spade, the top one is 30, the 5 pin relays usually have 30, 87 and 87A the small one between the two coil pins 85 & 86
Seems like yours needs a 5 pin like mine did, I did a quick sketch showing the stand relay, the power goes from the 30 contact at the top through the 87A contact then on to Fuse 1 and the ECU.
If ever you have trouble with the stand or the relay you can always poke a wire in the relay socket 30 to 87A and run without a stand switch.

If the EV is using the 87A contact the 87 socket will be empty, if you want to use that you will have to find another contact and install it, I seem to remember it took me hours to figure out how to get the contacts out.
I suggest you print out the sketch I sent in reply #7, I made that to carry under the side cover, it proved very handy for troubleshooting, shows the main power around the 98 EV
The only thing different is the main fuse I added, see note 3
« Last Edit: December 04, 2021, 06:55:02 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline yogidozer

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2021, 08:58:26 AM »
Roy, your electrical solution gave me a headache  :rolleyes:
But your interest in helping inspired my redneck brain thinking.
Why not just cap off the switch?
Remove the nut holding the switch, hold the switch while loosening.
Replace with an acorn type nut. I put a filler in the nut first.
This was done on my 99 EV, might work on other bikes.




Offline Ncdan

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2021, 10:45:44 AM »
Roy, your electrical solution gave me a headache  :rolleyes:
But your interest in helping inspired my redneck brain thinking.
Why not just cap off the switch?
Remove the nut holding the switch, hold the switch while loosening.
Replace with an acorn type nut. I put a filler in the nut first.
This was done on my 99 EV, might work on other bikes.



So if a switch goes bad on a road trip will this work as a temporary fix?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 11:02:50 AM by Ncdan »

Offline yogidozer

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2021, 05:13:05 PM »
Dan, I bought this EV new in 99. Only bike I ever had or heard of with a side stand shut off.
Over the years got used to it, finally decided to "fix" it.
Switches usually fail with use...on..off..on again.
Believe it is less likely to fail now.
Temporary fix? No, permanent fix.

Offline pehayes

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2021, 10:06:15 PM »
Roy, your electrical solution gave me a headache  :rolleyes:
But your interest in helping inspired my redneck brain thinking.
Why not just cap off the switch?
Remove the nut holding the switch, hold the switch while loosening.
Replace with an acorn type nut. I put a filler in the nut first.
This was done on my 99 EV, might work on other bikes.




Sounds like serious overkill work.  If you're determined to bypass the sidestand switch, just unplug it.  Open circuit is the normal running condition. 

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Offline yogidozer

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2021, 04:47:15 AM »
Sounds like serious overkill work.  If you're determined to bypass the sidestand switch, just unplug it.  Open circuit is the normal running condition. 

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Thought I understood Roy that because of relay explanation, that wouldn't work?
I don't consider changing a nut "serious overkill work" do you?

Online JoeB

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2021, 06:47:05 AM »
FWIW, unplugged mine in 98, ditched the switch, runs fine.
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Offline yogidozer

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2021, 07:10:39 AM »
FWIW, unplugged mine in 98, ditched the switch, runs fine.
Joe, you had to remove the gas tank to unplug it?

Online JoeB

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2021, 03:31:42 PM »
Joe, you had to remove the gas tank to unplug it?
Don't know if you have to, but I remember I did.
I wanted to cover the end of the remaining plug.

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Offline yogidozer

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Re: EV Kickstand Switch
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2021, 03:48:10 PM »
Joe, I didn't need more than two minutes to replace that nut.
Works fine, no more shut down.

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