Author Topic: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)  (Read 13666 times)

Online John A

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2016, 11:56:52 AM »
or just yard it out, insert and all. then put in a new insert, being aware if you do that and the hole is too buggered find a junkyard head. im in a similar situation with my Moms car, keeping it going as long as she can drive.
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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2016, 12:12:23 PM »
Oh. That makes it tougher. I'd probably just bite the bullet, pull the head, and machine it out. Fix the insert if it needs it, and try to ignore whatever else I found. :smiley: You *will* find trouble on an old machine, of course.  :grin:

At this point, it isn't worth the effort to pull the head (again - engine blew a head gasket at ~ 96k miles). Timing chain noise, oil leaks everywhere, high miles...

If I could get a few of my siblings to contribute, I'd either put a good used engine (if there is such a thing with this crap engine) or rebuilt long-block in it. I'd rather just buy here another small pick-up though.
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Offline rboe

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2016, 02:01:16 PM »
You know, with the use of all these volatile liquids, application of heat, close proximity of corrosive battery acid.....accidents happen.  :rolleyes:


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« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 02:02:13 PM by rboe »
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Offline not-fishing

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2016, 03:34:45 PM »
If you're trying various witches brews over a course of time, the old homemade standby of 1/2 acetone- 1/2 ATF has always worked best for me.   
Lannis

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Quote
However, there was an article comparing various penetrates in the April 2007 issue of Machinist Morkshop Magazine. They arranged a subjective test of all of the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a scientifically rusted environment.
Penetrant:

Average Load:
none 516 ft lbs
WD40 238 lbs
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Liquid Wrench 127 lbs
Kano Kroil 106 lbs

ATF-Acetone mix 53 lbs

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2016, 03:34:45 PM »

Offline keuka4884

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2016, 04:00:47 PM »
I have a can of PB Blaster and Kroil. I think Kroil does a slightly better job, but both are good.
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2016, 05:07:08 PM »
Despite many tries, I have never had PB Blaster work to un-seize anything.  I bought a can of Knock-er Loose at the recommendation of someone here, and I have had it do the job.  Acetone and ATF has worked for me too.  Since it separates, I keep it in a small glass bottle, and shake it up well before each use.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 05:07:47 PM by Triple Jim »
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2016, 06:40:58 PM »
Put the other plugs back in and run the engine to get it up to temp, then carefully try the difficult plug again. Aluminium expands more than steel and helps in these situations.
Of course if its carbon build up on the threads on the nose of the plug then you are in problem city.
Were the other plugs carboned up on the end threads? were they the correct length plugs?
Patience and penetrating oil may be the answer if my suggestion doesnt work.
Ciao
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 06:43:52 PM by lucky phil »
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Offline rboe

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2016, 06:45:27 PM »
Would anti-seize compound work in this application to prevent further seizes in the future? Just thinking out loud here, I have some somewhere but can't recall using it much.
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Offline Moto Fugazzi

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2016, 06:48:04 PM »
First of all, I'd punch your brother if I was you for not using anti-seize on the spark plugs.

I just had a similar problem with my V11S. I couldn't get the caliper carrying bolt (mounted in the swing arm) out. PB Blaster soaking for a day didn't help. On a whim, I tried CRC Freeze Off. I doused the hell out of it, let it soak for a few minutes, and it finally broke loose. I don't know if this really worked, or if all of the combined efforts worked. With a thread repair already, none of this may help...
Ken
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 01:51:38 PM by Moto Fugazzi »
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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2016, 08:25:35 PM »
First of all, I'd punch your brother if I was you for not using anti-seize on the spark plugs.

I just had a similar problem with my V11S. I couldn't get the caliper carrying bolt (mounted in the swing arm) out. PB Blaster soaking for a day didn't help. On a whim, I tried CRC Freeze Off. I doused the hell out of it, let it soak for a few minutes, and it finally broke loose. I don't know if this really worked, or if all of the combined efforts worked. With a thread repair already, none of this may help...

I'm planning to buy a can of Freeze Off first chance I get and give that a try. Can't hurt.
Charlie

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2016, 08:35:15 PM »
If faced with this I would just search out and buy a used head, get a valve jop and install.
end of problem.

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2016, 09:24:25 PM »
I've had good luck using Kroil to loosen rusted bolts. It penetrates very well.

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Offline pete mcgee

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2016, 10:23:41 PM »
Charlie,
Did your brother mention which type of thread repair system he used?
Recoil/helicoil all use a steel wound wire that fits into an enlarged and threaded hole, the inside diameter will be the size and pitch of the intended fasteners thread.
Done correctly they usually stay where needed and don't bind or gall.
Ham fistedness can cross thread them.
Keen inserts can have the inside hole red filled and a helicoil fitted if the thread is trashed.
I would use the acetone/atf mix with a rattle gun on a low setting, going out and back in, rince and repeat until it comes out.
If its a helicoil pull it out, recut the thread, you will need the tap that comes with the kit, put in a new helicoil, anti seize the new plug and fit.
All of the above rolls off the tongue easily but doesn't allow for the frustration factor and wtf do I do now if logic doesn't work.
Good luck with it.
Pete (no not the Bungendore one)


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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2016, 10:58:11 PM »
If faced with this I would just search out and buy a used head, get a valve jop and install.
end of problem.

End of that problem, maybe. But as I said above, there's still the loose timing chain, oil leaks galore, questionable bottom end condition and high miles.

Made a trip to the local "transfer station" today with recycling, used oil and one bag of trash. Ran much better today after my "Italian tune-up" yesterday, barely missed at all.

Charlie,
Did your brother mention which type of thread repair system he used?
Recoil/helicoil all use a steel wound wire that fits into an enlarged and threaded hole, the inside diameter will be the size and pitch of the intended fasteners thread.
Done correctly they usually stay where needed and don't bind or gall.
Ham fistedness can cross thread them.
Keen inserts can have the inside hole red filled and a helicoil fitted if the thread is trashed.
I would use the acetone/atf mix with a rattle gun on a low setting, going out and back in, rince and repeat until it comes out.
If its a helicoil pull it out, recut the thread, you will need the tap that comes with the kit, put in a new helicoil, anti seize the new plug and fit.
All of the above rolls off the tongue easily but doesn't allow for the frustration factor and wtf do I do now if logic doesn't work.
Good luck with it.

No, he didn't mention what type of insert. I'll eventually try Freeze Out along with your suggestion of rattle gun on low. But for now, I'm going to let her run it as-is. She only makes one short trip a week, it's not like she depends on it to get to work or anything. Worst case: I'll simply take her where she needs to go, I do that sometimes already.
Charlie

Offline organfixsing

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2016, 05:54:46 AM »
Lots of people have said to heat ther head. This will, however, shrink the sparkplug hole and will not work while the head is hot. The only thing heating will do is perhaps break the galling on the threads when the head is cold. Cooling the head would work, however, the head is such a large chunk of aluminium you would never be able to do it when mounted on the motor. If it were possible to remove the head, a couple of days in the freezer would help to do the job.
To explain why the sparkplug holes would shrink, heat a washer with more metal than the hole in the middle and you will find that the hole in the washer will reduce in diameter. This is also why when pressing in new valve guides into a cylinder head, you freeze the valve guide, not heat the head.
My 2 cents worth

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2016, 06:03:40 AM »
Despite many tries, I have never had PB Blaster work to un-seize anything.  I bought a can of Knock-er Loose at the recommendation of someone here, and I have had it do the job.  Acetone and ATF has worked for me too.  Since it separates, I keep it in a small glass bottle, and shake it up well before each use.

 I live in NY and own older vehicles... Rust....I've used Kroil, PB Blaster, and witches brews on rusted/stuck fasteners and Kroil is the best because of the sweet smell when I finally get the torch and heat the bolt... :grin:
   I've also noticed that when using penetrating oil and the bolt or nut finally comes loose (without using heat), the threads are often dry. So the penetrating oil didn't penetrate... The various oils will work ok on very lightly rusted or tarnished bolts...

Offline lucky phil

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2016, 07:09:28 AM »
Lots of people have said to heat ther head. This will, however, shrink the sparkplug hole and will not work while the head is hot. The only thing heating will do is perhaps break the galling on the threads when the head is cold. Cooling the head would work, however, the head is such a large chunk of aluminium you would never be able to do it when mounted on the motor. If it were possible to remove the head, a couple of days in the freezer would help to do the job.
To explain why the sparkplug holes would shrink, heat a washer with more metal than the hole in the middle and you will find that the hole in the washer will reduce in diameter. This is also why when pressing in new valve guides into a cylinder head, you freeze the valve guide, not heat the head.
My 2 cents worth

Cheers
Brian :bow:
So heating a piece of metal with a hole in it makes the hole smaller!!!! I'm speechless.
Ciao
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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2016, 09:41:02 AM »
So heating a piece of metal with a hole in it makes the hole smaller!!!! I'm speechless.
Ciao

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Offline CalVin2007

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2016, 10:16:43 AM »
 :grin: :grin:
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Offline MGPilot

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2016, 10:41:55 AM »
I had a similar situation.

Took the long course of action and decided that I'd get it to release its grip over the course of a week or so.

Would work the plug a little while the engine was cold. Let it run just a little....work it again.  Run more...work it again. Work it again after coming back from drives.

By the end of several days, multiple heat cycles and just gently working it....it let go.

Some small amounts of aluminum came with it in the threads, but not enough to require a helicoil.

YMMV.
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Offline Moto Fugazzi

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2016, 12:57:53 PM »
I'm planning to buy a can of Freeze Off first chance I get and give that a try. Can't hurt.

This is the bolt after I loosened it with Freeze Off and an impact screwdriver. The threads were actually wet when I removed it...never had that happen before. Also the Freeze Off is kind of deceiving as the bolt was not freezing in any way, but it was cold. I used about 1/2 the large can on the bolt.
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Offline 80CX100

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2016, 06:08:08 PM »
Patience and time should loosen it,,, I would loosen it as much as you can without snapping it,,, maybe a little heat to help the jungle juice acetone/atf work it's way in,,, a week works wonders IF you can wait and reapply it,,,great,,, when you're ready to go at it,,  spray the freeze off onto the plug,,, rattle gun would be nice,,, but I guarantee a 3-4 ft johnson bar will get movement,,, without carnage? 50-50 chance imho lol,,,

good luck with it
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Offline Muzz

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2016, 07:09:04 PM »
I wonder if the movement you are getting is the plug moving in the helicoil or the helicoil moving in the head.

Don't know whether either option would affect your line of attack. Either way, I don't envy you. Any thing I would try has already been suggested.
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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2016, 05:49:47 PM »
CRC Freeze-Off is the winner! Sprayed it on the stuck plug for a solid minute, let it soak for another 2, right away the plug felt much more easy to move and moved farther before seizing again. Squirt, soak, turn, repeat and it finally came out! Insert stayed put, but might have boogered threads. Need to find my tap and chase the threads. Getting there...
Charlie

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2016, 05:54:27 PM »
 


                                                     Congratulations  :thumb:

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Online Tom H

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2016, 05:57:09 PM »
Congrats!! :thumb:

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2016, 06:31:25 PM »
Went ahead and replaced all four plugs while I was at it. Runs (almost) good again.

Now the exhaust is falling off. It's getting to be sort of like "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titantic".  :angry:
Charlie

Offline pete mcgee

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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2016, 05:14:30 AM »
Just remember the deck chairs floated the boat didn't.
1 step at a time.
Glad you had a win.
Time for a beer, congrats. :boozing:
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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2016, 07:00:11 AM »
Thanks for the follow-up. It's always nice to learn what works for certain tasks.
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Re: Removing stuck sparkplug from aluminum head (NGC)
« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2016, 10:31:09 AM »
CRC Freeze-Off is the winner! Sprayed it on the stuck plug for a solid minute, let it soak for another 2, right away the plug felt much more easy to move and moved farther before seizing again. Squirt, soak, turn, repeat and it finally came out! Insert stayed put, but might have boogered threads. Need to find my tap and chase the threads. Getting there...

Nice! I'm amazed on how well the freeze off worked.

Make sure you use plenty of loctite high heat thread locker on the new plugs.    :evil:
Ken
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