The heart wants what the heart wants. My choice of bikes are adventure/do everything "Swiss Army Knife" class of motorcycles. I put my name on the list to buy a V 85 when I became aware that this bike was coming. I am coming on 2 years of ownership and extremely pleased with my choice. I would think that with the "new" 850 motor that a sport touring machine would be a strong possibility for people who like to tour but don't like Adventure style bikes. Probably long life ahead with the V7 bikes and upgraded motors. I am not a cruiser guy, so can't really speak to that. From my perspective, with the world wide success of the V 85, I think the future looks better for Moto Guzzi than it has in quite some time. YMMV.But does totally dropping the bigger blocks make sense?
Piaggio is part of the Immsi group. Looking at these numbers from the last 5 years, anyone with any type of business experience can predict what's going to happen within the next 4-5.
(https://i.ibb.co/d0hkR6B/pia.png) (https://ibb.co/d0hkR6B)
Up and down ?
Dusty
I am not a big block guy. My bikes of choice have been in the 500 - 1000 cc range. I am not really qualified to say. I have always been "intrigued" by people who ride 700 lb and up motorcycles. I feel you can tour very well on a 500 lb./80 hp motorcycle. I don't know if the future of motorcycles in general is for bikes over 1000 cc. Like I said, not really qualified to comment. Do you feel there is enough of a demand for this type/size of bike?I do Tommy. I’ve toured on the heavier touring bikes as well as the lighter bikes you prefer. Hands down, there is no comparison between a 1400+ CC , 850 lb bike loaded with 400+ pounds of flesh and luggage to the smaller bikes for 500+ mile days of cross country touring. Yes you can tour the country on a 500 and less cc and pound bike but to say they are equal is questionable at best.
I'm betting in the next few years MG will pump billions of dollars into creating a reliable worldwide dealer network plus working creating new motorcycles that are old but new and with lots of new tech but no tech. Piaggio will support warranty claims, back dealers and become #1 worldwide in customer service. MG will in the coming years will expand at a rate faster than the universe did during the big bang outpacing all other manufacturers combined.
Here's a slightly different take, decentralised manufacturering of spares for the Piaggio group, each contient has a facility, 3d printers, 3D milling machines, lathes. You need bit XYZ, order goes to the local facility, they bring up the gerber file and stamp one out. Need a part thats comepley obsolete and unobtainable sned your sample into the facility they scan it and manufacture it the file goes onto the world wide data base so if someone else needs the same thing, thier local facility pulls the file out of the database and away they go. No need to wait for shipping or guess when Italy is on holidays.Interesting take👍
I think the 1400 didn't take off the way they hoped on most of the Guzzi social media sites they are basically V7 forums except for those dedicated to individual models. I understand completely why they discontinued it.
If my business had these number percentages, I'd expect no change. No new product lines. No new services. I'd more than likely just be offering "the same old same"...
So, either they keep doing what they're doing now at the same pace or they completely fold. I see no room here for new product development, R&D, expansions, marketing, etc, without going into major loan debt.
If my business had these number percentages, I'd expect no change. No new product lines. No new services. I'd more than likely just be offering "the same old same"...
So, either they keep doing what they're doing now at the same pace or they completely fold. I see no room here for new product development, R&D, expansions, marketing, etc, without going into major loan debt.
They're selling nothing interesting to me.
Ncdan: I owned a Honda ST 1100 for 22 + years. It was my two up touring machine and put 50 K miles on it. Fully loaded and two up could cruise all day long at 85 - 90 mph or more, easily. Traveled on that bike from Ohio to Banff, PEI, and Key West, and points in between. I never could see a need for anything more.I totally agree Tommy as its a 1100 and a high torque and HP at that, plenty capabilities for a touring machine as the 1100 Guzzi is. This is quite a bit different than the motors Guzzi is leaning towards now, wouldn’t you say?
They're selling nothing interesting to me.Roger that LR, that’s where I’m at as well👍
No one can accurately predict the future...Never can be a while JJ. There may come a day we can’t get gasoline 🤔😂👍
However, I can GUARANTEE you that I will NOT be owning an "electric Moto Guzzi" in my lifetime... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :shocked: :shocked: :huh: :huh:
Uh , electric vehicles are bad fast .
Dusty
As for the electrics, they only work for someone in an urban environment and not made for the long haul.
As per the comment on lightweight bikes for the long haul, been in a 40 knot crosswind riding a light bike? Heavier is better for that scenario. Personally I'd like to see Moto Guzzi do a V-4 water cooled cruiser bike. One that weighs in at 620lbs and could be anywhere form 1000cc to 1500cc. And with a single sided CARC shaft and larger gas tank than my (new) Eldo had. Still make the 850's and improve on them. As for the electrics, they only work for someone in an urban environment and not made for the long haul.
Ncdan: Yup. Totally agree. I also don't do 2 up anymore so that has eliminated a need for a bigger motor/hp at this stage of my life. I have never experienced the 1400 so like I said, not really qualified to comment on that. Just my opinion on what I read and what I and my friends like, doesn't seem to be much interest in the larger bikes. Everyone should buy what they want. The market place speaks and the manufacturers react. Time will tell.I’m with ya Tom, I’m also riding solo now and now that I’ve got two bikes that weigh in a little over 600 lb and is in the CC range of 1000- 1100, I’ll probably never go back to a 800-900 pounder👍
Never can be a while JJ. There may come a day we can’t get gasoline 🤔😂👍
Well, net income is up which makes me wonder if some other costs are run thru Guzzi for many different accounting reasons. Wouldn't be the first time costs get allocated in creative ways. Also makes me think that some of the R and D for the V85 will now level out and those columns will change.
As for their US future, the dealer network issue KILLS them. When I'm in a room with 20 riders 19 of them lie the bike but would NEVER own one. The reception is there is no where to take it. Mind, most ride Harleys and BMW's so I understand why they feel that way. I'm half kidding, but only half.
And Guzzi N/A lost a a, IMO, very knowledgeable and key player in 2nd half 2020. Not at all a positive step.
The future of Moto Guzzi is electric. As it is for all other motorcycle manufacturers. When everybody uses the same motor how do you do product differentiation? I suspect a lot of brands are going away.
Mike
Personally, I think electric vehicles are a pipe dream. The IC engine is fully mature technology and works extremely well. We have a trillion dollar infrastructure of gas stations and all the rest developed to service that tech. We are swimming in oil for the long foreseeable future. Electric is struggling to even come close to matching the performance of IC, and nobody thinks it will ever be radically superior (e.g. electric vehicles aren’t going to create a 175 mph superhighway)I pretty much can agree with your take on this mr smith, especially on the EV/IC take.
I’d change my mind if the pre-tax true price of gasoline got to $12/gallon and stayed there. But even if the price a fuel created a powerful incentive for electric, as soon as a substantial percentage switched to electric, wouldn’t the price of gas collapse with the weaker demand? Not clear to me where the equilibrium would be.
As to Guzzi, I’m surprised they have lasted this long.
Sorry. Maybe I had too many grumpy pills this morning
I pretty much can agree with your take on this mr smith, especially on the EV/IC take.
As far as MG is concerned, there are reasons that the company does not seem capable of growth. Some of it is the fault of the companies that have owned it and some of it is the inherent issues that tend to plague most every model they come out with.
Personally I can’t believe that a motorcycle company can complete with the rest of the market with a limited CC motor of 850. I also believe that they can’t stay competitive without a bigger tourer, both Sport and cruiser style. There are simply too much of the riding public in these type of bikes and not so called ADVENTURE BIKES. Not knocking these monster dirt road warriors, I just don’t believe they will hold the brand up, these and the 700s. I could definitely be found wrong and the future will be the only judge.
Good conversation👍
I'm tempted to think like you and wonder. Personally I think a 1000-1200cc water-cooled CARC would be the answer. You wouldn't need the cubes of the 1400 and you would be set with performance and emissions for a long time. This along with the smallblock variants would deliver what most of the world wants, just not the super-heavyweight touring bikes and frankly, and who cares for now and maybe forever I mean I dunno even what BMW sells of the big-big bikes. They make their lionshare 1250 down right?!?I agree and no it doesn’t have to be 1400 or bigger but it’s going to have to exceed a 850 to stay in the race, overall. Not saying that the 850 in not a big enough mill, especially in some platforms and it’s plenty big enough for any style bike for me at this point of of my life. I’m just saying all around the motorcycle community as a hole that these motor size questions apply.
Just look at the Harley Pan Am - if THEY can do it, why not Guzzi.
I think the prognostications on Guzzi's demise are well overstated. This is a niche company that makes niche products. They have never been a sales behemoth or had much of a footprint outside esoteric circles of enthusiasts (beside their short stint supplying bikes to CA highway patrol). Judging from their dealer network and support, it doesnt even seem like they want to move beyond that (in the US at least).You’re right about them not continuing to make bikes that does not sell, just look at the 1400s.
There are plenty of companies who make their hay selling quirky/retro/niche products to those who want them, and dont really offer anything outside that to attract other buyers/demographics.
For example, I have this espresso machine.. This company is now owned by Iily, but for a long time they were indy and made only retro espresso machines. They eventually got bought out by a big company and became just one part of their product mix (kinda like MG and piaggio)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1y0AAOSwAqhgRoTX/s-l640.jpg)
Is it the best espresso machine on the market? Hell no. Does it have the strongest pump, the best boiler, does it pull the most consistent shots? No. But it's passable/competitive if operated correctly, it is very basic to use, it has no worthless bells & whistles, no 'convenience features' no timers, no automatic frothing settings. Just an on/off switch and a brew switch and a toggle hi/low/ temp control. Plus is looks funky and retro and its unique.
I think Guzzi fills a similar niche, they sell a few thousand bikes a year, and at least pre-- they were making the parent company money, and were trending in an ok direction. Not every motorcycle company can be Honda. That's just peachy for me.
As for the big blocks going away, I dont really care. The current gen has very similar engine layout, the 850 in the V85 is almost a strong as my 1100 Breva, and the bike weighs 100# less.
If people wanted more CARC bikes and 1400 cruisers, they probably would have sold instead of languishing on dealer floors. Moto Guzzi has a strong seller in the v7 that pays homage to the company history, and the v85 and v9 are good variants off that. I dont know what ya'll expect. They arent going to continue making bikes that dont sell.
As for the big blocks going away, I dont really care. The current gen has very similar engine layout, the 850 in the V85 is almost a strong as my 1100 Breva, and the bike weighs 100# less.
If people wanted more CARC bikes and 1400 cruisers, they probably would have sold instead of languishing on dealer floors. Moto Guzzi has a strong seller in the v7 that pays homage to the company history, and the v85 and v9 are good variants off that. I dont know what ya'll expect. They arent going to continue making bikes that dont sell.
Maybe I am just old school, but I just don't see a Moto Guzzi looking like this electric ZERO motorcycle...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :shocked: :shocked: :huh: :huh:
(https://i.ibb.co/T2CBd7z/Screen-Shot-2021-04-19-at-7-52-53-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/T2CBd7z)
Kev, I think the guys at FBF were adding a few HP to make their customers feel good. Pete Roper said that about the most you could get out of the 2v, without putting major time and money in, was 75hp. If you were getting 75 out of a bone stock B1100, you had a very beefy motor indeed.
I was talking to one of my forum Pals last night and after our conversation ended a question became apparent to me, what is the future of the moto Guzzi brand of motorcycle.
They no longer produce the newest line, 1400s, which was their future for touring and cruiser bikes at the time of introduction. They no longer offer the ole work horse 1100 series, which was used in most all of the versions of riding needs and desires of Guzzi riders, so what’s left?
Personally for the kind of bikes I prefer being cruiser/ tourers, the future looks kind of bleak:(.
What say my fellow Guzzi enthusiast?
Moto Guzzi
Established 1921
Going out of business since 1922
Dusty
But does totally dropping the bigger blocks make sense?
I'm betting in the next few years MG will pump billions of dollars into creating a reliable worldwide dealer network plus working creating new motorcycles that are old but new and with lots of new tech but no tech. Piaggio will support warranty claims, back dealers and become #1 worldwide in customer service. MG will in the coming years will expand at a rate faster than the universe did during the big bang outpacing all other manufacturers combined.
Or they will go tits up.
I am not a big block guy. My bikes of choice have been in the 500 - 1000 cc range. I am not really qualified to say. I have always been "intrigued" by people who ride 700 lb and up motorcycles. I feel you can tour very well on a 500 lb./80 hp motorcycle. I don't know if the future of motorcycles in general is for bikes over 1000 cc. Like I said, not really qualified to comment. Do you feel there is enough of a demand for this type/size of bike?
they bring up the gerber file and stamp one out.
Ncdan: I owned a Honda ST 1100 for 22 + years. It was my two up touring machine and put 50 K miles on it. Fully loaded and two up could cruise all day long at 85 - 90 mph or more, easily. Traveled on that bike from Ohio to Banff, PEI, and Key West, and points in between. I never could see a need for anything more.
The dealership network, or the lack of quality dealerships is probably the biggest problem. The false perception of the lousy quality of Italian products is another which is not an easy fix.
kk
Am I the only one who thinks a larger EURO 5 motor will come down the pike? Or thinks the 1400 was canned due to regulations and a clean sheet design is coming?
The 1400 was just a bit past the limit of stone axe reliability , the crankshaft was stressed at 1200 CC's in the later NTX Stelvios . Same with the SB , yeah , you might get a few cubes W/O problems , but unless MG redesigns the crank and cases for more bearing , a much bigger SB is gonna go boom.I could go there also Dusty, maybe also offer a more cruiser style also.
Give me an 850 in a sport touring set up , something with decent bags and fairing .
Dusty
Well, there is this American motorcycle company that has successfully made that their business plan for 118 years.
They will continue as they always have being just one step away from greatness. Never reaching greatness, but always close.You know RV, that’s just about the most reasonable and acceptable explanation of the brand as I e ever heard.
They will continue to do everything they can to drive existing customers away and continually make it difficult for new customers to take the leap to buy their bikes by not supporting their struggling dealer base.
They seem to have survived 100 years using this plan, so it must be valid!
So, you two agree. Heavy touring bikes work better! (note weight and displacement of the ST1100...)Well Jerry, that depends on if one considers a ST1100 a heavy touring bike? After riding an 03 1450 electric glide all over the Easter US, I don’t consider the 1100 a heavy touring bike. However I consider it a totally acceptable touring bike. If this makes sense??
"Though big and heavy—61.2 inches between the axles, and depending on the model anywhere from 679 to 737 pounds wet—the ST1100 worked well enough on smooth back roads to keep riders entertained. The 1,085cc “flying” four had the same kind of low-end grunt as its cousins, cranking out a claimed 79 lb-ft of torque and about 100 horsepower. A quartet of carbs nestled between the cylinder banks provided glitch-free fueling, and the 7.4-gallon gas tank kept them fed for up to 300 miles between stops."
A Look Back: 1991-2002 Honda ST1100
By
Jerry Smith - November 16, 2017
RIDER magazine
Am I the only one who thinks the 1400 is not dead? True it's not being used in any 21s, but that doesn't mean it won't show up as a reworked 2022 or 2023. I mean look at the american car companies, they have been killing and then rebirthing various v8 motors for decades!Good point BC!
Rumor has it the engineers are prototyping an X layout using a slightly modified crankcase and 4 of the 850 cylinders working out to 1700 CC's .Too big for my needs??
Dusty
Well, that's true. But here are a few thoughts.I got your point Tommy on the replacement issue and I’m in total agreement 👍👍👍
HD's motorcycle sales peaked 15 years ago, and have dropped 40% since. HD's laid off 700 employees last year. HD's is currently in the process of reducing their product line by 30% and has experienced 17 straight quarters of sales decline. HD has known for quite some time that it needs to reach a younger customer. The problem is that demographic doesn't necessarily want the same things in a motorcycle that HD's older base values.
HD's will continue to make big bore bikes. Just not as many, because it is a changing market place. HD's will survive and I applaud them for diversifying with the new PanAm and moving into the future with an electric bike. As another poster pointed out, if you are going to buy a big cruiser/bagger/touring type bike, I would think you would go with HD or even Indian that has a substantial dealer network nationwide that can support your ride while on a long haul. Personally I don't think there is a large enough demand for MG's buyers to pick the 1400 over the previous options. Past history of how they languished on the sales floor and didn't sell well I think would support that.
Regarding the ST 1100. Point I was trying to make with Ncdan was that 1100 cc vs 1400 cc (300 cc less) was more than adequate for me to accomplish the job of two up touring. Your stats are appreciated: it was heavy, heavier than I preferred even at 1100 cc's. As soon as my two up days were over, I transitioned to a smaller displacement bike that could easily do highway speeds of 80 mph in comfort and shed about 175 pounds.
There will always be a need for large displacement bikes for touring. I just don't think there will continue to be as large of a demand as in the past because of the changing demographics and technologies.
Too big??
Given the issues that several different members had with 1400’s, I’m on the side of “no great loss”.Agreeded GG on the opinion that bigger is not always better 👍
Also. Please understand I am not trying to be rude or condescending or anything. But thinking “bigger is better” is dated thinking. How many here own new cars or trucks with smaller forced induction engines that put out more power than old V-8s? As technology drives efficiency gains, having a clean burning small block that gives comparable performance of a big block is a no brainer, from a manufacturing standpoint. Tooling is hella expensive. And if the demographic that tooling is being ordered for is dying off, it doesn’t make sense to keep investing in it. I guess I’m thinking that time marches onward, whether we want it to or not.
Personally I think their dealership/customer service experience needs to be improved upon first. Otherwise it won’t matter what they do or don’t offer.
my sources say it weighs 450 lbs full of fuel .That would be a Monster of a motorcycle!
Dusty
I prefer the look of the HD:I visited the local H-D dealer to check out the PanAm; I knew more about it than the salesman, and the manager had no idea when they would get one.
(https://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/category-images/2021/hero-cards-3-up/electric-motorcycle-1x1.jpg?impolicy=myresize&rw=650)
"gerber".....you're funny. :grin:
And, yes remember how well JITM has worked out? Ask those companies who had parts held up by the EVER GIVEN fiasco. :wink:
I visited the local H-D dealer to check out the PanAm; I knew more about it than the salesman, and the manager had no idea when they would get one.
They had one of their electrics on the floor so I asked if I could sit on it. I'm long in the waist, about like your typical 6'3" guy. On the bike I was stretched like this young lady - there was no way I would take that bike for a test ride.
Dan
The dealer experience has to change I've never met a sales person who knew even minimal history of the brand or any past models plus they never even stock basic maintenance itemsAnd worse than that, there are states now with no or maybe one minimal one like in my state, does not help the cause.
Has the dealer situation ever been good from a national stand point?
In the 40 plus years of ownership, nothing much changes.Yep, I think your take is right and the loyal owners club, as you are, is what has proped the brand up over the years. The folks on this forum makes this evident.
Everybody say it is going broke, but it just soldiers on.
Yes, I guess we are really splitting hairs here.
Rider posted these numbers,
"Strapped onto the Borla Performance Dynojet dynamometer, the Breva spun up 71.7 rear-wheel horsepower at 7,400 rpm and 56.3 lb-ft of torque peaked at 5,500 revs."
Yep, I think your take is right and the loyal owners club, as you are, is what has proped the brand up over the years. The folks on this forum makes this evident.
This being the way it is, my original question is still Revelant. The company now has two motor platforms, small and smaller, is that substantial for any motorcycle company? I know it would put any of the other brands down in short order, I know HD and Honda would fall.
I was talking to one of my forum Pals last night and after our conversation ended a question became apparent to me, what is the future of the moto Guzzi brand of motorcycle.
They no longer produce the newest line, 1400s, which was their future for touring and cruiser bikes at the time of introduction. They no longer offer the ole work horse 1100 series, which was used in most all of the versions of riding needs and desires of Guzzi riders, so what’s left?
Personally for the kind of bikes I prefer being cruiser/ tourers, the future looks kind of bleak:(.
What say my fellow Guzzi enthusiast?
Since its introduction in 2009, the clear road ahead for Guzzi has been the V7 Classics and other small block offerings.
"And that's the way it is, cause Stone Cold says so"
Piaggio electric bikes with Guzzi badges will follow the small blocks.
A modern day Galletto, the Gallectto.
https://www.rideapart.com/news/433948/moto-guzzi-galletto-hybrid-concept-design/
Vespa already has two electric scooters. The Elettrica.
Since its introduction in 2009, the clear road ahead for Guzzi has been the V7 Classics and other small block offerings.If your assessment comes to be, I simply can’t see a very large percentage of this forums generation supporting future bike sales for the MG brand. I realize I’m just an individual and possibly not the majority, however I’d be surprised to find out I’m the Minority in the subject. Unless, like Dusty and I agreed to that an 850 touring bike in either sport touring and/or cruiser style both dressed like a true touring bike should be in the future plans. And that’s not like my 1400 came as a so called Touring bike, which it was far from such.
1100 Tonti ended a decade ago with the Calvin 90th Anniversary bike.
Tha CARC era ended with the Grist 8V SE.
The big block era ended with the Cal14.
Nothing followed those cancelations, except more new versions of small block bikes.
The future is chiseled in stone.
Piaggio electric bikes with Guzzi badges will follow the small blocks.
"And that's the way it is, cause Stone Cold says so"
I suppose I'm a old dinosaur, but I think MG hit their high mark with the Calvin 90th Anniversary bike. My Cali's were my favorite MGs and that one really struck me as "right" in so many ways. Still wish I could've afforded one back in the day. The EV with tubeless rims was pretty damned awesome as well.And that’s exactly where I’m at also, SC👍
I suppose I'm a old dinosaur, but I think MG hit their high mark with the Calvin 90th Anniversary bike. My Cali's were my favorite MGs and that one really struck me as "right" in so many ways. Still wish I could've afforded one back in the day. The EV with tubeless rims was pretty damned awesome as well.
Yes, bleak.
I was at a local event for the 100th Anniversary a couple of weekends ago (thanks Mario, good fun).
There were 100-ish bikes there. One V85 and a V7, I think. And a single. Every other bike was a big block. And very few riders looked under 50, if any.
You know what they say about languages when there are no longer any native speakers under about 5 years old? Yeah...we're some way past that stage...
Different times - different cultures. This thread is quickly starting to look like old curmudgeons vs new owners.
Yes, bleak.
I was at a local event for the 100th Anniversary a couple of weekends ago (thanks Mario, good fun).
There were 100-ish bikes there. One V85 and a V7, I think. And a single. Every other bike was a big block. And very few riders looked under 50, if any.
You know what they say about languages when there are no longer any native speakers under about 5 years old? Yeah...we're some way past that stage...
Thanks for the observation Dimitri. This board is majority populated by North Americans, and as such they sometimes forget that the rest of the world isn’t exactly the same.Good point and something we should consider with others responses if they seem a little strange as it may be just to us in the US👍
Thanks for the observation Dimitri. This board is majority populated by North Americans, and as such they sometimes forget that the rest of the world isn’t exactly the same.
I just sincerely hope they bring back the California line or develop some other cruiser. Taking it back to 1100 would be fine with me. I'm a little guy, so that's plenty of power, imo. If they don't, I may just stick with the two I have and keep them well maintained, but never buy another Guzzi.I think there are more folks think this way than the brain trust of Piaggio may realize.
Maybe younger riders don't want to hang out with a bunch of old guys anyway.
Maybe the younger riders are riding V85s and V7s and not going to stupid "anniversary" celebrations they don't care about (yet).
Maybe those same younger riders will become older riders and go to the 125th or 150th anniversary celebrations because they will be old and boring then too?!?
Only partially tongue-in-cheek.
Well, someone is buying all those V7s and V85s. Where are they congregating, if at all?
I saw a lot of younger riders at a recent Ducati event.
Look, it's diagnostic. We don't have to like it, but it is.
I don't actually care one way or the other, though I kinda identify more with the group that doesn't really dig these events.Don’t you think maybe Ducati draws more of the younger crowd that MG does? Every time I go to the Dragons Tail I see several younger guys dressed in leathers, and I don’t mean the Brando style leather, on the Ducati but I’ve never seen anyone but older guys, like me, on a Moto Guzzi. In fact I’ve never seen a young person on a Guzzi of any style. Why might that be?
There were more at the Ducati event, great, so analyze the difference.
* What's different about the event - JUST BRAND or are there other differences?
* What's the difference between brands - not just product, but sales figures, especially in area of event.
* Any other factors we are forgetting?!?
I guess I'm saying it's way too easy to have observational bias in something like this and that we've got an N = 1 in this observation.
That's all.
Don’t you think maybe Ducati draws more of the younger crowd that MG does? Every time I go to the Dragons Tail I see several younger guys dressed in leathers, and I don’t mean the Brando style leather, on the Ducati but I’ve never seen anyone but older guys, like me, on a Moto Guzzi. In fact I’ve never seen a young person on a Guzzi of any style. Why might that be?
Don’t you think maybe Ducati draws more of the younger crowd that MG does? Every time I go to the Dragons Tail I see several younger guys dressed in leathers, and I don’t mean the Brando style leather, on the Ducati but I’ve never seen anyone but older guys, like me, on a Moto Guzzi. In fact I’ve never seen a young person on a Guzzi of any style. Why might that be?
Join the various MG Facebook pages out there. Lots of folks who don’t fit in the older, white, American (or Aussie) dude demographic are buying Guzzis...
...and asking wonderfully cute questions like:
“Look at my bike, I just mod’ed it with a Givi rack”... and...
“Check out my bike, it’s now a scrambler because I put the MG-approved Arrow exhaust on”... and possibly the cutest of them all...
“Should I keep the Racer’s seat cowl on? TELL ME WHAT TO DO!”
Adorable.
“Should I keep the Racer’s seat cowl on? TELL ME WHAT TO DO!”
Adorable.
:laugh: :grin: :laugh:
Re the bit about the various factors at play: yes. That's exactly my point.
Ducati is a small make but has a decent range of attractive options for various kinds of riding. Guzzi has the smallblock in standard and adventure flavours. It isn't giving people anything to aspire to after that.
Other brands are bringing young riders in with machines that are attractive to them (Guzzi isn't failing at this) *and converting them into enthusiasts* (Guzzi *is* failing at this, or that's what it looks like to me, in my part of the world; YMMV). Maybe September will change that!
Yes, Ducati is small. Yamaha makes hundreds of thousands of bikes a year in India alone. Guzzi is tiny,
Join the various MG Facebook pages out there. Lots of folks who don’t fit the ‘older, white, American (or Aussie) dude’ demographic are buying Guzzis...
...and asking wonderfully cute questions like:
“Look at my bike, I just mod’ed it with a Givi rack”... and...
“Check out my bike, it’s now a scrambler because I put the MG-approved Arrow exhaust on”... and possibly the cutest of them all...
“Should I keep the Racer’s seat cowl on? TELL ME WHAT TO DO!”
Adorable.
I think there are more folks think this way than the brain trust of Piaggio may realize.
Guzzi has always been a basically one-engine size company with maybe two slightly different body styles. They have never competed in multiple sizes like the major brands.
In the 1970's it was the 750 that got enlarged to the 850 but just Ambassador, Eldorado, then the T. They grew to the almost 1000 CC's with again maybe two styles. Now we're back down to the small block 750/850 with, that's right two basic styles.
Here’s something strange to me at this point. Some of you guys say you’re seeing lots of younger guys on the MG, v7 etc. I guess the part of the country and countries you are in determine that as well as dealership availability. As most of you know I live in central NC and in the years Ive been a Guzzi fan and owner I’ve only seen a couple MG bikes in the wild. However I have seen several Ducati bikes ridden by older and younger riders. I think the reason for this is due to little to no exposure to the brand. The first MG I ever saw was an El Dorado, probably an early 80s. It had fishtails and sounded great. The rider was a younger guy who said it was his dads bike. I feel in love with it then and it took 20 years later to get my first on, an 04 California EV, black and chrome. Now here’s my point. The magic that I felt over that first encounter, I don’t believe will exist with this new market of the brand. And yes our opinions on this is simply that “opinions” and this is mine.
Our perspective in North America is unique from the rest of the planet. I think the small block was originally imported in 1984, just one year, it didn't sell well, and wasn't seen again over here for two decades.
I read in one of the Guzzi history books, that it was the small block, such as the Nevada, that kept Guzzi from "actually" going out of business. They sold many many more SB across Europe and else where than they did BB.
Absolutely regional differences, especially in the lack of a dealership are going to make huge differences, especially in the amount of younger riders who will be less likely to try a brand if there isn't local exposure and support.
A newer rider is much less likely to travel hundreds of miles for a bike. Absolutely.
Even I was shocked one time last year when heading for my in-laws when I noticed a V9 pull through the intersection.
Then I realized we were about 5 miles south of a newer (past 5 years) Guzzi dealer.
Marketing and dealer 'presence' in the community is a big piece of the puzzle as well. My local 'Powersports' dealer that carries Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Honda, Ducati, Can Am, Polaris, Slingshot with all the water and ATV things is all over the place for advertising, community events, print and radio.I agree that MG needs to “up their ad game” however when they only offer now very limited options they still only have a small segment of the MC population, therefore even if they had a store on every corner the brand would still be a stale company. The main reason HD has such a large segment of the riding population it due not only to its dealership locations and support but also they offer a bike that the majority of riders would and DO buy.
My first move to the DC area was 2005, and my local Guzzi dealer is 1 mile from my In laws, 8 miles to my house, and 2 miles from where I worked (Fort Myer). I drove/rode past the dealership for 2 years.....
I was here 05-07, then back in 2010-2015, and NEVER knew there was a Moto Guzzi/Aprilia dealer. I knew of the shop, but thought all they had were Scooters, because that's all they put out front. I bought my first Guzzi from MI in Seattle, which I actually knew about even though I had never lived on the West Coast. When I moved back to DC in 2018, I did a search for local MG dealers and was shocked to find one .
It is in a terrible location, but they are invisible to the local MC community, so unless you are 'looking' for a Moto Guzzi or Aprilia, you'd never know they were there. MG needs to up their AD game.
I think the prognostications on Guzzi's demise are well overstated. This is a niche company that makes niche products. They have never been a sales behemoth or had much of a footprint outside esoteric circles of enthusiasts (beside their short stint supplying bikes to CA highway patrol). Judging from their dealer network and support, it doesnt even seem like they want to move beyond that (in the US at least).
There are plenty of companies who make their hay selling quirky/retro/niche products to those who want them, and dont really offer anything outside that to attract other buyers/demographics.
For example, I have this espresso machine.. This company is now owned by Iily, but for a long time they were indy and made only retro espresso machines. They eventually got bought out by a big company and became just one part of their product mix (kinda like MG and piaggio)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1y0AAOSwAqhgRoTX/s-l640.jpg)
Is it the best espresso machine on the market? Hell no. Does it have the strongest pump, the best boiler, does it pull the most consistent shots? No. But it's passable/competitive if operated correctly, it is very basic to use, it has no worthless bells & whistles, no 'convenience features' no timers, no automatic frothing settings. Just an on/off switch and a brew switch and a toggle hi/low/ temp control. Plus is looks funky and retro and its unique.
I think Guzzi fills a similar niche, they sell a few thousand bikes a year, and at least pre-- they were making the parent company money, and were trending in an ok direction. Not every motorcycle company can be Honda. That's just peachy for me.
As for the big blocks going away, I dont really care. The current gen has very similar engine layout, the 850 in the V85 is almost a strong as my 1100 Breva, and the bike weighs 100# less.
If people wanted more CARC bikes and 1400 cruisers, they probably would have sold instead of languishing on dealer floors. Moto Guzzi has a strong seller in the v7 that pays homage to the company history, and the v85 and v9 are good variants off that. I dont know what ya'll expect. They arent going to continue making bikes that dont sell.
New Moto GuzzE.
(https://ibb.co/xHLxLwx)
Here’s something strange to me at this point. Some of you guys say you’re seeing lots of younger guys on the MG, v7 etc. I guess the part of the country and countries you are in determine that as well as dealership availability. As most of you know I live in central NC and in the years Ive been a Guzzi fan and owner I’ve only seen a couple MG bikes in the wild. However I have seen several Ducati bikes ridden by older and younger riders. I think the reason for this is due to little to no exposure to the brand. The first MG I ever saw was an El Dorado, probably an early 80s. It had fishtails and sounded great. The rider was a younger guy who said it was his dads bike. I feel in love with it then and it took 20 years later to get my first on, an 04 California EV, black and chrome. Now here’s my point. The magic that I felt over that first encounter, I don’t believe will exist with this new market of the brand. And yes our opinions on this is simply that “opinions” and this is mine.
Almost everytime I stop either of my Guzzi's anywhere in NC: gas station, parkway overlook, restaurant, coffee shop, bike night... someone asks me about it. I will say the v65 (which has a modern V7 tank on it and looks pretty much like a cafe'd V7) gets more looks, nods, questions, and 'my uncle had one of those' than the Breva. So some sort of brand awareness is there. I don't think this extends to the cruiser guzzi bikes, because if you dont know bikes, they just look like a Harley or a Japanese 'Harley knock-off' from 20ft away.
I guess that's because...“Insect with two wheels” 😂😂😂😂 no more calls folks as WE HAVE A WINNER. I knew there had to be a more accurate description for those creatures😂
1) It looks like a motorcycle. In contrast to the Breva, Griso, modern 'insects' with two wheels...
Like in: a stereotypical standard motorcycle that in ages past any average Joe could ride.
I guess your Ambo triggers a similar reaction? And...
2) It does NOT look like a Harley and by extension you are not the stereotypical evil criminal that 'usually rides those'... :)
Cheers,
D.
No one can accurately predict the future...Yep, same.
However, I can GUARANTEE you that I will NOT be owning an "electric Moto Guzzi" in my lifetime... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :shocked: :shocked: :huh: :huh:
Never can be a while JJ. There may come a day we can’t get gasoline 🤔😂👍Then I guess I'll need to learn how to make gasoline.
I think the prognostications on Guzzi's demise are well overstated. This is a niche company that makes niche products. They have never been a sales behemoth or had much of a footprint outside esoteric circles of enthusiasts (beside their short stint supplying bikes to CA highway patrol). Judging from their dealer network and support, it doesnt even seem like they want to move beyond that (in the US at least).
There are plenty of companies who make their hay selling quirky/retro/niche products to those who want them, and dont really offer anything outside that to attract other buyers/demographics.
For example, I have this espresso machine.. This company is now owned by Iily, but for a long time they were indy and made only retro espresso machines. They eventually got bought out by a big company and became just one part of their product mix (kinda like MG and piaggio)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1y0AAOSwAqhgRoTX/s-l640.jpg)
Is it the best espresso machine on the market? Hell no. Does it have the strongest pump, the best boiler, does it pull the most consistent shots? No. But it's passable/competitive if operated correctly, it is very basic to use, it has no worthless bells & whistles, no 'convenience features' no timers, no automatic frothing settings. Just an on/off switch and a brew switch and a toggle hi/low/ temp control. Plus is looks funky and retro and its unique.
I think Guzzi fills a similar niche, they sell a few thousand bikes a year, and at least pre-- they were making the parent company money, and were trending in an ok direction. Not every motorcycle company can be Honda. That's just peachy for me.
As for the big blocks going away, I dont really care. The current gen has very similar engine layout, the 850 in the V85 is almost a strong as my 1100 Breva, and the bike weighs 100# less.
If people wanted more CARC bikes and 1400 cruisers, they probably would have sold instead of languishing on dealer floors. Moto Guzzi has a strong seller in the v7 that pays homage to the company history, and the v85 and v9 are good variants off that. I dont know what ya'll expect. They arent going to continue making bikes that dont sell.
Well looks like the Chicago area lost it's last Guzzi dealer. Future is bleak if they can't keep dealers.Yep JJ that’s the whole point of this topic and I totally agree with you. 👍
Whoops # 2: Last two events I had to take the bike and drop it off, come back and pick it up when ready. So actually 2 more round trips which would be 7 X 4 = 28 hours. Little tired after todays events and didn't proof read before posting. Sorry. But you get my point, a lot of time involved.
Other than a tiny Honda shop, everything is an hour or more away.
Sloans is 3 hour round trip where I bought my Moto Guzzi. Triumph, Ducati, BMW are on the other side of major cities from me so they are out.
Not trying to beat a dead horse but I really want to throw this in.
I just returned from an evening ride to the local seafood dinner and rode my little 02 Stone, what a fine motor this is. Unless our beloved company knows something we similar don’t know, only a group of fools for leadership would discontinue such a wonderful line of machines.
Sorry If a little blunt and no disrespect intended towards anyone’s opinion on this forum but sometimes something needs to be said and this is one of those times🤔😂😉
Don’t you think maybe Ducati draws more of the younger crowd that MG does? Every time I go to the Dragons Tail I see several younger guys dressed in leathers, and I don’t mean the Brando style leather, on the Ducati but I’ve never seen anyone but older guys, like me, on a Moto Guzzi. In fact I’ve never seen a young person on a Guzzi of any style. Why might that be?
I think it's part of the old win on Saturday sell on Monday philosophy; even if Ducati isn't on top of the racing game, they're in it, even if it's only pretend on the street.Same here in my neck of the county. I’m fortunate to have a 40+ year Honda mechanic who worked for a dealership that had MG in the past and he does all my maintenance work and more simply repairs if necessary however no major motor work, which I more than likely won’t ever need.
The local, young Ricky racer crowd (including the girls) are into Ducatis, GSXR's, Ninjas, KTMs, Aprillias, CBRRs, even BMWs that riding demographic would never consider a guzzi.
The local, young retro/hipster/cafe racer riders seem to like the look, vibe and mystique about guzzis, but having one horrible dealer that hates the brand and literally no dealer support kills most of the interest.
In my area, if you're not set up with a garage, tools, and a willingness to learn to do the work yourself, a guzzi is a hard sell,