1100i Sport Carb mistery

[GuzziFuria]

Ciao Tutti,

My name is Carlo, new on this fantastic forum, and hopefully someone might be able to resolve this mystery I have....

Came across a 1997 1100i Sport, which 2nd owner mentioned it had been converted to a carb set up... (which I think he is mistaken, he got the bike as is from 1st owner, who bought it with carb option from factory)

Furthering my research, I have never seen such carb set up conversion on a 1100 Sport, since it basically looks very much like factory...  Also these are not the usual Dellorto carbs but rather some kind of CV carb, installed professionally with 2 electric wires/carb...

Could it be possible that in 1997 when ordering the 1100i Sport, a factory carb set up option was still available and thus Moto Guzzi would fit the Sport with its latest best carbs available instead of the regular Dellortos??

I also found an online pic of a 1997 sport with exact same carbs, see last pic...

Many thanks for the help
Best
Carlo

[yogidozer]

I have a 95 sport, Dellorto carbs. Never seen a factory set up that looks like that.
But I might be wrong, just never seen that set up before.

[malik]

Mystery indeed. There should be someone along who knows more (not difficult), but Keihin FCR flat slides were a popular aftermarket choice for the carbed Sports. At least the airbox has been retained.

[pete roper]

Are they Keihins? I'm not overly familiar with them but just comparing them with some googled up images they look different??? The plastic tops make me think many Mikunis of some sort?

Pete

[yogidozer]

They look like Mikunis, but I've never heard them as a factory option.

[Murray]

Ciao Tutti,

My name is Carlo, new on this fantastic forum, and hopefully someone might be able to resolve this mystery I have....

Came across a 1997 1100i Sport, which 2nd owner mentioned it had been converted to a carb set up... (which I think he is mistaken, he got the bike as is from 1st owner, who bought it with carb option from factory)

Furthering my research, I have never seen such carb set up conversion on a 1100 Sport, since it basically looks very much like factory...  Also these are not the usual Dellorto carbs but rather some kind of CV carb, installed professionally with 2 electric wires/carb...

Could it be possible that in 1997 when ordering the 1100i Sport, a factory carb set up option was still available and thus Moto Guzzi would fit the Sport with its latest best carbs available instead of the regular Dellortos??

I also found an online pic of a 1997 sport with exact same carbs, see last pic...

Many thanks for the help
Best
Carlo

Never heard of it although may depend on the market and orginal polution laws, there was some angst about how well the 1100i ran when it first came out and this may of been someones solution as there was a lack of knowledge around FI at the time in some places with various cries of you can't do anything with it. In corners of this board 20 plus years on there are still people claiming the exact same thing.

The carbs look like the CV's orginally fitted to the Ducati 900ss of the era. They might of been new but they were a bit crap no accel pump and no direct link betewwen throttle and fuel delivery so the motor is likely to have all the instantanious response of a ships telegraph. Wires could be for ignition advance pourposes. Ill point out the bar setup has been modifyed quiet a bit so the bike isn't exactly as delivered from the factory.

[oldbike54]

 Murray has it 

 Dusty

[Tony F]

How does the bike run Carlo?

A CV carb conversion does sound a bit out there but I have seen a very successful conversion a friend of mine did fitting CV flat slide Mikunis (ex a GSXR Suzuki) to Laverda RGS1000. Quite a bit of work to mount them and set it up but it runs very well.

It looks like two cables running to the carb, presumably throttle and choke.

Tony

[GuzziFuria]

Thanks all for y'all's interest...

I confirm this is not factory set up.

Found out these are Harley Davidson carburetors...  Not sure if I like it as I am a crazy Guzzi purist...  Would have preferred Dellortos..

These were put on by the 1st owner, an established HD(I suppose) mechanic out of NJ...  In his own words "This bike runs great on these carbs and needs nothing else".  Due to health issues he decided to sell it to 2nd owner..

The 2nd owner, a nice fellow in his 35s, experienced rider, also rides a MV Augusta Brutale, mentioned that this Sport absolutely flies, he had it to 120MPH and was afraid to punch 5th gear because he just had the bike for 2 month and still learning to have a feel for it...
Selling because wants a Ducati 999 S... 

Am very familiar with all the 70-80 Guzzi and always had an eye on a Sport but only carburetor model...  Yet the cool thing is this is a 1997 with all the better updates, reverse forks, larger rear disc brake, 17" rear wheel, and helical gear box... Has 38K miles, comes with the original throttle bodies, no leaks anywhere, motor runs great and powerful.

Other mystery, wonder why it wasn't equipped with the front Oil Cooler...

What would you guys say a fair price would be?

Molto Grazie

Best
Carlo

[Mr Revhead]

If he's set it up right and really does run well, then all is good. But I wouldn't be telling people is has Harley carbs 
I would really want to ride it to be sure though. If it comes with all the stock parts, at least you can restore it. Plenty of info now to get them running sweet.

As for the oil cooler, maybe it live din a cooler climate? I have no idea why you're want to take it off. I live in another country so can't offer an opinion on price sorry. But to me it would be worth less than an original one. The missing cooler is worry for me.

[Devildog]

A mystery, yes.
I'm guessing the oil cooler was damaged and removed. Curious if the oil lines were just coupled together?
'Collector' value requires originality and good condition.
And she is a beauty, but lots has been modified. If the carbs work well just ride it and enjoy, the cost to make her original would exceed the 'collector' value.......id buy her if she was as nice in person as the pics look.
I would check that the raised bars clear the front fairing at full lock.

[oldbike54]

 Technically they aren't HD carbs , although Harley may have used them for a couple of years .

 Dusty

[wirespokes]

You posted photos other than your own bike. Which is yours? The one with modified bars or the stock one?

I know what you mean about staying with Dells, they look right and perform well when jetted properly. They also required a Superman grip to hold them open, but altering the springs fixes that.

I don't have any experience with the 1000Sport, but the LM 1000 can get mileage between the low 40s up to 50mpg. I'd think you should see similar. If it runs strong, then ride it. If not, install Dells or something else.

Yeah, Dusty, technically they're not HD, even though they say it on the side. Probably Keihan or Mikuni. A little work with a mill or file could fix that. I've got a BMW with flat slide Mikunis and it's funny the absence of markings - they don't say anywhere what size or model they are. They came that way - I didn't do it! I swear!

[Tusayan]

The workmanship looks good, and with the TPS in use you’ll still get the stock ignition map that advances the spark timing considerably at small throttle openings. That likely provides a benefit in fuel economy.

This is a clever conversion in that the carbs appear to utilize the same Marelli TPS as the stock EFI that came on the bike.  The later model Japanese CV carbs like these work well and I’d guess the bike is a pleasure to ride.  It should also be lighter than stock with no fuel pump etc.  I would not want Dellortos in comparison with these. Make sure the fuel petcock and fuel line setup is done properly.  The EFI fuel presssure regulator still appears to be installed on the right fuel fitting, which is a bit odd.

I knew of a similar yellow Sport that had 40-mm Bing CV carbs back fitted and it lost 2 HP on the top end but became very tractable down low.

I’d consider reinstalling the oil cooler, but jetted correctly it’s probably going to run much cooler than as Guzzi shipped it so I doubt you’d have any trouble as is.  Earlier Carb Sports did not have the oil cooler and made the same power.

[rocker59]

Harley CV carb conversions have been popular on all sorts of bikes over the years.  Some people like them.

Due to some problems with the EFI mapping on the 1997 Sport 1100i, I recall seeing some people make this Harley CV carb conversion on Sport 1100s.

It's not a mystery.  And, it's not factory.  It's a period modification to a poor running EFI machine.

[rocker59]

Technically they aren't HD carbs , although Harley may have used them for a couple of years .

 Dusty

HD used CV carbs from at least 1984 to 2003, on EVOs until everything was converted to EFI.

I've seen people use these OEM carbs on all kinds of conversions because the HD people back in the day were all into S&S carb conversions, which made the CV carbs widely available on the used market.

[oldbike54]

HD used CV carbs from at least 1984 to 2003, on EVOs until everything was converted to EFI.

I've seen people use these OEM carbs on all kinds of conversions because the HD people back in the day were all into S&S carb conversions, which made the CV carbs widely available on the used market.

 Yep .

 HD used Keihin as a supplier for years , those are Keihin CV carbs , Funny thing is , with a minimum of tuning they made a much better street carburetor than the S&S , in fact the fastest Evo around Muskogee was running Keihins . Honestly , the real reason most HD riders switched to S&S was because they knew the stock carbs were Japanese , one even admitted as much to a couple of us . One of the guys present (who happened to be a HD rider) kinda laughed and said something about the forks and electrical system being Japanese 

 Dusty

[Murray]

If you really wanted to do something with the setup I'd either go back to FI there are plenty of aftermarket solutions that work very well, or get a set of FCR's, the delorto's would be a serious step backwards IMO.

[GuzziFuria]

If he's set it up right and really does run well, then all is good. But I wouldn't be telling people is has Harley carbs 
I would really want to ride it to be sure though. If it comes with all the stock parts, at least you can restore it. Plenty of info now to get them running sweet.

As for the oil cooler, maybe it live din a cooler climate? I have no idea why you're want to take it off. I live in another country so can't offer an opinion on price sorry. But to me it would be worth less than an original one. The missing cooler is worry for me.

No doubt... would never want to tell they are HD carbs...  Will probably file markings off...
Will try it out...
Yes I too does not like the oil radiator cooler is missing...  She came out of New Jersey so cooler, but now in the South Florida Heat :((

[GuzziFuria]

A mystery, yes.
I'm guessing the oil cooler was damaged and removed. Curious if the oil lines were just coupled together?
'Collector' value requires originality and good condition.
And she is a beauty, but lots has been modified. If the carbs work well just ride it and enjoy, the cost to make her original would exceed the 'collector' value.......id buy her if she was as nice in person as the pics look.
I would check that the raised bars clear the front fairing at full lock.

I posted a pic above of the front of the oil pan showing oil cooler holes looking like they've been factory plugged? not sure...  Or maybe original oil pan was damage so the 1st owner ordered a new one and didn't bother to transfer the oil cooler...
Point well take about "Collector" value...  To find out if the price offering is fair for it not being 100% original...
Engine sounds strong with these carbs, but will definitively go for a test ride...  She really looks very clean in person...
The pic with the raised bars and tank bag is not the bike, that is a pic I found online, happens to have the same carb set up...

Grazie

[GuzziFuria]

Technically they aren't HD carbs , although Harley may have used them for a couple of years .

 Dusty

Thanks, very interesting

[GuzziFuria]

You posted photos other than your own bike. Which is yours? The one with modified bars or the stock one?

I know what you mean about staying with Dells, they look right and perform well when jetted properly. They also required a Superman grip to hold them open, but altering the springs fixes that.

I don't have any experience with the 1000Sport, but the LM 1000 can get mileage between the low 40s up to 50mpg. I'd think you should see similar. If it runs strong, then ride it. If not, install Dells or something else.

Yeah, Dusty, technically they're not HD, even though they say it on the side. Probably Keihan or Mikuni. A little work with a mill or file could fix that. I've got a BMW with flat slide Mikunis and it's funny the absence of markings - they don't say anywhere what size or model they are. They came that way - I didn't do it! I swear!

Sorry for the confusion...  The stock clip on bar photos is the bike am looking into...  The photo with raised bars and bag on tank is not the bike, this is just a pic found online that happens to have the same carb set up...
Some work with a file is definitively on the list

Grazie

[GuzziFuria]

The workmanship looks good, and with the TPS in use you’ll still get the stock ignition map that advances the spark timing considerably at small throttle openings. That likely provides a benefit in fuel economy.

This is a clever conversion in that the carbs appear to utilize the same Marelli TPS as the stock EFI that came on the bike.  The later model Japanese CV carbs like these work well and I’d guess the bike is a pleasure to ride.  It should also be lighter than stock with no fuel pump etc.  I would not want Dellortos in comparison with these. Make sure the fuel petcock and fuel line setup is done properly.  The EFI fuel presssure regulator still appears to be installed on the right fuel fitting, which is a bit odd.

I knew of a similar yellow Sport that had 40-mm Bing CV carbs back fitted and it lost 2 HP on the top end but became very tractable down low.

I’d consider reinstalling the oil cooler, but jetted correctly it’s probably going to run much cooler than as Guzzi shipped it so I doubt you’d have any trouble as is.  Earlier Carb Sports did not have the oil cooler and made the same power.

Thanks!  Very interesting points...
Will check the petcock and fuel lines..
Oil cooler definitively considering re-installing...  Bike came from NJ and is now in the South FL heat...

[GuzziFuria]

Harley CV carb conversions have been popular on all sorts of bikes over the years.  Some people like them.

Due to some problems with the EFI mapping on the 1997 Sport 1100i, I recall seeing some people make this Harley CV carb conversion on Sport 1100s.

It's not a mystery.  And, it's not factory.  It's a period modification to a poor running EFI machine.

Interesting, thanks for your input,,,

[GuzziFuria]

Yep .

 HD used Keihin as a supplier for years , those are Keihin CV carbs , Funny thing is , with a minimum of tuning they made a much better street carburetor than the S&S , in fact the fastest Evo around Muskogee was running Keihins . Honestly , the real reason most HD riders switched to S&S was because they knew the stock carbs were Japanese , one even admitted as much to a couple of us . One of the guys present (who happened to be a HD rider) kinda laughed and said something about the forks and electrical system being Japanese 

 Dusty

Interesting to find out that these are actually Keihin...

Grazie

[GuzziFuria]

If you really wanted to do something with the setup I'd either go back to FI there are plenty of aftermarket solutions that work very well, or get a set of FCR's, the delorto's would be a serious step backwards IMO.

Bike runs great with current set up, still have to take her for a ride.  Going back to FI not sure if she'll run as good.
Agreed about the Delortos
FCR great carbs but little pricy for me

Grazie

[rocker59]

Bike runs great with current set up, still have to take her for a ride.  Going back to FI not sure if she'll run as good.
Agreed about the Delortos
FCR great carbs but little pricy for me

Grazie

If the bike is sorted and running great, don't mess with it.  Sounds like someone took some time and set it up right.

The Keihin CV carbs as used on Harleys are actually really nice carbs.