Pressure test

[Huzo]

I have reason to want to find out if my ‘07 Norge has adequate oil pressure.
The light does not illuminate, except for the start up sequence, but I want a definitive test that I can quantify. Can someone tell me what the nominal value should be and the acceptable range ?
Also.
Where do I plumb the gauge into the system and what is the procedure and the possible pitfalls. I’m not interested in whether it’s a good idea or not, just how I go about it..
I do not want to have the gauge as a full time addition, just long enough to get good results and to see if the pressure jumps up to the acceptable figure and stays there...(more or less).
Then piss it off.

[Fontain25]

I know this isn't what your looking for but I take the valve covers off then remove the sparkplugs and hit the starter button and see if the rockers are oozing oil.

[Huzo]

I know this isn't what your looking for but I take the valve covers off then remove the sparkplugs and hit the starter button and see if the rockers are oozing oil.

Well it’s a start mate..
Thank you.

[RinkRat II]

  The simplest would be to remove the oil pressure sending switch, install an appropriate adapter or fitting and install a hose with gauge like this....



     I would think at startup you should see 40 to 60psi. Less at idle after it warms up.  My $.02

     Paul B

[oldbike54]

 One question , what are you gonna do if it turns out the Norge is only making 10 LBS of oil pressure , or 100 LBS ?

 Dusty

[Rough Edge racing]

One question , what are you gonna do if it turns out the Norge is only making 10 LBS of oil pressure , or 100 LBS ?

 Dusty

  Start an oil thread?         Who will be the first to suggest 10 psi per 1000 rpm...

[Chuck in Indiana]

  Start an oil thread?         Who will be the first to suggest 10 psi per 1000 rpm...

It looks like you were.. 

[John A]

So your trying to find out if it's an indication problem or an actual pressure problem.  You got to trust your machine to go the places that you do.  What's young Pete say?  Maybe you can drag him into this..

[oldbike54]

 Wasn't trying to sound snarky , I'm simply always curious about why we are asking a question .

 Dusty

[kirby1923]

A good way to add some anxiety to your riding day is to put an oil pressure gauge on your Guzzi.

Don't ask me how I know this....
:-)

[Old Jock]

As RinkRat suggests easiest is to use the switch take off on the crankcase

I'd also measure temp too, I use one them dipsticks everybody laughs at, but the temp affects viscosity and that can make a dramatic difference to the pressure

I know because I'm hunting down a presure problem on a HiCam

On the older bikes you should see about 70-80 psi on cold oil at fast idle, I'd use a 100 psi gauge

Again on the older bikes the thread is 12mmx1.5 as I recall

[Kiwi_Roy]

The oil feed to the rockers is also at the same pressure as the pressure switch if you have a banjo fitting just add an extra banjo with a longer hollow bolt.

All the Guzzis I have measured 60 psi when cold and as low as 10 psi when hot at idle but go back up to nearly 60 with revs.
The Oil pressure is set by a spring loaded relief valve, the pump puts out more volume than the engine requires.

If you mount the gauge on some fixed point like the crash bar or staring damper bracket you can hard pipe it, don't need flexible hose.

[Tom H]

A good way to add some anxiety to your riding day is to put an oil pressure gauge on your Guzzi.

Don't ask me how I know this....
:-)

I'll second that! My EVT on a hot day at idle shows about 5 ish pounds on the gauge. But cold start up is about 60. This is with a cheap electronic sender gauge, might be different with a regular gauge. I went electric because of warnings of the oil line to the gauge breaking and hot oil spaying all over.

Rinkrat's test gauge looks good. What about an automotive gauge that would normally be installed. The kind you find for about $10 at a parts store. Might be the cheaper way to go and just use it for your test and then remove. OR if you decide to keep it on the bike, I'll dig up the info on a really easy to install splitter so that the light works as well as a gauge.

Tom

[Chuck in Indiana]

A good way to add some anxiety to your riding day is to put an oil pressure gauge on your Guzzi.

Don't ask me how I know this....
:-)

One day the Kid, who is a *very* good mechanic, thought it might be a good idea to find out what the oil temp was running in his Sport. He called MG Cycles, about one of the temperature dipsticks and Gordon said, "Sure, I'll sell you one, but you probably won't like what you see. Then, what are you going to do about it?"
 
That Gordon Shirley  puts the hard sell on a guy..
The Kid said, "Ok, I get your point. Never mind.."

[kirby1923]

One day the Kid, who is a *very* good mechanic, thought it might be a good idea to find out what the oil temp was running in his Sport. He called MG Cycles, about one of the temperature dipsticks and Gordon said, "Sure, I'll sell you one, but you probably won't like what you see. Then, what are you going to do about it?"
 
That Gordon Shirley  puts the hard sell on a guy..
The Kid said, "Ok, I get your point. Never mind.."

 
I always warn people when the subject comes up..I think the old saw is "be careful what you ask for"

:-)

[Rough Edge racing]

I'll second that! My EVT on a hot day at idle shows about 5 ish pounds on the gauge. But cold start up is about 60. This is with a cheap electronic sender gauge, might be different with a regular gauge. I went electric because of warnings of the oil line to the gauge breaking and hot oil spaying all over.

Rinkrat's test gauge looks good. What about an automotive gauge that would normally be installed. The kind you find for about $10 at a parts store. Might be the cheaper way to go and just use it for your test and then remove. OR if you decide to keep it on the bike, I'll dig up the info on a really easy to install splitter so that the light works as well as a gauge.

Tom

 Is it 5 psi at 6000 rpm? Or 5 psi at idle?

[Tom H]

At idle. When the same hot at around 2000-3000rpm it's about 40.

Tom

[Frenchfrog]

I'm glad I put one on my tonti...
I'm guessing that you just want to get a reading rather than have a permanent gauge Huzo...so best to just replace the pressure switch while you do the test. For the permanent fixture I got a race tech gauge and sender...plumbed them into the oil feed to the heads.It's quite an easy piece to make ( I have a drawing somewhere if you need ) but Stein Dinse sold one so I got that.Use dowty joints and teflon for the sender which means it needs an earth strap too...or else you'll have oil leaks like I did !!!

[larrys]

  The simplest would be to remove the oil pressure sending switch, install an appropriate adapter or fitting and install a hose with gauge like this....



     I would think at startup you should see 40 to 60psi. Less at idle after it warms up.  My $.02

     Paul B

This, for just a test. I found that a flexible hose for a grease gun, available at the local hardware store for just a few bucks (Guzzi content), a 1/8" NPT union, and a 0-100 PSI pressure gauge does the trick. I made one up to make sure that the marine engines I build have oil pressure before I light them off in the garage.
Larry

[Huzo]

One question , what are you gonna do if it turns out the Norge is only making 10 LBS of oil pressure , or 100 LBS ?

 Dusty

Investigate a new pump.
Being a red ‘07 I wouldn’t be too surprised.

[Frenchfrog]

Yup...and she has done pretty good service hasn't she !

[Huzo]

Yup...and she has done pretty good service hasn't she !

Exactly !
My initial post was to ask how to do this, not so much as to why I want to, but I’ll play.
As mentioned in an earlier post, when I start the bike from cold, it runs perfectly with no more or less rattles than it should have. After running for about a minute the engine gets an enhanced rattle then goes away after another minute or so.
I don’t mind the rattle, but I do not want to ignore the issue if it corresponds to a reduction in oil pressure, not saying it does but I want to know.

[Huzo]

So your trying to find out if it's an indication problem or an actual pressure problem.  You got to trust your machine to go the places that you do.  What's young Pete say?  Maybe you can drag him into this..

He won’t need an invitation and we have spoken about it.

[Huzo]

A good way to add some anxiety to your riding day is to put an oil pressure gauge on your Guzzi.

Don't ask me how I know this....
:-)

Are you the aeroplane bloke ?

[Huzo]

Wasn't trying to sound snarky , I'm simply always curious about why we are asking a question .

 Dusty

Never thought you were Dusty, but I want to see if a symptom corresponds with a suspected cause.

[Huzo]

As RinkRat suggests easiest is to use the switch take off on the crankcase

I'd also measure temp too, I use one them dipsticks everybody laughs at, but the temp affects viscosity and that can make a dramatic difference to the pressure

I know because I'm hunting down a presure problem on a HiCam

On the older bikes you should see about 70-80 psi on cold oil at fast idle, I'd use a 100 psi gauge

Again on the older bikes the thread is 12mmx1.5 as I recall

Thanks John, the voice of reason.

[John A]

He won’t need an invitation and we have spoken about it.

I'm not familiar with Norge engines, no experience so I'm learning now.
Its been my experience as well running a pressure gauge that I would worry about it and that would distract me from the task at hand ie: trying not to wad it up

[Frenchfrog]

My logic in fitting one was twofold :
The early Tonti tank has a space where the Ignition key switch lives and that ends up by scratching the tank even if you use a fob.....so I relocated the switch a long time ago and was left with the space for a gauge....and if the pressure is getting dangerously low I'd like to see by how much and not just rely on the red light which I still have . It doesn't freak me out and at least I ca see what the pressure gauge reads and act accordingly.
At revs mine reads 4 bar which is exactly where the pressure relief valve cuts in so I'd guess the Norge will read at 5  as I think the valve cuts out higher on those.The parts book would confirm that.

[Huzo]

I'm not familiar with Norge engines, no experience so I'm learning now.
Its been my experience as well running a pressure gauge that I would worry about it and that would distract me from the task at hand ie: trying not to wad it up

I don’t care what the readings are, the bike has proven itself over 12 years and 178,000 k.
But if the rattle corresponds with a pressure fluctuation, I’m gunna’ throw a new pump at it. I will not ignore it.
I’m looking at this so as NOT to worry, the old pilot in me tells me not to ignore the possibility of a reduction in oil pressure. The temp is of no concern, I am reliably informed that Norges and the like are overcooled if anything and it’s always been fine, the variables that affect temp have not changed.

[Huzo]

My logic in fitting one was twofold :
The early Tonti tank has a space where the Ignition key switch lives and that ends up by scratching the tank even if you use a fob.....so I relocated the switch a long time ago and was left with the space for a gauge....and if the pressure is getting dangerously low I'd like to see by how much and not just rely on the red light which I still have . It doesn't freak me out and at least I ca see what the pressure gauge reads and act accordingly.
At revs mine reads 4 bar which is exactly where the pressure relief valve cuts in so I'd guess the Norge will read at 5  as I think the valve cuts out higher on those.The parts book would confirm that.

I saw that, ‘thought it looked neat and original.