620 Mile service... Absolute law or stern guide post?

[stomatomoto]

Hello Geese and Ganders! 

My 2016 V7 Stone 2 has 652 miles on it. Why have I not done the 620 service yet? Mostly because people told me not to stress it, and also the closest dealer is like 2 hours away in Elk Grove... So basically, how much trouble am I in, if any? I've totally managed to keep it under 6k RPM most of the time except for a handful of slips here and there, so I think I'm good there, but I feel like I'm hearing a weird clicking noise from inside the engine heads under heavy acceleration/very open throttle, and it seems to idle roughly. I must have the old ECU map, because it will seriously die on me if I don't let it warm up for a bit after a cold start or rev a lot while playing the clutch into first.

That raises another question: how easy is it to burn out the clutch on these things? I tend to play the clutch a lot because it is not smooth at low speeds/gears, and a couple times I've smelled an interesting sorta burnt smell after revving a lot and accelerating quickly. More than I should, I think, but I'm still learning the quirks on this thing. I also engine break all the time, somewhat heavily. Bad?

Also, been using Chevron "plus", their mid-grade 89 octane in whatever rating that works out to me in NOMM or NORM or whatever, seemed like a good middle point between what I've read here about using as low an octane as possible and the dealership recommending premium/91. Stay that course?

[Cam3512]

If anything, your head bolts need a retorgue and valve adjustment.  First service mileage interval is there for a reason.

Get the updated map, you (and your clutch) will be glad you did.

[Kev m]

Don't stress, but don't ignore it for 1k miles either, get it done.

If there is an updated map, it could improve what you're talking about.

If there is something making an odd noise, don't you want to know and to know what it is? Are you doing damage by continuing to ride it?

Head bolts are a good point too.

And the valves? How were they originally set?

And don't listen to people talking shyte on the internet about knowing better than the factory. Use the wrong fluids or fuel octane at your own peril. Manufacturers don't just make this all up for no reason. Are you guessing they are being conservative and there's some leeway? Maybe, but if you're using ethanol you're already running leaner then it was mapped for, so running lower octane too is just risking knock. Seems silly for a few cents per fill.

Cam mentions first service mileage is there for a reason. One of those reasons is the hit and miss quality of assembly and prep. A mistake in those areas on a bike can be more than just inconvenient if it leads to a failure.

Get er' done.

[stomatomoto]

Kev M, don't tell the others, but you're my favorite here. Totally getting on that ASAP, sent email to book appointment with em' yesterday but likely won't hear until Tues/Weds when I can get it in their shop. How important is it that I go to the dealer instead of the local shop who says they can do it? I have my doubts currently about local shop, they used to be a Harley shop and they seem pretty fresh on the whole Italian Stallion thing.

Also I'm still worried about the clutch--are people replacing those all the time because of noobs like me, or am I obsessing again?

[Lannis]

Hello Geese and Ganders! 

My 2016 V7 Stone 2 has 652 miles on it. Why have I not done the 620 service yet? Mostly because people told me not to stress it, and also the closest dealer is like 2 hours away in Elk Grove... So basically, how much trouble am I in, if any? I've totally managed to keep it under 6k RPM most of the time except for a handful of slips here and there, so I think I'm good there, but I feel like I'm hearing a weird clicking noise from inside the engine heads under heavy acceleration/very open throttle, and it seems to idle roughly. I must have the old ECU map, because it will seriously die on me if I don't let it warm up for a bit after a cold start or rev a lot while playing the clutch into first.

That raises another question: how easy is it to burn out the clutch on these things? I tend to play the clutch a lot because it is not smooth at low speeds/gears, and a couple times I've smelled an interesting sorta burnt smell after revving a lot and accelerating quickly. More than I should, I think, but I'm still learning the quirks on this thing. I also engine break all the time, somewhat heavily. Bad?

Also, been using Chevron "plus", their mid-grade 89 octane in whatever rating that works out to me in NOMM or NORM or whatever, seemed like a good middle point between what I've read here about using as low an octane as possible and the dealership recommending premium/91. Stay that course?

Easy stuff like service intervals, the oil to use, valve lash settings, the gasoline to use ....

... As a new Guzzi rider, why not just do what the manual says to do?   

I've often commented on why everyone wants to be so different, wants to use different oil, wants to do service earlier or later.   Never have figured it out.

Lannis

[malik]

I agree; go with the flow & do it by the book. Less stress & more peace of mind. As long as your dealer has a decent reputation, I'd go with them - they have the experience & are more likely to know what to look for & do it quicker. And just enjoy the ride.

Mal

[Kev m]

Kev M, don't tell the others, but you're my favorite here. Totally getting on that ASAP, sent email to book appointment with em' yesterday but likely won't hear until Tues/Weds when I can get it in their shop. How important is it that I go to the dealer instead of the local shop who says they can do it? I have my doubts currently about local shop, they used to be a Harley shop and they seem pretty fresh on the whole Italian Stallion thing.

Also I'm still worried about the clutch--are people replacing those all the time because of noobs like me, or am I obsessing again?

ANY competent shop (or YOU, if can turn a wrench and think around a problem) can do it.

But, IF there is an updated map, only a dealer can do that.

And, this one time you've got to retorque the head bolts, and I can't imagine a Harley shop would know that.

AND the nomenclature in the Guzzi OEM manuals can be confusing and sadly the hairless talking apes working in SOME ACTUAL GUZZI DEALERS have underfilled the transmission somehow thinking it only took 175mLs not 1000mLs or something like that. And that was the old V7, not sure what the new one takes, but I'm sure someone could screw that up too.

So I'd do it myself or find a dealer/shop that I TRUST.

And the clutch will be fine, they're tough.

[SmithSwede]

Yes, get it done.  You want that oil out of there, the heads torqued, and the valves adjusted. 

I'm not sure what you mean about slipping the clutch a lot. That's probably not a good idea on a dry clutch--which can't take that kind of abuse like a wet clutch.   But also, why are you doing this?  If the clutch is adjusted properly there is no need to slip the clutch hardly at all, except for a tiny bit in 1st when taking off.

[SmithSwede]

Sorry.  Should have said welcome to the forum.  And congrats on the Stone.

Check out the recent thread on clutch inspection.    I don't think they wear out quickly from normal use.  But it all depends on how they are used. 

High revs, fast acceleration, and slipping the clutch "a lot" will obviously wear them out faster than somebody who barely slips at all and does a lot of freeway miles. 

Something else to consider.  If you are rough on the clutch and accelerating hard all the time, you are also beating up on the transmission parts and the final drive components. 

Obviously it's your bike--do what makes you happy.   Just saying that a Guzzi isn't like a chain drive bike.   Beat up a chain and $75 gets you a new one.  Think it would be much pricier for a shaft driven Guzzi if those components are beat on too much. 

[Kev m]

SS, I think it's mostly a combination of him learning the bike and maybe some rough low speed fueling:

I tend to play the clutch a lot because it is not smooth at low speeds/gears, and a couple times I've smelled an interesting sorta burnt smell after revving a lot and accelerating quickly.

That said, yeah SS has a point, you want to learn to do that less, especially if you're smelling burnt clutch.

Part of the break in service SHOULD be checking and adjusting the clutch too, which could be part of it.

[canuguzzi]

OP, if you're close to Napa and don't want or cant get to Elk Grove to go to head to Munroe Motors in SF. In the meantime, why not change the oil? They take the charge for it off the service bill and at the very least you have good oil in there.

No, the engine or anything else isn't going to self destruct in a few hundred miles but do get it in at the soonest opportunity.  Either shop will do an outstanding job. Why let someone who says they can do it touch it? There is only one first service, get it done right.

The first service will also give you an intro to the service folks, at some point, you'll need them for one thing or another.

If you head to Munroe's, right up the street are some fantastic places to catch breakfast while you wait for your bike. Try Belgian Fritz, amazing stuff made there. Within walking distance are a few bike shops to peruse as well.

[SmithSwede]

You also asked about octane of gas. 

Page 190 of 2013 Stone manual says use 95 NORM and 85 NOMM.  I think the former is Italian for RON (research) and the latter is MON (motor).

In US the headline octane rating is (R+N)/2.  So I think the Guzzi manual is saying use (95+85)/2 = 90.

I routinely use 89.  No issues.  If it is very hot and I know I'm going to be flogging the bike, I'll get the highest octane available. 

Finally, I've heard that the higher octane grades in US may contain even more ethanol that the lower grades because adding ethanol is a cheap way to raise octane.  So if you are trying to minimize ethanol, higher octane may not be the right strategy. 

[sign216]

Consider doing the first service yourself. These bikes I really easy to work on, they're sort of old-fashioned so it's just basic mechanics. The only thing you truly need to dealer for is a map update. I and others on this and other websites are happy to help you out with the first service.

[Kev m]

Consider doing the first service yourself. These bikes I really easy to work on, they're sort of old-fashioned so it's just basic mechanics. The only thing you truly need to dealer for is a map update. I and others on this and other websites are happy to help you out with the first service.

Yeah, but OP is unsure about some sounds it's making. Might be better if he has a dealer at least hear it.

[sign216]

I feel like I'm hearing a weird clicking noise from inside the engine heads under heavy acceleration/very open throttle,

Pinging?  I.e. knocking?

[Kev m]

Pinging?  I.e. knocking?

Duh, that would make sense, especially considering the 89 octane Chevron.

[canuguzzi]

Op lives in Ca, there is no getting around Ethanol and changing gas with the temperature when the temperature can change daily seems like a solution looking for a problem.

Doing the first service yourself might be easy for some, not so for others. It can't hurt to go to a high quality dealer, of which two very good ones exist within the area and start out with a good baseline, fully documented. The dealer might find something a new to Guzzi owner might overlook.

Its also a good time to pick up oils, extra filters and those things in case future service is a DIY affair. Not everything has to be ordered from some place a 1000+ miles away. Unless I'm mistaken, not too many places local to the OP to get the proper oil, spare gaskets and such.

[Kev m]

Op lives in Ca, there is no getting around Ethanol and changing gas with the temperature when the temperature can change daily seems like a solution looking for a problem.

Well, certainly, at least using the minimum recommended octane (or slightly better) might be a good place to start.

Especially if it's all Ethanol laced.

[canuguzzi]

Well, certainly, at least using the minimum recommended octane (or slightly better) might be a good place to start.

Especially if it's all Ethanol laced.

Absolutely. Like oil, cheap in ends up being expensive at the other end.

[guzzied]

OP, if you're close to Napa and don't want or cant get to Elk Grove to go to head to Munroe Motors in SF. In the meantime, why not change the oil? They take the charge for it off the service bill and at the very least you have good oil in there.

No, the engine or anything else isn't going to self destruct in a few hundred miles but do get it in at the soonest opportunity.  Either shop will do an outstanding job. Why let someone who says they can do it touch it? There is only one first service, get it done right.

The first service will also give you an intro to the service folks, at some point, you'll need them for one thing or another.

If you head to Munroe's, right up the street are some fantastic places to catch breakfast while you wait for your bike. Try Belgian Fritz, amazing stuff made there. Within walking distance are a few bike shops to peruse as well.

I'm not sure of Munroe's anymore, a friend of mine had his 4 valve Stelvio there for the cam follower issue, it was there for a year because they didn't know who was going to pay for the repair.  When he got the bike back after the repair, the oil and filter had not been replaced, which also meant the oil pan was not removed and cleaned and who know's what else they didn't do?

Just saying, Mike

[stomatomoto]

Thanks all for weighing in, appreciate the insights, especially the bit about the ECU flash being a dealer thing. Just made the appointment for this Friday at Elk Grove, for 575 f*#king dollars--yeah that's the other reason I wasn't looking forward to it... Must learn how to motorcycle maintenance myself...

I thought only 76 was big on the ethanol bit? Is Chevron doing that as well now? I thought I was avoiding all the extra ethanol and stuff by going mid grade 89...

Yeah Munroe's seems a bit too inattentive for my tastes, nice people but I don't feel like doing business with them, plus riding into SF as a new rider kinda sounds like suicide at the moment.

[canuguzzi]

I'm not sure of Munroe's anymore, a friend of mine had his 4 valve Stelvio there for the cam follower issue, it was there for a year because they didn't know who was going to pay for the repair.  When he got the bike back after the repair, the oil and filter had not been replaced, which also meant the oil pan was not removed and cleaned and who know's what else they didn't do?

Just saying, Mike

Sorry, can't get behind what your friend is claiming. If he left a Stelvio there for a year, there is something else going on and you got only part of the story. I've had several different brands there for service has always been good.

They pointed me to the dealer that had a gel seat when the factory was back ordered. Took my Trophy in with no appointment and the list goes on. When my rear seal went on the Norge, took care if it pronto.

Sounds rather fishy to me, left bike for over a year?  Nah. Don't doubt your word, just don't believe his story as being the the whole story.

[Kev m]

Even if 89 was pure gas and non-ethanol, it doesn't have sufficient octane rating per the factory recommendation, so you may get knock.

[toaster404]

Lubricants really don't wear out during that first interval.  Engine oil will pick up more blow-by crap than later on.  Gears will shed the break in stuff.  Clutch will smell a little, but do be gentle.  Valves I generally pay a good deal more attention to.  Tend to seat and so on, so adjustment often needed early.  If I hear an at-temperature change on any bike, I'll check the valves.  Especially if there's a quiet hole in the valve noise.  Too tight can be very bad. 

As to octane numbers provided, they're a conservative guide.  Much as I would like to believe that 89 = 89 all the time, I've had enough issues over the years to go to stations I know that have a lot of business as much as possible.  I've had "high-test" ping like mad and had years of no-ping in cars with 89 instead of high test.  My 1400 doesn't seem to care about ethanol much, but my old Suzuki hated it.  Would not be surprised if individual bikes had a different tolerance!  Can always pop in some 93 and then hit the 89 for the rest.

On oils, look through the numbers and evaluate.  Many synthetics have effective pour points that are quite low and wick up rather quickly.  The upper number is pretty clear, the lower number has a good deal of noise in it.  Really, the "weight" system leaves a lot to be desired.

Gear box is where really nice synthetic seems to shine.  Do watch anyone putting anything too thick in.  Can create surprising pressures at the surfaces to have too thick a lubricant.

Have fun!   

[guzzied]

Sorry, can't get behind what your friend is claiming. If he left a Stelvio there for a year, there is something else going on and you got only part of the story. I've had several different brands there for service has always been good.

They pointed me to the dealer that had a gel seat when the factory was back ordered. Took my Trophy in with no appointment and the list goes on. When my rear seal went on the Norge, took care if it pronto.

Sounds rather fishy to me, left bike for over a year?  Nah. Don't doubt your word, just don't believe his story as being the the whole story.

Agreed on the fishy to me, but the original Stelvio owner purchased the bike new from Munroe's, after his first service at Munroe's, the bike ran poorly, he took it back and they told him that he messed with the bike and turned the sacred screw on the throttle bodies. He fought with them and they ended up firing the tech that worked on his bike (and also fixing the problem).  Now, he called Munroe's after his bike had the roller cams installed and they insisted the oil was changed, but hum, no oil was charge out on his receipt and his markings were on the oil filter?  Their excuse was, well, the bike was here so long, we must of forgotten to change the oil.

That's why I like doing my own services, but this was a warranty issue.

Mike

[mojohand]

One thing to add to this thread--seems that I remember something in each of my new Guzzis' owners' manuals to the effect that a burning smell coming from the clutch was normal during break-in. My Triumph manual said the same thing. Something to research.

[canuguzzi]

Agreed on the fishy to me, but the original Stelvio owner purchased the bike new from Munroe's, after his first service at Munroe's, the bike ran poorly, he took it back and they told him that he messed with the bike and turned the sacred screw on the throttle bodies. He fought with them and they ended up firing the tech that worked on his bike (and also fixing the problem).  Now, he called Munroe's after his bike had the roller cams installed and they insisted the oil was changed, but hum, no oil was charge out on his receipt and his markings were on the oil filter?  Their excuse was, well, the bike was here so long, we must of forgotten to change the oil.

That's why I like doing my own services, but this was a warranty issue.

Mike

I hear you. I just can't imagine leaving a bike at a dealer for over a year. My experiences with them are good, prices reasonable. Then again, if someone kept my bike for a year over a warranty issue, I'd have a new bike courtesy of either the dealer or the factory.

Never think someone is going to care more about your bike than you. A year seems more like abandonment to me.

I know you're just relating the story as told to you.

[stomatomoto]

 
Guys quick! My bike is in getting it's 620 mile service (at 665 miles, forgive me padre, for I have sinned), what do I ask them about?! I already told them about the ECU map and the clutch stuff that's been mentioned already, but I forgot to mention the gas I've been using. Anything else I need to tell them now? They're giving it a pretty good go-through, so I imagine the'll find anything obvious, but I'm always more concerned by what is not obvious.
 

[Kev m]

If you are at all unsure about the quality/knowledge of this dealer confirm that they are going to retorque the head bolts.

It's such an oddity to do that in this day and age, and it's the only Guzzi that requires it so I can see a shop unfamiliar with Guzzis (even if they carry the brand technically) could forget it.

As for the MAP, I'm not certain that there is a new one for the V7II, but it's worth a quick check by them to confirm you are up to date.

Also, keep in mind on this V7II the transmission capacity is different from the old V7 (actually I THINK they aren't supposed to be changing it on the V7II, but you can confirm that in your owner's manual).

[canuguzzi]

Guys quick! My bike is in getting it's 620 mile service (at 665 miles, forgive me padre, for I have sinned), what do I ask them about?! I already told them about the ECU map and the clutch stuff that's been mentioned already, but I forgot to mention the gas I've been using. Anything else I need to tell them now? They're giving it a pretty good go-through, so I imagine the'll find anything obvious, but I'm always more concerned by what is not obvious.
 

If you went to Elk Grove, you don't need to tell them anything, they know how to perform the service. Just read your checkout paperwork. If you have questions then, ask. This is a lot easier than its being made out to be. They are a good dealer and sell quite a few MGs. My Norge was setup as perfect as cab be contrary to the horror stories some experience elsewhere.

Just let them do their job and verify when you pick it up. They don't care what kind of gas you've been using, just use what is recommended. Just enjoy the bike.