Author Topic: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners  (Read 554081 times)

beetle

  • Guest
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #510 on: July 13, 2015, 06:31:08 AM »
What do the temperature sensor readings look like in GuzziDiag? With a cold engine, the engine temp should not be more than a few degrees different than ambient. Same with air temp.

Offline canuck1969

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #511 on: July 13, 2015, 10:53:14 AM »
What do the temperature sensor readings look like in GuzziDiag? With a cold engine, the engine temp should not be more than a few degrees different than ambient. Same with air temp.
From cold, air temperature, engine temperature and ambient temperature all read the same (25C) as per guzzidiag.

Posted a video of the guzzidiag readout.  Let the bike warm up to 60C and then captured the following data. First bit is at idle, and then I rev'd it to +/- 3000 rpm and tried my best to hold it there.  Shows the lambda mv readings.  Not really sure what normal is.  They do jump around but for the most part, L1 and L2 are pretty much in sync.  Comments welcome on anything that does not look rights.  If I need to run it again with different parameters please let me know.  Everything seemed to run find at 3000 rpm with not apparent hesitations. 

I also made a copy of the stock map.  Unless we find something out of the ordinary, would appreciate some guidance on getting the Lambda probes disconnected and setting the CO.  At it minimum it will remove them from the equation.

https://youtu.be/ln2H48p4ef8
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 10:53:58 AM by canuck1969 »

Offline toma nova

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 323
  • Location: Houston, USA
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #512 on: July 13, 2015, 11:13:08 AM »

For whatever reason everything seems to point to fueling so might as well turn the lambdas off and see what happens. Any ideas on a start point for the CO reading. I shouldn't need a new map but I am not an expert in this. Need some advise on where to go at this point.


I'm running Beetle's updated map with lambdas off and my CO is +10 to achieve a smooth idle.  I still have some surging 3500-3800 rpms so I mostly just keep the revs above that. Not great for MPGs, but a smoother ride.  I only have 3k miles and need to check valves and TBs but I expect the engine to continue smoothing out as it gets more miles.

I also checked the throttle cables but they were fine.  FYI, I bought my bike from MPH so assume it was correctly set up.

One thing I have noticed is that surging is worst on bumpy roads.  TX uses mostly concrete (as opposed to asphalt) and the seams and construction undulations make it harder to keep a steady throttle hand.  Not an issue if I'm accelerating or braking, but tough to hold a steady speed.  I'm not sure if suspension settings could help but that's an area I need to get into in any case.

Tom
2014 Stelvio NTX
2008 1200 Sport - sold

Offline canuck1969

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #513 on: July 13, 2015, 11:20:03 AM »
One thing I have noticed is that surging is worst on bumpy roads.  TX uses mostly concrete (as opposed to asphalt) and the seams and construction undulations make it harder to keep a steady throttle hand.  Not an issue if I'm accelerating or braking, but tough to hold a steady speed.  I'm not sure if suspension settings could help but that's an area I need to get into in any case.

Tom

Tom, funny you should say that.  That thought did cross my mine as a possible cause.  I did increase  my pre-load on the front forks a bit a while back.  Who knows, it may be as simple as that.  I have seen weirder things happen.  I will keep an eye on it.

Thanks,

Joe

Wildguzzi.com

Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #513 on: July 13, 2015, 11:20:03 AM »

Offline smdl

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1321
  • Location: Courtenay, BC
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #514 on: July 13, 2015, 11:48:00 AM »
I've noticed the difficulty in maintaining smooth throttle over bumps.  It's just that sensitive. 

Shaun
'74 Eldorado Civilian
'17 V7 III Stone
'21 Aprilia Tuono 660
'22 V85TT Guardia D'Onore
'22 V85TT Guardia D'Onore (Yep, two)

Offline canuck1969

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #515 on: July 13, 2015, 04:15:15 PM »
Update.....uploaded stock map with the lambda probes removed.  Set the CO at +1 for no reason other than the idle sounded a "little" better than zero but not a lot. 

Idle is now smooth as butter and there is absolutely no popping on decel.  That alone was worth doing if for as it was driving me absolutely crazy looking for exhaust leaks that were not there.  This has made me a very happy man.

One thing I did notice was as the bike got hotter when I was adjusting the CO levels, I looked at the data screen and one of the probes was registering a mV reading.  It would move between 4 and 9 mv which I am assuming is some transient voltage. The other one was a solid zero.  Will the ECU pick up this value or is it now blind to all lambda readings. 

As for the surging, it is much better but still there at 3000 RPM.  Sounds like this is a norm for the stock map, but for the life of me I can't figure out why it never bugged me before.  I think it is still weather related as it was again a hot and humid day.  I do have to admit that I have been riding more in the heat this year then I have in years past so may just be noticing it more. Will keep looking for something obvious but am happy with the progress we have made thus far.  Perhaps some day I may try modifying the map or trying one that was developed on the forum.

Thanks again for everyones input.

Joe
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 04:16:41 PM by canuck1969 »

Offline JeffOlson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1643
  • Location: Oregon & Washington
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #516 on: July 15, 2015, 12:42:25 PM »
PROBLEM: The IAW5xWriter_V0.21 for Mac OS cannot "see" the .bin file I would like to upload to my Norge's ECU.

I have downloaded the latest reader, writer, and Guzzi Diag programs for the Mac OS for my ECU (5AM), and I have successfully downloaded and saved the stock map using the reader program. However, the writer program cannot "see" and use the .bin file even though I have navigated to its location within the writer program. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
2018 Vespa GTS 300
2016 Moto Guzzi Norge
2015 Vespa Sprint 150
2015 Vespa GTS 300

beetle

  • Guest
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #517 on: July 15, 2015, 03:23:41 PM »
This seems to be a recurring issue with Mac users. Check the file is actually where you think you put it with a file manager. They seem to end up in the Stygian depths of the desktop. I kid you not.

Offline JeffOlson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1643
  • Location: Oregon & Washington
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #518 on: July 15, 2015, 03:29:00 PM »
^ Thanks. I will try moving the file to a new location tonight using the Mac OS Finder and then try navigating to its new location with the writer program.
2018 Vespa GTS 300
2016 Moto Guzzi Norge
2015 Vespa Sprint 150
2015 Vespa GTS 300

beetle

  • Guest
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #519 on: July 15, 2015, 03:41:11 PM »




  Will the ECU pick up this value or is it now blind to all lambda readings. 

As for the surging, it is much better but still there at 3000 RPM.



Joe, when lambda is switched off in the map, the signals are still there, the ECU simply ignores them.

With regard to the surging, did you reset the trims? You will need to.

Offline canuck1969

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #520 on: July 15, 2015, 04:39:51 PM »

Joe, when lambda is switched off in the map, the signals are still there, the ECU simply ignores them.

With regard to the surging, did you reset the trims? You will need to.

The lambda mV readings all said zero when I started the bike.  It was not until the bike became hot (ie. around 90C) that one of the probes was showing some voltage.  As long as the ECU ignores it is is fine, but was strange that it just started up.  It was low reading around 4 to 9  mV.  I chocked it up to transient voltage somewhere.

If you mean did I do the autolearning reset with guzzidiag I did and then the CO trim to +1. It is just a matter of clicking the reset correct?  It did not give me any errors when I did that so I assume it took.   Going to take it out for another ride tonight.  Replaced the spark plugs as a counter measure just in case there was an issue. 

Offline JeffOlson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1643
  • Location: Oregon & Washington
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #521 on: July 15, 2015, 10:42:21 PM »
No luck. My new MacBook has failed me. The writer program cannot locate either my stock map, which I downloaded and saved with the reader program, or the new map Mark sent to me.

I guess I'll need to try an old MacBook that I have stashed away somewhere or [shudder] borrow a PC…

UPDATE: No luck with my old MacBook either. No Guzzi Diag fiddling for me.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 10:57:00 PM by JeffOlson »
2018 Vespa GTS 300
2016 Moto Guzzi Norge
2015 Vespa Sprint 150
2015 Vespa GTS 300

Offline pauldaytona

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2562
    • Paul's fast Guzzi Page
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #522 on: July 16, 2015, 06:20:41 AM »
No luck. My new MacBook has failed me. The writer program cannot locate either my stock map, which I downloaded and saved with the reader program, or the new map Mark sent to me.

I guess I'll need to try an old MacBook that I have stashed away somewhere or [shudder] borrow a PC�

UPDATE: No luck with my old MacBook either. No Guzzi Diag fiddling for me.

and you have the map with .bin extension, sitting in the same place where the reader and writer program are?
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline JeffOlson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1643
  • Location: Oregon & Washington
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #523 on: July 16, 2015, 10:38:24 AM »
^ Yep. The reader program ran just fine and was able to read and download my stock map. (It took about 15 minutes the second time; the first time, it halted mid-way through when I clicked on another program and sent the reader program to the background.) The writer program launches just fine, but it cannot "see" either .bin file, not even the one the reader program created. Perhaps the latest version of the Mac writer program has a glitch in it.
2018 Vespa GTS 300
2016 Moto Guzzi Norge
2015 Vespa Sprint 150
2015 Vespa GTS 300

Offline pauldaytona

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2562
    • Paul's fast Guzzi Page
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #524 on: July 16, 2015, 11:22:19 AM »
^ Yep. The reader program ran just fine and was able to read and download my stock map. (It took about 15 minutes the second time; the first time, it halted mid-way through when I clicked on another program and sent the reader program to the background.) The writer program launches just fine, but it cannot "see" either .bin file, not even the one the reader program created. Perhaps the latest version of the Mac writer program has a glitch in it.
how many kb is the file size? And you didn't have the wrong writer? 5x reader belangs to 5x writer. 15x to 15x
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 11:23:26 AM by pauldaytona »
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline JeffOlson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1643
  • Location: Oregon & Washington
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #525 on: July 16, 2015, 11:57:50 AM »
how many kb is the file size? And you didn't have the wrong writer? 5x reader belangs to 5x writer. 15x to 15x

Mark's file is 328 kb. The write that I have is IAW5xWriter_V0.21. The link is toward the bottom of this page: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/. Perhaps I have the wrong one.
2018 Vespa GTS 300
2016 Moto Guzzi Norge
2015 Vespa Sprint 150
2015 Vespa GTS 300

beetle

  • Guest
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #526 on: July 16, 2015, 04:42:58 PM »
Nope, that is the right one. A Mac user on the Griso forum had a similar problem. I'll see if I can find the post.

Offline JeffOlson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1643
  • Location: Oregon & Washington
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #527 on: July 16, 2015, 07:46:30 PM »
^ Thanks, Mark. I'll look, too.

From the Griso forum (unfortunately, I cannot see the linked file not being a forum member):

It seems that the issue is that Apple introduced their own driver with Mavericks and the two (FTDI and Mavericks versions) dont get on. Here is a link to a page that has a neat litlle program that disables the Mavericks version and allows Guzzidiag and its associated programs to work as design. The program features a real simple button to disable then enable.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

NOTE: LEAVE THE PROGRAM RUNNING WHILST USING GUZZIDIAG. I found that the Mavericks driver reasserted itself if you just disabled it then closed the disabling program. I have used the reader, writer and Guzzidiag itself this morning and all seem to work under OSX 10.9.3
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 08:42:28 PM by JeffOlson »
2018 Vespa GTS 300
2016 Moto Guzzi Norge
2015 Vespa Sprint 150
2015 Vespa GTS 300

Offline canuck1969

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #528 on: July 16, 2015, 09:42:33 PM »
Any known issues of the Cat Converter in the exhaust being affected by turning the lambda probes off.  Also, for those with a stock setup on a 2012+ Stelvio, what has been the normal change in mileage if any from just turning the probes off.

beetle

  • Guest
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 12:12:02 AM by beetle »

Offline JeffOlson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1643
  • Location: Oregon & Washington
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #530 on: July 16, 2015, 11:48:53 PM »
^ Awesome! I'll give it a try.

UPDATE: No joy.  :sad: The writer program works, but it still cannot see any maps, not even if the driver-disabling program is in use. I will just have to forego using Guzzi Diag for now. (Since my only real fueling problem is bucking and lurching at low throttle settings, I may simply resort to a couple of O2 foolers with a mild enriching setting.)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 10:29:20 AM by JeffOlson »
2018 Vespa GTS 300
2016 Moto Guzzi Norge
2015 Vespa Sprint 150
2015 Vespa GTS 300

Offline Yukonica

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • Borealbreeze Bernese Mountain Dogs
  • Location: Yukon Territory, Canada
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #531 on: July 18, 2015, 08:31:49 PM »
Going to post this in this thread as the place to cover off the question. (Talking 2013 V7 Special here) Roughly 4000 km ago I swapped out a pair of Mistral shorties back to the OEM Lafranconi pipes. At the same time I power-cycled the bike's electronics to reset the ECU to original mapping. There were bumps and hiccups as I was warned to expect while the bike adjusted to it's new/original command system. Until today I thought the 'reset' was on form. But it rained really hard and the bike did not like it one bit.
Rolling on throttle from 4000 in 5th caused it to 'over fuel?' and drop contact with one cylinder.... stuuttt.. stutt.. stutter.  Normally easing off would resolve the problem but today I had to drop two gears to get the machine to breathe again. I had a similar problem with my carburetor aspirated Moto Morini but it had an air-filter sticking straight into the rain. I expected problems.
.... The question is: are ECU susceptible to high humidity situations? Do I just knock it off as 'conditions' or is there something I should be doing?
One may write one's destiny but the unknown delivers it.

beetle

  • Guest
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #532 on: July 18, 2015, 09:02:27 PM »
I may simply resort to a couple of O2 foolers with a mild enriching setting.)


No no no no no! Please don't!

I'm no Mac user, but it isn't some sort of OS setting that hides *.bin files, or 'non-standard' files?

Offline JeffOlson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1643
  • Location: Oregon & Washington
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #533 on: July 18, 2015, 09:35:35 PM »

No no no no no! Please don't!

I'm no Mac user, but it isn't some sort of OS setting that hides *.bin files, or 'non-standard' files?

Ah! That's a thought. I'll check that. Thanks!
2018 Vespa GTS 300
2016 Moto Guzzi Norge
2015 Vespa Sprint 150
2015 Vespa GTS 300

Vasco DG

  • Guest
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #534 on: July 18, 2015, 10:23:28 PM »
^ Awesome! I'll give it a try.

UPDATE: No joy.  :sad: The writer program works, but it still cannot see any maps, not even if the driver-disabling program is in use. I will just have to forego using Guzzi Diag for now. (Since my only real fueling problem is bucking and lurching at low throttle settings, I may simply resort to a couple of O2 foolers with a mild enriching setting.)

Please, please don't do this! The last person I saw who tried this needed a $7,500 rebuild because of the horrible bits of shit! They can, and often do, promote gross overfuelling at certain speeds and throttle openings and from then on its only a matter of time.

Offline pauldaytona

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2562
    • Paul's fast Guzzi Page
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #535 on: July 19, 2015, 03:25:54 AM »
Ah! That's a thought. I'll check that. Thanks!

 the first place where the reader ansd writer look when the file browser window is opend, is the location where the program itself is. place the maps there.
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline canuck1969

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #536 on: July 19, 2015, 08:07:38 AM »
^ Awesome! I'll give it a try.

UPDATE: No joy.  :sad: The writer program works, but it still cannot see any maps, not even if the driver-disabling program is in use. I will just have to forego using Guzzi Diag for now. (Since my only real fueling problem is bucking and lurching at low throttle settings, I may simply resort to a couple of O2 foolers with a mild enriching setting.)

If u are having that much trouble with the Mac, for a little more than the price of the foolers why not just pick up the cheapest pc notebook you can find that will run the program and call it a day. This way when you drop it in the garage when programming the bike you won't swear as much. Just a thought.

Bill Hagan

  • Guest
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #537 on: July 19, 2015, 09:11:57 AM »
If u are having that much trouble with the Mac, for a little more than the price of the foolers why not just pick up the cheapest pc notebook you can find that will run the program and call it a day. This way when you drop it in the garage when programming the bike you won't swear as much. Just a thought.


Actually, I've been -- notwithstanding my four-year near-flaw-free experience with fruit  :laugh: -- thinking about doing just that. 

Some amazingly inexpensive options out there and it'd be my Moto Grappa laptop, used almost only for shop stuff.

Bill


Offline canuck1969

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #538 on: July 19, 2015, 11:14:39 AM »
I have now corrected my speedometer to read the correct speed using the speedo corrector. Any idea if there is (or will be coming) a way to correct the fuel mileage readout that is very optimistically low.

Also I have a replacement dash for my Stelvio that I got under warranty since the original one had some fog on the inside. I have been hesitant in putting it on dice the mileage will be reset to zero. Have not found anyone who can correct it since it resides in the dash and not the ecu. Any slick ways to download the mileage to the ecu and then copy it back. Would be nice to just input the new mileage but pretty sure there are some legal implications of doing that independent from a dealer.

canuguzzi

  • Guest
Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #539 on: July 19, 2015, 01:57:48 PM »
Best thing going for GuzziDiag to avoid the hassles on incompatible hardware (MACor PC) is to get a refurb Panasonic CF-19. They are cheap, about $150 and are Toughbooks so they are about as rugged a thing as you can get.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/sys/5099523681.html

The screens swivel 180 degrees too. These things can be dropped, sat on, run over and they will continue to work. Not the fastest laptops but the most rugged and they will work every time you fire them up.

No case needed, the shell is magnesium and everything is shock mounted. Not very big either.

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here
 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here