2022 V7 Stone E5 Steering Headset Bearings

[Enzo Toma]

I bought a 2022 MG V7 Stone E5 new in June and have been touring with it on and off since the end of July. This is my first Moto Guzzi, it replaced a Ducati Scrambler. I noticed that at maybe around 4k miles the steering started to feel notchy, but I wasn't near a Moto Guzzi dealer so I waited until the 6,200 mile service to have it looked at. At the 6,200 mile service the shop I brought it to confirmed the headset bearings needed replacing, but they didn't have them and would have trouble getting them (though they're listed on the MG website as a dealer, they didn't for example have the Piaggio tool to hook up to the bike's computer and reset the service light/wrench icon). I ordered the headset bearings to a different more full service shop, waited about a month for them to arrive from Italy since they said the stateside Moto Guzzi warehouse in Georgia has not yet been restocked since the Suez Canal obstruction in 2021 (dang global supply chain issues, what can you do), and just got them replaced yesterday at 8,400 miles. They replaced both sets. One set rolls acceptably, the other set does not and shows much rust. I unfortunately don't know which set is the top and bottom since they're the same parts. I asked what could have caused this and the shop gave examples such as pressure washing or leaving the bike outside in the rain. It's been in the rain but has never been pressure washed, barely washed. I paid out of pocket for the bearings and labor to get the issue resolved since I am traveling and need the motorcycle to be usable for transportation. I was told that if I wanted to try to use the manufacturer warranty it would take months for the shop to get the bike into their schedule (understandable, many shops are booked 2+ months out) and then they would need to send Moto Guzzi photos of the parts, wait for MG to get back to them and send them replacement parts under warranty, etc. I asked about steering head bearing inspection since it's in the maintenance schedule, the shop said that they inspect the steering functionality at each maintenance interval, but that steering head bearings are usually only serviced (retorqued, greased?) at the larger 12k mile interval which this bike hasn't reached yet, and that they rarely need replacement at that interval.

Some thoughts that crossed my mind were: Bad quality control with the dust cap seal or grease packing at the factory? Grease that isn't waterproof enough? Bike too fragile to ride in the rain? Why ball bearings instead of tapered roller bearings?

I am interested to hear thoughts from others with more experience on this. Is my bike an anomaly, or is this an issue with V7s? Do I have any chance reaching out to MG customer service and asking if they'd reimburse me for this under warranty since the work was done by authorized shops, though not through the regular warranty procedure?

[Vagrant]

You won't like any of the answers but, Guzzi is a pain when it comes to warranty work. It takes many phone calls by the dealer that he doesn't get reimbursed for. He gets little to nothing to do the work. All in all it's more trouble than it's worth for him. If he didn't sell the bike new he really feels dumped on.
It failed because Guzzi like many companies refuses to grease stuff properly when assembling the products.

[guzzisteve]

Read on bearing where they are made or company who made the bearings, lots of Chinese stuff on newer models.
I'd put in my own stuff, tapered rollers for a start.Should be out there, I put them in older SB's.

[jacksonracingcomau]

Well done for using the bike as designed, fobbed off for riding in the rain is completely unacceptable, imagine if car buyers were told this stuff!
May or may not get you refunded but the importers need to know this happened, just send them what you posted here.
Nothing wrong with balls for steering head but grease is essential, failure within weeks of new purchase just ridiculous, needs to be a pre delivery check, lube and adjust (or memo to factory to do it first)

[SmithSwede]

Used cow food. 

I have a 2013 V7 Stone.  Maybe different bearings. 

I’ve got over 150,000 miles on it.  It has been everywhere in all weather, including day long frog drowning rain.  Constant urban riding, rail road crossings, bumps, dusty rocky country roads, etc. 

The original headstock bearings are still perfect.  No notching. I think I’ve changed the fork oil 3 times, and each time I did I would clean and repack the bearings with Belray waterproof grease. At least on my bike I don’t think you could wear them out. 

I suspect yours were never properly greased, or were shipped too loose and pounded themselves to death, or are cheap Chinese crap bearings. 

[greer]

Hey there Enzo Toma, welcome to the forum.  Checking the parts diagrams, looks like MG started using these with the V7 III, earlier V7's all got the tapered roller bearings.  For whatever that's worth.  Glad to have you here and thank you for the head's up and pictures, I'll be adding the bearing check/repack to my chore list straight away.  And Doug's V85, too. 

Sarah

[blu guzz]

My last warranty repair on a Guzzi was pre-pandemic and my dealer did not seem to have any trouble dealing with Piaggio, for what it is worth. 
I am not trying to minimize your issue, but 20 or so years ago, if you had a warranty claim, it usually meant you had a bike you could not ride.  So, just observing that most issues these days don't leave you by the side of the road. so improvement. I don't know if new dealers get any mentoring or training from Corporate, but customers would have a better time if they did.

[Enzo Toma]

Thanks for all the responses. It is reassuring to know other MG V7s hold up well. A friend has high mileage on her V7 III with very few issues, that reliability is certainly a positive factor I considered when deciding on which motorcycle to purchase a few months ago.

I am waiting to hear back from Moto Guzzi customer care about potential warranty coverage after-the-fact, but am not holding my breath. Even the dealership sounded doubtful that I'd have success with a warranty claim not done through them the slow way.

The bearing issue was very unexpected, a bit of an inconvenience and expense, but not a major issue. To blu guzz's point, the motorcycle was still rideable. Just very awkward to steer at parking lot speeds, fine at highway speeds. At this mileage some other motorcycles I've owned had gone through significantly more $$$ in consumables and service (especially desmo service), so I'm still quite happy with the low maintenance of my first Moto Guzzi, even with this unexpected issue.

greer, that is interesting that they switched from tapered bearings to ball bearings. Ball bearings in the steering headset seem rare on modern motorcycles for whatever reasons.
The MG part number for the replacement bearings is: 2B007853 "THRUST BALL BEARING", this seems to be a new number for AP8110077 which is what I found in a parts fiche PDF. I wonder if that could mean the new bearings are different than the original equipment ones? I didn't see the new ones before the shop installed them. Either way, with bringing the motorcycle in specifically for the issue, I'm hopeful they took care in making sure the replacement bearings were adequately greased and torqued when installed. Fingers crossed my goose doesn't have this same issue again. If it does I would certainly look into alternative bearing options.

I also asked the dealer what goes into their prep process when they receive and uncrate a new V7 E5. They said they don't do anything with the steering beyond a visual and feel inspection. The bikes arrive in the crate almost ready to go with the handlebars already installed and cocked to one side (which they have seen occasionally cause damage to the fuel tank in shipping). I found an unboxing video that confirms that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y83yuzH2rw
I asked this because some other bikes (Yamaha R1) would ship with a crate attachment point mounted to the steering stem, so dealer prep involved torquing the top nut to spec after that was removed.

The etching on the old bearings' ring exterior reads: F-619017.SKL   VIETNAM 0358   V323   FAG
Trying to find more details on the parts online by searching "F-619017", it seems there are shipping import/export manifests of that outer ring part being exported from China and imported to Vietnam. FAG might be FAG Industrial Services out of Germany, a manufacturer of ball bearings.
If that's the case, they sound worldly to me! Hopefully decent metallurgy.

[DAMMAG]

Probably worth getting the driveshaft splines greased too if you want to be thorough. Not to mention the swingarm pivot bearings.

[greer]

I've found AF1 Racing to have the handiest website for researching part numbers.

https://www.af1racing.com/OEM-Aprilia-Steering-Stem-Bearing-AP8110077

https://www.af1racing.com/2B007853-THRUST-BALL-BEARING

Scroll down just a bit and you'll see the fitment list.

Hope the new bearings are just right and you can enjoy the ride, Enzo Toma.

Sarah

[jacksonracingcomau]

I've found AF1 Racing to have the handiest website for researching part numbers.

https://www.af1racing.com/OEM-Aprilia-Steering-Stem-Bearing-AP8110077

https://www.af1racing.com/2B007853-THRUST-BALL-BEARING

Scroll down just a bit and you'll see the fitment list.

Hope the new bearings are just right and you can enjoy the ride, Enzo Toma.

Sarah

Interesting fitment list, a lot of bikes, obviously Aprilia believe in balls not tapers, actually not a new school of thought
Pretty much rules out place of manufacture being relevant to failure, shoddy assembly/pd check more likely

But if op or anyone greasing would care to post dimensions (inner ID, outer OD and stack height) could be useful for anyone wishing to fit tapers (if OE N/A ?) or others swapping tapers to this ball type.
Odds on it’s a direct replacement for ubiquitous 30205 that’s been in Guzzis since 1966 and an awful lot of other bikes besides.
I can also see these as replacement for old SB’s , many fit tapers for ease and because OE kit is stupid dear, these will need adaptors too but much easier to assemble than loose balls and price is not bad. If they’re good enough for V4 Aprilia , I’d be game to test em on my 650 8v ! (Lubed and adjusted, of course)

[chrisfer]

I had to change the column bearings on my V7 III at ~15000km, although they were greased correctly.
I put tapered bearings, they resist much better, but the adjustment is delicate and the feeling is different.

https://mtp-racing.fr/Roulements-de-colonne-de-direction-MTP26415__Moto-Guzzi-V7-750-Stone-LW-2014-2016_2
http://www.wemoto.fr/bikes/moto_guzzi/v7_stone_850/22/picture/tapered_headrace_bearing_set_by_all_balls_usa/

[greer]

Thank you, Chrisfer!  Here in the US that looks to be All Balls Racing # 22-1039.

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=197_199&products_id=4359

Dennis Kirk provides the specs:

https://www.denniskirk.com/all-balls/steering-stem-bearing-kits-22-1039.p122120.prd/122120.sku?cid=17923638713&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqc6aBhC4ARIsAN06NmO2vm5plK4O1mj0BgcXbcopxhMoodDLv--nDzNG3c7DzkIQ5_E5yDIaAl3FEALw_wcB

Sarah

[guzzisteve]

All Balls is bad China junk proven bad many times. I had a set of wheel bearings last 15mi.

[greer]

The particulars per Dennis Kirk:

All Balls Steering Stem Bearings - 22-1039
Tapered roller bearings
Drop-in replacements for OEM ball-type bearings

INCLUDED ITEMS:
Two 32907 JR-2 bearings with races

BEARING DIMENISIONS:
Inside Diameter: (2)35mm
Outside Diameter: (2)55mm
Width: (2)11mm

Sarah

[Enzo Toma]

Just wanted to provide an update. For trying to get this covered under warranty for reimbursement I emailed Moto Guzzi (Piaggio Group) customer care, they asked for a copy of ALL of the motorcycle's maintenance history which I was able to get by calling up the various dealerships, having them email me PDFs of the work orders/invoices, and then I forwarded those on to MG customer care. Once they had that information they emailed each shop to confirm the documents and the work done, I know this because one of the shops called me to ask if there was any issue with the work they had done (there was not), because they were surprised to have an email from Moto Guzzi about my service with them. This morning the rep got back to me and told me that the bearings are considered wear and tear items so they aren't covered. A bit of a disappointment, but it is what it is. I suggested that they have the factory review their quality control on the bearing installations.

"I have provided all repair orders to my tech team and have been informed that the bearings are considered a wear and tear items.  This would not have been covered under warranty no matter what mileage interval it needed it. "

[s1120]

Nice way to walk away from your problem Piaggio. Pretty sad really. If it is in fact a "wear item" to them, I would expect a spec for check/lube/adjust for them that would fall into your less then 1 year/4k mile failure point. Real sad, and a great way to loose even more if the market.

[greer]

Thanks for the follow up, Enzo Toma.  That's pretty much what we expected to hear.  Regardless of the manufacturer, I'd think.  I forgot to ask, while the shop had your bike, did they address the recent TSB:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10211301-0001.pdf

It may be spring before I get my bike to the shop.  Word is the update provides a definite improvement in low RPM fueling, and corrects the nutty mileage calculator. 

Sarah

[Moparnut72]

I don't hold much stock in warranties. I feel that they would be mainly for catastrophic failures only. Otherwise probably get the run around. I have been trying to get my RV in for warranty work and a couple of recalls. It will be almost a year by the time I get it done. Not entirely the dealer's fault but when I schedule an appointment it is three months out. I have had to cancel a couple of times which adds another three months. I can live with the furnace not working but the recalls are potentially dangerous. A regulator that can cause a fire and a problem with the pin box that could lead to a towing issue. You would think they would get me in ASAP. Nope. I replaced the regulator myself and welded the pin box so no issue for me but they don't know that. I think for the most part warranties are about as good as the paper they are printed on when it comes to toys and how good the dealer is.
kk

[Kildareman]

Thanks for the follow up, Enzo Toma.  That's pretty much what we expected to hear.  Regardless of the manufacturer, I'd think.  I forgot to ask, while the shop had your bike, did they address the recent TSB:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10211301-0001.pdf

It may be spring before I get my bike to the shop.  Word is the update provides a definite improvement in low RPM fueling, and corrects the nutty mileage calculator. 

Sarah

I didn't see any change in the nuttiness of the average fuel calculator to be honest - still under reading by approximately 1l/100 . Shows 4, calculates as 5 (58.8mpg us / 70 uk calculated as 47 us & 56 uk)

Fuelling is/was a definite improvement.

[Enzo Toma]

Sarah, thanks for bringing up that TSB. I bought my V7 E5 new through a dealer in June, after that TSB. The dealer stated that they took care of all software updates pre-delivery. Unfortunately with it being a black box type of system, I just have to take their word for it. Guess which side of the right to repair fence I'm on 😉 With 11k miles tracked in a spreadsheet of fill-ups, I have averaged 50.9 mpg on the V7 E5 since new. Most of those are highway miles with a fair amount of weight in soft panniers and a duffle bag.




Moparnut72, that frustratingly seems to be a big issue with any dealer service lately. Appointments are often booked out for months. I've been lucky in that shops tend to give some priority to people who are out of town and passing through. I think all you can do is try to make a stink about it. If it's an NHTSA safety recall it should be taken seriously, if it's just a TSB the shop unfortunately might not share your urgency.

I generally try to do most wrenching myself, but for the Guzzi it is new to me, under MFG warranty, and I've been touring so I'm not yet anxious to dig into it myself.

[greer]

That looks like a traveling set up for sure, very nice!  50 mpg sounds right per my own figures, I never pay any attention to the computer calculations on any vehicle.

Sarah