Guzzidiag query (merged)

[Huzo]

I figgured, they are exposed to gas anyway, so it could not hurt anything.
Rick.

Well, not really.
They are upstream of the injectors.

[tris]

Good opportunity to replace the TPS while you're there based on your other thread perhaps.
Standard part for an Alpha IIRC for a fraction of MGs price will do the job

[Huzo]

Good opportunity to replace the TPS while you're there based on your other thread perhaps.
Standard part for an Alpha IIRC for a fraction of MGs price will do the job

What does IIRC mean and how do I know I’m buying the right one ?
I feel a Roper chat, coming on…

[Huzo]

It says “rear throttle position sensor to (sic) low”
Does that mean “off throttle position sensor” ?
Also here’s a diagram of the TPS function over smooth throttle cycle.




jerry built crossword

Out of interest, I notice he “throttle” line, fluctuates a little upon closing. Is that to be expected or indicative of an anomaly in the TPS ?

[Dirk_S]

What does IIRC mean…

Stand back, I got this one:

IIRC = lf I recall

That one took a long time to stick for me, too, FWIW

[Huzo]

Stand back, I got this one:

IIRC = lf I recall

That one took a long time to stick for me, too, FWIW

OMG…LOL. !
FYI I had no idea.
Now that you’ve deciphered it, I’m thinking it may be “If I Recall Correctly…” but that’s just a WAG…

[lazlokovacs]

there was wild debate on the ghetto about this procedure, IIRC the gurus told everyone they were doing it wrong but didn't exactly say what the right procedure is..... 

If you figure it out let me know!!

[cappisj1]

What do dirty throttle body’s look like? I have my norge in pieces now and there is some staining on the tube where the butterfly sits at idle but I wouldn’t call them dirty. 

What exactly needs cleaning on them? I fully expected to have to scrap carbon or rotten fuel out of them.

[pressureangle]

What do dirty throttle body’s look like? I have my norge in pieces now and there is some staining on the tube where the butterfly sits at idle but I wouldn’t call them dirty. 

What exactly needs cleaning on them? I fully expected to have to scrap carbon or rotten fuel out of them.

The important bit is where the throttle blade meets the body wall. When this area gets dirty, it affects air flow at idle - therefore, idle fuel mixture. If bad enough it can make the throttle feel 'sticky' like it pops loose from an idle but is smooth afterwards. (not so much a problem on ours, since the blade doesn't actually touch the wall like cars) Generally the staining and deposits in the rest of the body don't affect anything unless they are very, very bad. On my bike, and on all my throttle body cars for decades, I access the throttle blades and spray what I can get at without disassembly, then spray a little at idle while running any time I change the air filter, just as periodic maintenance.

[Huzo]

What do dirty throttle body’s look like? I have my norge in pieces now and there is some staining on the tube where the butterfly sits at idle but I wouldn’t call them dirty. 

What exactly needs cleaning on them? I fully expected to have to scrap carbon or rotten fuel out of them.

If yours is an early(ish) 2 VPC, can you take a shot or quote the number inscribed on the top of the TPS ?
Below are one shot of a spare set I have and one of the set on my bike.
The ones on the bike look like they’ve been engraved with Leonardo Da Vinci’s appendage.
It wouldn’t happen in a BMW.
Good old Magneti Marelli.





Mine has a blue dot, the spare has a white one…

[Huzo]

there was wild debate on the ghetto about this procedure, IIRC the gurus told everyone they were doing it wrong but didn't exactly say what the right procedure is..... 

If you figure it out let me know!!

If I do mine I’ll give you a shot.
They’ll be as clean as a birds arse…

[cappisj1]

2008 and I have a green paint dot…

[guzzisteve]

This one comes w/a graph on testing unit.

https://ca-cycleworks.com/pf1c.html

[Huzo]

2008 and I have a green paint dot…

Ok thanks.
Dunno the significance of the lower line of text.

[jamesb]

from what I've read re cleaning the throttle bodies its all about recycled crankcase gases and the potential contamination with oil from engines which have been run with the oil level high. apparently oil level should be no higher than midway between dipstick marks. the potential damage from using carb cleaner is of causing damage to electrical components.so if you disconnect the rubber pipes to the stepper motor you could clean the bodies with carb cleaner and then clean the stepper motor with throttle body cleaner. don't forget to remove the air bleed screws and clean their passages as well.

[John Croucher]

I joining the Guzzidiag club.  I bought the hardware, waiting for it to arrive.  Downloaded the three applications software.  The cost to join is actually quite cheap, Guzzi cheap. 

After several modifications to my bike, it is time to give the ignition and fueling a good look.  It all seems so confusing and part of a secret handshake club.  But I believe it is going to be much simpler than it appears.  The first thing I will do is take the Power Commander 3 fuel mixture control off and run only the oem controller.  This will take the extra layer of complication out of the adjustment procedures. 

Should or is an exhaust gas analyzer need or recommended to make adjustments?  If so, what is a good choice for an analyzer that is Guzzi cheap?

The first problem I ran into was downloading the software.  I used the downloads from Lonelec.  They downloaded first try.  When I tried This Old Tractor and others, the computer would get errors on downloading. This worked.   https://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

[tris]

What does IIRC mean and how do I know I’m buying the right one ?
I feel a Roper chat, coming on…

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly

Go here http://www.guzziriders.org/throttle-position-sensor-tps_topic525.html

It's a standard (with plenty of equivalents) car part with a massive Guzzi mothership mark up

[Huzo]

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly

Go here http://www.guzziriders.org/throttle-position-sensor-tps_topic525.html

It's a standard (with plenty of equivalents) car part with a massive Guzzi mothership mark up

Thanks as always Tris.
It’s a pain when there are a dozen different serial #’s for the same item. I’m wondering if I should just throw my spare one on and give it a try…
Is there a way to decipher what the serial numbers mean ?
The PF1C/00 seems common to them, but the hieroglyphics on the second row vary wildly.

[Huzo]

I joining the Guzzidiag club.  I bought the hardware, waiting for it to arrive.  Downloaded the three applications software.  The cost to join is actually quite cheap, Guzzi cheap. 

After several modifications to my bike, it is time to give the ignition and fueling a good look.  It all seems so confusing and part of a secret handshake club.  But I believe it is going to be much simpler than it appears.  The first thing I will do is take the Power Commander 3 fuel mixture control off and run only the oem controller.  This will take the extra layer of complication out of the adjustment procedures. 

Should or is an exhaust gas analyzer need or recommended to make adjustments?  If so, what is a good choice for an analyzer that is Guzzi cheap?

The first problem I ran into was downloading the software.  I used the downloads from Lonelec.  They downloaded first try.  When I tried This Old Tractor and others, the computer would get errors on downloading. This worked.   https://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Exhaust gas analyser is not required for what we do.
I would think that if you were making changes to, or building a map, you’d need one.

[Huzo]

There are two diagnostic plugs on the Norge.
Only one lights up the blue indicator light on the OBD cable. What is the other one for ?

[guzzisteve]

Dash

[Huzo]

Dash

Ok thanks GS…

[tris]

Thanks as always Tris.
It’s a pain when there are a dozen different serial #’s for the same item. I’m wondering if I should just throw my spare one on and give it a try…
Is there a way to decipher what the serial numbers mean ?
The PF1C/00 seems common to them, but the hieroglyphics on the second row vary wildly.

If you go into your local motor factors and ask for a Magnetti PF1C/00 if they're worth anything they'll have the original or a pattern part for small money

Most of the sensors are like that, including O2 sensor in the exhaust.

The big dogs in this business are the car boys, and Guzzi just piggy back on them in the main.

Re throwing your other ICV on.
Looking at the photo and if my eyes are not deceiving me, they look like the alloy body version.
The perceived wisdom when I was looking these things was that the black plastic ones were better
I think that I'd have a  stab at cleaning it first.
Costs you nowt and you can still switch if there's no improvement

[PJPR01]

Having gone thru this stepper motor issue on my 2015 Griso over the last couple of months, I can share a few items...which may or not be relevant to your case.

1.  The plastic Stepper one is almost impossible to open, I was unsuccessful - thankfully at the end.  Good luck if you can open yours, but even so, it may not be easy to put back together as it seems to be spring loaded.  Cleaning it may help, but I seriously doubt it.

2.  Even though I was getting a Stepper Motor error (P0505) along with a SERVICE message and Red Triangle, it turns out that after replacing it with a Ducati one (absolutely don't throw money at a new Guzzi one), the error message was exactly the same.  I bought a used Ducati Stepper for $100 bucks from Ebay, it works just like the plastic one, which I now know is perfectly good as the problem is NOT the mechanics or electrics of the Stepper itself.

3.  I cleaned every bloody electrical connector possibly, even on the ECU, nothing fixed the problem.

4.  There was one isolated case of a Speed sensor on another forum of a fellow a few years ago, (not speedometer sensor) that had caused a Stepper Motor error, so I replaced that as well...no dice.

Ultimately I gave up and took it to Mike at MPH...diagnosis...b ad ECU.  There are 4 pins that connect the stepper via the wiring harness to the ECU...I tried cleaning everything with a fine tooth comb, DeOxit etc...nothing could solve the problem of the ECU.

So...before you go throwing good $ at new pieces of hardware like a new Stepper or sensors, I'd check first to see what error messages you are getting via Guzzidiag.  If you're not getting error messages, and just a fluctuating idle, I'd spend time cleaning mechanical issues or look for a hose that disconnected from the breather or stepper.

Presumably by now, you have the full sequence of TPS Reset, Auto Learning Parameters, Valve Adjustment, TB balancing with Carbtune or Twinmax all under full control to make sure these are all properly set.

[Huzo]

Again thanks to both Paul and Tris.
The stepper is metal bodied and is completely un serviceable with respect to being able to open. I do have a spare, but as previously mentioned it has different numbers, so if I throw it on and get no improvement in the idle, it could be because it’s the wrong one.
Then I still won’t know if the problem is with the original one.
Also.
I note that the TPS on top of the RH throttle body is non adjustable, so can I break the dreaded yellow paint seal and remove it (after marking it’s position EXACTLY), and throw a new one on ?
I fully expect to have to perform another TB balance and reset etc, but that’s quite ok.

[tris]

I just switched my TPS over for a new one and did a TPS reset via GD.

Should be fine as the ECU now knows where "zero" is for the new TPS

[Huzo]

I just switched my TPS over for a new one and did a TPS reset via GD.

Should be fine as the ECU now knows where "zero" is for the new TPS

Ok thank you…