2004 For Sale ??????????

[Stephen]

The "dealer" in town has an 04 EV for sale. I have asked 3 separate times about recalls, as I am familiar with all of them owning an 03.
They tell me only the triple tree applies and it was accomplished.
I repeatedly asked about the cam recall, they say it doesn't apply to this one.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't ALL 03 and 04 require the cam recall?

Please Advise

[NC Steve]

I believe that only the earlier 2004s required the cam fix, and that Guzzi got it straightened out in the factory before long. However, there are several 2003/04 experts here that'll no doubt chime in before long.
It's a beautiful day back east and down south, everyone's probably out riding. 

[Wayne Orwig]

100% of the hydraulic lifter bikes. 2003 and 20004. A 2004 EV for sure.

[rodekyll]

It's dead, Jim.

[Stephen]

Thanks, that's what I thought.

[Tom H]

FWIW: my '04 only shows the triple clamp as a recall. The engine had been done, either at the factory or dealer.

With respect to the posters, I thought the mid to late '04 had the update done at the factory?

Tom

[rodekyll]

My 04 with 204 miles on it is not done.  I won't even start it until I get the recall complete.

[Tom H]

RK, just to be clear, your valve adjusters are not snapped off and you don't have the silver spring hats?

What does running the vin at piagio have to say!

Really curious?

Also, why the neck didn't they continue with the hydro once sorted at least on the California series bikes? It's a nice engine!

Tom

[Cam3512]

They cut their losses and went back to solid lifters with the Calvin.

[Dilliw]

Simple enough to pull a valve cover and take a look.

[bigbikerrick]

I think A CalVin with a hydro motor would make the perfect Guzzi!
Rick.

[rodekyll]

I inspected it pre-sale.  There were no snapped adjusters.  I plan to do the work this winter before I ever fire it up. I gots the stuff.  With only 204 miles I think I'm catching it in time.  I'm going to give it a quick restorative maintenance service at the same time and sell it.  It'll be showroom fresh.  There are no signs  of it ever being ridden.  But if someone has to pay for the kit and labor, the hydro defect is a deal breaker.

[Tom H]

Thanks, again just curious.

Tom

[Dilliw]

I inspected it pre-sale.  There were no snapped adjusters.  I plan to do the work this winter before I ever fire it up. I gots the stuff.  With only 204 miles I think I'm catching it in time.  I'm going to give it a quick restorative maintenance service at the same time and sell it.  It'll be showroom fresh.  There are no signs  of it ever being ridden.  But if someone has to pay for the kit and labor, the hydro defect is a deal breaker.

My '03 had the recall performed in 2006 and doesn't have snapped off adjusters but does have the shiny spring hats:





It's got around 90k on it now.

[rodekyll]

The hydro is an excellent machine.  I think it is the best of the Cali series.  I pushed the trike around for two years with one.  1600# and passing cars on the freeway at 85.  The engine was claimed for the recall but was toast when I got it at 12k.  It's got an additional 40k on it since.

Iirc there were two recall campaigns for the hydro issue.  The first one had the non-snapped, non-adjustable adjusters.  The second had the snap-off kind.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  My new 04 looks like that picture above except the lids aren't shiny.

[pete roper]

Not sure how many *Fixes* there were but the last one, which actually fixed the problem, had the snap off adjusters. The reason why some bikes that work don't have them is I'd guess down to a problem I've seen several times of even if the changeover has been done whoever has done it either hasn't bothered reading the instructions or reckoned they didn't need to snap off the adjusters.

If this isn't done the tops of them bash on the rocker cover when the engine is started and my guess is that once again an unwillingness to read the instructions, (Or think!) led to the old rockers being put in to stop it making the jackhammer noise when started!

Pete

[Dilliw]

Iirc there were two recall campaigns for the hydro issue.  The first one had the non-snapped, non-adjustable adjusters.  The second had the snap-off kind.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  My new 04 looks like that picture above except the lids aren't shiny.

As Pete says Carl could have just been lazy and not changed out the rockers, or mine could be an earlier kit.  Either way I think the shiny hats are the key, and if you don't have them don't ride.

[rodekyll]

I don't care who claims to have done the work.  There's no excuse for not following the procedure and  replacing the parts.  "Lazy" is not a  valid reason for sloppy practice.   A lazy mechanic killed my "recalled" hydro -- but collected the money.  I despite that.

[NC Steve]

Are any of the 2002s hydraulic lifter bikes?

[Dilliw]

Are any of the 2002s hydraulic lifter bikes?

Not in the U.S.

[Stephen]

Talked to the dealer again, they showed me on the Piaggio site, no recalls apply currently.
I told them a quick look under the valve cover would settle the question, again, they reiterated no recalls.
Could it have been done at the factory?
They want $3300 for a 04 EV.
Should I buy or move on?

[xackley]

I bought a 2003 with touring fairing, upgraded givi bags and top case, external oil filter,Rich's well cushioned seat,   20k miles.
The guy selling it sent me a picture of the rockers upon request before I would travel 2.5 hours to check it out.
It's only half a dozen or so easy access bolts.
$2500.
So far it runs great.
There are not a lot of people looking for a Guzzi.

Don

[Rich A]

If the dealer is confident the bike is sound, you might see if they'd be willing to work with you on a warranty for the valves.

Rich A

[Idontwantapickle]

Talked to the dealer again, they showed me on the Piaggio site, no recalls apply currently.
I told them a quick look under the valve cover would settle the question, again, they reiterated no recalls.
Could it have been done at the factory?
They want $3300 for a 04 EV.
Should I buy or move on?

If they won't remove six screws that don't even require leaning over to reach then I'd say forget it and buy from someone with nothing to hide.

Hunter

[rodekyll]

I wouldn't do business with anyone who basically dared me to buy their stuff, which is what I feel is happening when I get nonresponsive replies to my queries.  If he wants to sell the bike he needs to engage in the sale.  Otherwise there are more hydro EVs out there that you can buy with confidence.  I have one with 204 actual miles that I'll be selling this winter.  Want a showroom fresh EVT with all the factory farkles and pics of the recall being done?  PM me.

[Kev m]

Talked to the dealer again, they showed me on the Piaggio site, no recalls apply currently.
I told them a quick look under the valve cover would settle the question, again, they reiterated no recalls.
Could it have been done at the factory?
They want $3300 for a 04 EV.
Should I buy or move on?

The problem we're seeing here is that they are both WRONG and RIGHT at the same time no?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Cam thing wasn't an actual OFFICIAL RECALL. It was a service bulletin and they fixed them as they were requested. But they never filed anything with the NHTSA

Check for yourself:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls

2003 Moto Guzzi comes up with only one recall - EV - steering head.

2003 Moto Guzzi yields the same (though there are also some complaints lodged about the fuel hose, but only 1 Cali Recall, Steering).

So the dealer is telling the truth, there are no open recalls.

He's also A MOTH@$@^@^#^!^!^%%% @$^@$^$^@^ MORON because he's not checking to see if the damn thing was fixed (sounds like it wasn't). Or he's dishonest and knows damn well and doesn't want to open that can of worms on his dime.

Either way, it doesn't bode well.

[Dilliw]

From Dave Richardson's contemporaneous write up:

"For unsold, non-registered no-miles bikes, an early 2005 service campaign will update PIs with a third-generation cam and new (less stiff) valve springs, aluminum (in place of steel) upper spring collars, pre-filled lifters, longer (35-mm vs. 32-mm) followers, adjustable rocker arms, and a revised cam thrust retainer. At the same time the shims, if present, are deleted. In the summer of 2005, a similar campaign will be launched to update sold bikes plus unsold bikes with accumulated miles. Details of that program are still being developed but it is expected to be similar although possibly more elaborate than the first campaign."

So it was a "service campaign" and not a recall.  Dave's write up makes it clear that all unsold bikes in inventory, probably many of which were 2004 models in the summer of 2005, got priority on the kits so that they would be sold "good to go."  As an owner at the time of an existing bike I can attest to this as I had to wait almost a year (March 2006) before my kit made it to my dealer.

This bike could very well have the update as installed pre-delivery by the dealer, but trusting what is in that computer system is a proven no no.  5 minutes to inspect isn't a lot to ask of the seller.

[Moto]

I suggest you show up with cash in one hand and a 5mm Allen wrench in the other. Offer the money on the condition that you take off the cover and confirm the shiny hats are present. Then offer a handshake. This will resolve the issue, one way or the other..

You, of course, have to be and present yourself as honorable. I expect salesmen are very good at judging this. It doesn't much matter how honorable he is, so long as you won't be relying on him for service in the future. You have to follow through with the purchase with no further haggling if the caps are there.

Moto

P S. If the caps aren't there, immediately walk away. You might tell him the recommended torque on the screws is 10Nm.

[bigbikerrick]

Are any of the 2002s hydraulic lifter bikes?

I have a Cali SS Aluminum, that the manuf. date on the steering stem in 2002, but it is titled as an 03. It is a hydro, recall for valve train was done, steering stem not involved in recall, and it came with the good 2 plate clutch. It seems, from around 2001-2003 Guzzi was using whatever parts they had available , that fit when assembling bikes, and there were some differences.
Rick.

[Kev m]

I have a Cali SS Aluminum, that the manuf. date on the steering stem in 2002, but it is titled as an 03. It is a hydro, recall for valve train was done, steering stem not involved in recall, and it came with the good 2 plate clutch. It seems, from around 2001-2003 Guzzi was using whatever parts they had available , that fit when assembling bikes, and there were some differences.
Rick.

Perhaps, but it's still a MODEL YEAR 2003, and since the Hydro bikes would have required different certification (US EPA, CARB, EU etc.) I suspect strongly that there were no 2002 MODEL YEAR/TITLED Hydros - at least in the US, but probably worldwide.