Author Topic: Small block bevel (small seal) ?  (Read 821 times)

Offline lucian

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Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« on: August 11, 2022, 06:34:51 PM »
Looking for the small inner seal for a v50 bevel box. I have a spare big seal but have had no luck sourcing the small one inside the  housing. Tia  dave

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2022, 07:18:13 PM »
V50 inner seal is same as a Tonti (early) forkseal. 35/47/7 I think

Yes, GU 90403547, looked it up
Looked that up

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1362
« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 07:27:43 PM by guzzisteve »
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Offline lucian

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2022, 08:07:52 PM »
 :bow: Thank you GS

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2022, 08:37:12 PM »
Well, that one is better for rotating shafts than a fork seal but I have used them w/no issues.
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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2022, 08:37:12 PM »

Offline lucian

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2022, 06:36:42 AM »
Didn't realize I had two spares right in the front forks!  :grin: Thanks again, order placed along with some gaskets and lock tabs and schnorr washers. Going to attempt the oil passage mod while I'm in here.  Fortunately the pinion bearings seem fine with no discernable end play. Someone has been in here, before probably to replace the big seal . all but one of the lock tabs on the bearing plate were staked, the others all missing or broken.
 
Question; should I remove the lock plates on the crown wheel and substitute with schnorr washers or install the washers over the lock plates?

         Also , I would imagine I will need two gaskets , one on either side of the shim stack?  Whoever was in there before used black rtv  Thanks again ,Dave

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2022, 08:20:11 AM »
Didn't realize I had two spares right in the front forks!  :grin: Thanks again, order placed along with some gaskets and lock tabs and schnorr washers. Going to attempt the oil passage mod while I'm in here.  Fortunately the pinion bearings seem fine with no discernable end play. Someone has been in here, before probably to replace the big seal . all but one of the lock tabs on the bearing plate were staked, the others all missing or broken.
 
Question; should I remove the lock plates on the crown wheel and substitute with schnorr washers or install the washers over the lock plates?

         Also , I would imagine I will need two gaskets , one on either side of the shim stack?  Whoever was in there before used black rtv  Thanks again ,Dave

I would remove the lockplates and use schnorr washers instead.

Use the same number and placement of gaskets as there was when you disassembled it. Usually that's two - one on either side of the shim - but I have seen small-block rear drives with two shims and three gaskets.
Charlie

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2022, 10:19:44 AM »
^^^^ What Charlie said, of course. I really like the 3 piece shnorr washers, but they are expensive (not Guzzi content) at about a buck apiece the last time I used them.. Nordlock?
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2022, 10:35:12 AM »
Yep, use schnorr washers instead of tabs. Cost is unimportant if you want it right. Better lube w/hole drilled.
Just like Charlie & Chuck says.
Also better to use rotating seal instead of fork seal.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 10:36:31 AM by guzzisteve »
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2022, 11:37:57 AM »
^^^^ What Charlie said, of course. I really like the 3 piece shnorr washers, but they are expensive (not Guzzi content) at about a buck apiece the last time I used them.. Nordlock?

Yep. https://www.mcmaster.com/washers/washer-type~wedge-lock/system-of-measurement~metric/
Charlie

Offline lucian

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2022, 05:20:08 PM »
Thank you guys. really appreciate the help and the links. This bevel has two shims but only one gasket on the gear housing side of the shims.  The bearing side of the shims was smeared with rtv sealant . I ordered three gaskets just encase and was thinking maybe a gasket on either side of the shims with a thin smear of black rtv between the two shims. One of which i will invert to accommodate the oil mod. Will post up any progress when the parts arrive . WG rocks!

Offline lucian

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2022, 06:12:32 PM »
Got the dirty work over with today , nothing more fun than cleaning up dirty,  gear oiled parts. Gotta love Purple Power cleaner. Success on the drilled oil passage thanks to Chuck and Sed's excellent posts on the subject. You get a certain appreciation of just how soft cast aluminum is when you run a hardened steel drill bit through it. This v50 has been a labor of love since day one. Originally bought it as a non runner for a starter bike for my daughter. It has needed pretty much everything you can think of but with every improvement it continues to earn its keep with  the enjoyment it supplies in abundance while it's on the road again. I've owned a few 500 cc bikes over the years but none come close to the gentle yet capable nature of this little bike. Parts are on order and everything came apart as it should. I need to source a new big bearing as the original has some rust on the bottom of the outer race. Here's a few pics of todays progress, Thank you to all of the WG contributors  :bow:











Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2022, 07:21:05 PM »
Attaboy.. :thumb:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2022, 12:24:12 AM »
Yep, use schnorr washers instead of tabs. Cost is unimportant if you want it right. Better lube w/hole drilled.
Just like Charlie & Chuck says.
Also better to use rotating seal instead of fork seal.

Correct and better to use a unidirectional seal as well because I'm betting like every OEM Guzzi engine and gearbox seal I've ever seen it'll be a uni directional. using a Bi directional seal is a risk but ok if the seal is easy to get to and replace. There's a reason just about every hard to access seal in the automotive and engineering world is uni directional.

Phil
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Offline sign216

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2022, 02:50:39 PM »
Dave,

Looks like you've got some learned advice already on this.  However, when the Yahoo Smallblock group was disbanded I resurrected it on Groups.io, see:  https://groups.io/g/Moto-Guzzi-SmallBlock

It's not a replacement for WildGuzzi, it's just smallblock specific.

Joe
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https://groups.io/g/Moto-Guzzi-750

Offline lucian

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Re: Small block bevel (small seal) ?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2022, 04:01:52 PM »
Dave,

Looks like you've got some learned advice already on this.  However, when the Yahoo Smallblock group was disbanded I resurrected it on Groups.io, see:  https://groups.io/g/Moto-Guzzi-SmallBlock

It's not a replacement for WildGuzzi, it's just smallblock specific.

Joe

 Joe, Got to get it up to snuff for the Star Drive In day :grin: Thanks for the link ,I checked out the site, lots of good stuff there and a few familiar characters as well Hope you get some good weather next weekend. Hope to see you there.

 

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