Author Topic: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?  (Read 7378 times)

Offline Pasta Hog

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Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« on: January 19, 2015, 04:07:39 PM »
My Jackal makes a humming noise when the motor is running. It doesn't make this sound when the ignition is on but the motor is not. I was told this might be caused by obstruction of the mesh filter in the gas tank, so I am considering finally taking the filter off and cleaning it. I was told the fuel pump might eventually crap out if I don't.

1. Is this hum really abnormal, is it caused by crud in the filter, and do I really need to clean it?

2. Are there any tricks to cleaning it? I figured I would just take it out and hit it with whatever solvents I had handy.
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 04:24:41 PM »
It depends on the hum.

The external fuel pump was noisy.  That's one reason they made it internal.  BUT -- if your hum is abnormal and the pump isn't vibrating on something, cleaning the petcock filter, changing the fuel filter, and reversing the pump for a few seconds (reverse power leads), with the now-upstream-spigot connected to a container of fuel (you can use a bit of hose and just stick it in the fuel) will clear blockages.

Also, if an electric petcock, check the valve.  A restricted or faulty valve will make the pump noisy.

Finally -- there are other reasons a bike might 'hum'.  That's why I said "it depends".  For example, I had a voltage regulator 'hum' before failing.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 04:52:47 PM »
It *may* be normal. When you first turn on the key, does it make that sound then stop?
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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spreadeagle

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 04:56:40 PM »
My fuel pump buzzed when the tank did not vent !  Open the gas cap.  Could you here/feel the negative pressure?

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 04:56:40 PM »

Offline Pasta Hog

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 05:01:24 PM »
It doesn't make the sound until the motor starts running. Turning the ignition on doesn't produce the noise. When I first turn the key, there's a loud electrical noise, which I assume is the fuel pump, but it only lasts a second or two. That's not the hum that seemed strange to me.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 05:06:05 PM »
It doesn't make the sound until the motor starts running. Turning the ignition on doesn't produce the noise. When I first turn the key, there's a loud electrical noise, which I assume is the fuel pump, but it only lasts a second or two. That's not the hum that seemed strange to me.

Hmmm.. that is sort of what I was expecting it to be. The computer runs the fuel pump for 3 seconds (from memory, probably wrong) shuts it off, then doesn't start it again until it senses the engine is running. If that's not the hum, I don't know. Maybe post a sound file? Guzzis make all kinds of noises... ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline normzone

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 05:21:56 PM »
So, no possibility that it hums because it doesn't know the words? I've done that before.
That's the combustion chamber of the turbo shaft. It is supposed to be on fire. You just don't usually see it but the case and fairing fell off.

Offline Scott DeRoss

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 05:24:53 PM »
So, no possibility that it hums because it doesn't know the words? I've done that before.
  ;-T
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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2015, 06:09:40 PM »
The only 'trick' to removing the petcock is the nature of the securing nut and threads.  IIRC, the tank spigot has a left hand thread and the petcock itself has a right hand thread.  (could be the opposite)  The nut has both threads on the inside so that the nut goes on in only one direction during install.  As you loosen the nut, it acts like a turnbuckle, pushing the petcock away from the tank.  Vice versa on install.  Not a big deal, but it could be very confusing to an installer if you weren't aware of the threading system.

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Offline Pasta Hog

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2015, 06:38:22 PM »
I guess I'll yank it off of there, finally, and see if it changes.

I figure this has to be an electrical sound, since it never changes pitch.
People who claim they don't have ten seconds to answer your stupid questions can always find several minutes to criticize them.

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2015, 06:54:50 PM »
you could use a screw driver as a stethoscope to try locating where it comes from? is it an electric petcock?
MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Offline Pasta Hog

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2015, 06:58:21 PM »
I assume it's electric. It's the stock petcock. It's automatic.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2015, 08:22:41 PM »
I assume it's electric. It's the stock petcock. It's automatic.

What FGs getting at is that it is common for a wire to break on the electric petcock. If it does, the fuel pump will still pull fuel through it, but works hard and makes a noise doing it. *If* that is the problem, fix it before it burns up the pump. You don't want to know what they cost.  ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2015, 08:33:27 PM »
if there are wires coming out the bottom of the petcock, replace with this,

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30&products_id=39

manual petcock, EV etc, injected models with external fuel pumps
[Part Number: 01105460]
MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2015, 05:02:11 AM »

2. Are there any tricks to cleaning it? I figured I would just take it out and hit it with whatever solvents I had handy.

First of all you need to remove the tank but before you do check it for flow, it may be ok.
Unplug the ECU, this disables the pump so you won't spray fuel everywhere and it's best to do this job outside.
Unclip the large hose on the electric petcock and connect a suitable length of hose (clear plastic is fine) run into a fuel container.
Turn the key On, you should get a nice click from the petcock accompanied by a steady flow of fuel into your container.
At this stage if the flow is good you can put it all back together,
Don't forget to attach the petcock wires to the chrome body with a small ty-wrap, this will prevent them breaking off.

A word about the two connectors under the tank, I think on later bikes they are keyed to prevent swapping earlier bikes weren't
If you get the plugs crossed the bike will still run but the tank level sensor will burn out sending $190 up in smoke, it only takes 10 seconds with a low tank.

If the flow is just a dribble chances are the in-tank screen is plugged, to clean it you need to remove the tank, best done with a low level but it never seems to happen that way.
Unplug the two electrical connectors, unbolt the tank add slide it back.
You will find there are two hoses connected at the front, disconnect the RH one at the little valve by the steering head, disconnect the LH one at the tank and then slide the short length from RH to LH so there is a loop connecting the two barbs together. You do this so when you remove the tank and tip it on end fuel doesn't pour out the return connection (don't ask me how I know).
Now you can tip the tank on end while you remove the petcock to check the screen, someone else should explain that procedure.

Fuel Filter
The fuel filters can blind off completely with fine rust, anything that gets through the tank strainer gets ground up to talcum powder by the pump covering the surface of the filter. Of course you can replace it but you will never earn your red suspenders doing that?
To remove the filter you first disconnect the hoses then slip it out of it's bracket while sliding the filter out through the frame. Chances are you will still have some fuel in it so put a thumb and finger over the two holes and shake it up then let the fuel run out the inlet into a container. Look how nasty mine was, plugged the shop rag right off until it wouldn't flow through.

This is the second time I have flushed mine, the first was a year ago at Rockers campout in Ourway, the bike was new to me then and bogging down on the hills from fuel starvation. I just removed enough to get home. The rust you see is what remained after that as the tank was treated as soon as I made it back.
Flush it a couple of times with fresh gas and it'll be good for another 40,000 miles.

Patrick told me to check the moat drain, sure enough when I tried it was plugged right off so every time it rained or the bike got washed the water would collect in the recessed cap waiting to pour into the tank at next fill-up, I believe this is what causes the filter to plug on EVs and Jackals. He told me how to clear the drain with compressed air and an old bike cable as a drill. I used some stainless down-rigger wire I had around.
Check your moat drains by pouring a little gas in there once in a while.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 10:01:59 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2015, 08:59:11 AM »
Very nice explanation, KR.. ;-T
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2015, 09:21:33 AM »
It doesn't make the sound until the motor starts running. Turning the ignition on doesn't produce the noise. When I first turn the key, there's a loud electrical noise, which I assume is the fuel pump, but it only lasts a second or two. That's not the hum that seemed strange to me.

Then it is not related to the pump.
When you turn on the key, the fuel pump runs for a couple of seconds. You are saying that noise is NOT the hum. So it is NOT the fuel pump.
Move on.

Maybe the exhaust is resting against the frame. Look at the left exhaust down by the sidestand bracket. That point often touches the frame and can buzz.
Maybe there is a problem with the cam chain tensioner.
Maybe you got something up in the alternator.
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2015, 09:44:33 AM »
It depends on the hum.

The external fuel pump was noisy.  That's one reason they made it internal.  BUT -- if your hum is abnormal and the pump isn't vibrating on something, cleaning the petcock filter, changing the fuel filter, and reversing the pump for a few seconds (reverse power leads), with the now-upstream-spigot connected to a container of fuel (you can use a bit of hose and just stick it in the fuel) will clear blockages.

Also, if an electric petcock, check the valve.  A restricted or faulty valve will make the pump noisy.

Finally -- there are other reasons a bike might 'hum'.  That's why I said "it depends".  For example, I had a voltage regulator 'hum' before failing.

In my case, it was a faulty electric fuel petcock.  It finally let me down when riding one day and I had to make a roadside modification to the petcock in order to get back home.

Replaced it with a manual fuel petcock and all was well.

The hum you're hearing is the fuel pump straining under additional load and will not be good for the pump over the long term.  May as well diagnose the obstruction and fix it before you lose the pump.
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2015, 02:25:36 PM »
Then it is not related to the pump.
When you turn on the key, the fuel pump runs for a couple of seconds. You are saying that noise is NOT the hum. So it is NOT the fuel pump.
Move on.

Maybe the exhaust is resting against the frame. Look at the left exhaust down by the sidestand bracket. That point often touches the frame and can buzz.
Maybe there is a problem with the cam chain tensioner.
Maybe you got something up in the alternator.


I'm beginning to think along this line.  Is there any vibration associated with the noise?  Does the noise change with engine speed or clutch operation?  What about if you load the 'lectrical system down (turn everything on)?

Offline carmine bonacci

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2015, 05:16:26 PM »
When my 2001 California was new, I brought it to the dealer for service, when I got it back I noticed a hum when she idled, but it ran good? I called the dealer and he had no answers?  eventually the bike died on a road trip The verdict was the electronic fuel petcock wires were off and the fuel pump pressure forced the fuel through the restricted petcock until pump burned up!  that is the way it was explained to me!
Carmine

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2015, 05:35:12 PM »
No power on the coil will overload the pump for sure, I took a bunch of readings under different circumstances a while back, I think that was one of them. The easy way to check the petcock is take off the sidecover, with the ignition on pull the petcock fuse, you should hear the petcock click as you make and break the fuse.
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2015, 09:42:06 PM »
When my 2001 California was new, I brought it to the dealer for service, when I got it back I noticed a hum when she idled, but it ran good? I called the dealer and he had no answers?  eventually the bike died on a road trip The verdict was the electronic fuel petcock wires were off and the fuel pump pressure forced the fuel through the restricted petcock until pump burned up!  that is the way it was explained to me!

Yep, they do that. But they should also make that noise for a few seconds when you first turn on the key and the pump 'primes'. All of the ones I have seen did.
He said his never does. It only makes noise with the motor running. I guess the next question is, does the noise change a lot with RPM?
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Offline Pasta Hog

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Re: Tips on Getting Rid of Jackal Hum?
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2015, 10:52:26 AM »
I managed to locate a new fuel filter, which I'm picking up today. I didn't want to fool with this issue until I was also prepared to put a new filter in. Hoping for exciting news.
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