2012 Griso---did I get stuck with a loser?

[Dilliw]

Oh it's the size of the casting hole that is easiest to see.  Here's a flatie photo that Pete posted for comparison and note the difference where the tool is pointed vs. your photo.

[MGrego]

Well, I pulled the valve cover and took pics, even though I'm not entirely sure what flat versus roller looks like, from this angle. The pics look like they could be rollers, but again, I've not found any detailed diagrams of the comparison to make that judgement. Fingers crossed; can it be discerned from this pic whether it's a flattie or a roller?


russian image host

Well aren't you lucky !!  Finding rollers has got to be a big relief  -- Congrats on the new bike !

[guzzisteve]

Well, I pulled the valve cover and took pics, even though I'm not entirely sure what flat versus roller looks like, from this angle. The pics look like they could be rollers, but again, I've not found any detailed diagrams of the comparison to make that judgement. Fingers crossed; can it be discerned from this pic whether it's a flattie or a roller?


russian image host

Well, looks like you're fine to me. YOU HIT the JACKPOT

[swooshdave]

Who did the work if the dealer said they didn't?

[ediehl]

Yay! Hoorah! Apparently it was either stock, or the upgrade was performed at the 5700 mile servicing or before, and so hopefully there was no disgorging of DLF (or whatever it's called) into the crankcase.

I'll change the oil and set the valve clearances. Is the lubing of the swingarm bearings and rear shock linkages done via zirq (sp?) fittings, or does it require disassembly?

The Griso has a Power Commander and an underslung exhaust (forget the brand, will have to go look), sorta like a Buell exhaust but much nicer looking (and quite louder, even with the baffle in). The Power Commander has an AutoTune unit, if I'm remembering that term correctly, that was taken off (and given to me at purchase), because the aftemarket exhaust has no O2 (or whatever) sensor to plug in to. I also have a supposed factory upgrade Termignoni (sp?) exhaust, that does have an O2 sensor, and so I may reinstall that and the AutoTune unit. The Griso runs strong when I'm on the throttle, but stumbles a bit at constant throttle and on/off throttle transitions. Maybe the Autotune unit will fix that? I also have a Carbmate synchronizing device that I'll use to hopefully sync the throttle bodies.

Yay!

[Muzz]

As my mate would say, "flukes count!" 

[pete roper]

Take the Power Corruptor off and chuck it. Useless obsolescent technology that is completely redundant on a W5AM equipped Guzzi. Also it will tend to cause gross over fueling because people blindly follow 'One size fits all' instructions for their use and don't take into account the oddball nature and behaviour of the Guzzi 8V.

If it were mine I'd be removing any oddball exhaust and reinstalling the 'Pretzel', (It's there for a reason! ) and then either using the Termi or one of the other commoner pipes that are well researched and decent maps are readily available for.

Pete

[Lannis]

Is the lubing of the swingarm bearings and rear shock linkages done via zirq (sp?) fittings, or does it require disassembly?

Gotta take it apart.   I just did mine (and documented the hard parts) here last month.  I followed the excellent pictorial guide from leafman60 from the archives of December 2013; just follow that step by step and it's not hard at all, no fancy heating or driving or reaming or anything.   

While you're there, you'll grease (1) the two tapered swingarm roller bearings (2) the drive shaft splines  (3) the three shock mounting needle bearings and peace of mind will return ....

Lannis

[Zoom Zoom]

Glad to see your bike has in fact been updated. You might consider having a Guzzi dealer verify that and get it entered into the system as having been repaired. Sounds like someone didn't do that.

Would have saved you a lot of drama!

John Henry

[Jukebox]

Great ending.
Griso's are awesome.
Mine 2006.

[ediehl]

With regard to the Power Commander; never used one---is it a big deal to remove, or just unplug it from the system? I do know that my unfettered 2-valve 1200 Guzzis were much better mannered than my 4V Griso is now (though I did use a Staintune pipe on the2-valvers---glorious sound), and so I'm inclined to take the chuck-the-Power-Commander advice.

Concerning the exhaust, I have two choices (without buying something else). The Systemi di Scarico underslung canister that's on it now, or the Termignoni that I was told was a factory upgrade. I don't have the oddball exhaust that's stock on the Griso.

[Dilliw]

With regard to the Power Commander; never used one---is it a big deal to remove, or just unplug it from the system? I do know that my unfettered 2-valve 1200 Guzzis were much better mannered than my 4V Griso is now (though I did use a Staintune pipe on the2-valvers---glorious sound), and so I'm inclined to take the chuck-the-Power-Commander advice.

Concerning the exhaust, I have two choices (without buying something else). The Systemi di Scarico underslung canister that's on it now, or the Termignoni that I was told was a factory upgrade. I don't have the oddball exhaust that's stock on the Griso.

My vote would be Termi,  DB killer in, and Mark's map.  It can't run much better than that

[beetle]

The 2 valve engines are very different beasts than the 4 valve units. What works for one won't for the other. The 8V fuel maps were designed to meet Euro 3. Consequently, the self proclaimed fuel injection guru's said 'engine runs lean! Throw bulk fuel at it'. Enter the Power Commander. Epic fail.

Now, the PC can be made to work. You have to have a clue about the 8V, however. Not many do. It's still a black box add on though. As Pete says, there are better options. Familiarise yourself with GuzziDiag. We might even be able to get your current exhaust working.

[pete roper]

Can we get a picture of this exhaust? If you can't post one up just send it to me and I'll do it for you.

motomoda.roper<at>gmail.com

Pete

[Dilliw]

Can we get a picture of this exhaust? If you can't post one up just send it to me and I'll do it for you.

motomoda.roper<at>gmail.com

Pete

I believe it's the Quad D

[pete roper]

I didn't think QuatD made one of their odd under slung boxes for the Griso?

[ediehl]

Here are pics of the exhaust.
Pete referred to the 'pretzel'; is that the O2 sensor?
With regard to installing a map, I can't do that without the Power Commander, correct?
I went out and looked at the Termignoni pipe; I don't think there's a baffle in it (I had assumed that it did not have a removable baffle). No surprise; the guy I bought it from likes LOUD.




I'll go Google GuzziDiag to see what that's all about.

[ediehl]

BTW, the left side plate is off the motor because as I was riding and went to shift, I found no shifter. I stopped and looked, and the stud that the shift lever pivots on had broken off. I took it to a machine shop to see if they could extract the flush broken-off stud from the side plate. If not, I get to buy a new side plate :-(

[Dilliw]

Here are pics of the exhaust.
Pete referred to the 'pretzel'; is that the O2 sensor?
With regard to installing a map, I can't do that without the Power Commander, correct?
I went out and looked at the Termignoni pipe; I don't think there's a baffle in it (I had assumed that it did not have a removable baffle). No surprise; the guy I bought it from likes LOUD.

I'll go Google GuzziDiag to see what that's all about.

Your "pretzel is  missing.  The stock exhaust includes a 2 into 1 collector that goes underneath the bike but comes back to a LH exhaust.

Here's a pick of the Termi and what it will look like.  You are going to need the DB Killer and the stock pretzel to make it run right.

When you search the Guzzidag threads you will see that you need some software and a couple of cables.  After that it's so easy that I was able to do it!

[smdl]

As you'll find out when you research Guzzidiag, this is a free suite of software solutions that allow you to connect directly to the ECU for diagnostic purposes, and for remapping as desired.  This means that there is no need anymore to use third-party boxes (PCV and Autotune) to adjust fueling -- you have control of fueling (and more!) with much more sophistication that you will ever find in the Power Commander unit.  Don't worry if you don't want to build a new map yourself -- others have already done the heavy lifting, and you can load an existing map in a matter of minutes.  I am currently running one of Mark's (Beetle) maps in my Stelvio, and the improvement over stock is truly stunning.  Highly recommended!

As for removing the Power Commander (PC), it's fairly simple to do, and I took mine off in about 45 minutes.  Just follow the wires to see where they go and carefully remove things.  The PC is simply inserted inline in the path to the injectors, and uses OEM-type injector connectors.  Just remove the PC wiring and re-attach the stock injector connectors to the injectors.  That completely removes the PC from the loop.

Looking at the exhaust and the PC work, it seems that whoever was doing the work didn't really understand the 8V very well, and simply went with what conventional wisdom (?) said you should do to make a bike go faster or run better.  However, in-depth testing has shown that this just doesn't work very well on the 8V engine (and probably many others!), and a more conservative approach is called for.  What the Griso seems to really like is the standard air cleaner, standard exhaust header with the loop (pretzel) under the engine, and a well-developed tune by someone who knows what they are doing.  There are a number of aftermarket exhaust cans that work very well as long as the DB-killer is left in.

Mark (Beetle) is the master of all that is Griso tuning, and he has made an offer to help to try to get one of the exhausts you have working.  If I were you, I would jump on that most generous offer very quickly, and find out how amazing your new ride really can be.  Mark sells his maps for a very reasonable rate of AUD $100, which is an incredible bargain when you consider that it gets rid of all the extra crap on your bike, and makes it run very, very well.

So, my suggestion would be to download Guzzidiag, get the needed cables from Lonelec (best source to be sure you get great quality cables), and coordinate with Mark to get the best map for your bike and exhaust.  I'd also recommend that, if you are happy, you make a donation to Beard, the developer of Guzzidiag.  Read the Guzzidiag Tutorial thread for all the gory details.

Congrats on the roller discovery!  Enjoy your Griso -- I'm jealous!!

Cheers,
Shaun

[smdl]

Oh, and if you find that you really don't have the pretzel that is so important, don't despair!  Not sure what a dealer would charge for one, but if you don't mind a small dent on the heat shield, here is one on eBay for $50:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-2013-Griso-Exhaust-Midpipe-Header-Pipe-Muffler-/132227303747?hash=item1ec95c8943:g:9JIAAOSwjvJZQbnu&vxp=mtr

The heat shield should be available from the dealer, independently, too...

Cheers,
Shaun

[ediehl]

Here's the Termignoni, and it appears to me that the pretzel is included? I'll do some studying at GuzziDiag (didn't even know it existed), and probably revert to the Termignoni, with the proper already-developed mapping. I'll think about it. I actually like the look of the underslung exhaust, but I better like something that's functioning properly (and is not pretty loud even with the baffle in). Might have to shop around to find a baffle for the Termignoni.



Thanks for all the advice; this is a great forum!

[smdl]

Here's the Termignoni, and it appears to me that the pretzel is included? I'll do some studying at GuzziDiag (didn't even know it existed), and probably revert to the Termignoni, with the proper already-developed mapping. I'll think about it. I actually like the look of the underslung exhaust, but I better like something that's functioning properly (and is not pretty loud even with the baffle in). Might have to shop around to find a baffle for the Termignoni.



Thanks for all the advice; this is a great forum!

Yes, that is the pretzel -- looks like you lucked out again!  Mark will be able to confirm, but I'm pretty certain that his recommendation will be to pick up the DB-killer for the Termi exhaust.  Not sure about the other exhaust, but I'm thinking you might see a significant impact to performance with it.

Best of luck!

Shaun

[beetle]

I can only imagine how poorly your Griso must run. And loud. Does the QD muffler have dB killer in? I'd wager that you've got a rock strainer air filter as well. Unfortunately, the PO has done all the dumb things. The underslung pipe may look good, but I guarantee it's doing nought for performance. Without riding your bike, I can tell you that you have no bottom or midrange torque to speak of. I imagine it wails like a banshee and goes like a dog shot up the arse from about 6500 RPM. Unfortunately you run out of revs shortly thereafter.

Shaun is right. That is the pretzel attached to the Termi. You should source a dB killer. The Termi has a catcon, and running a pipe with a catcon and no dB killer is just weird. Plus hard to map. Alternatively get a dB killer for the QD if you don't have one, and stick it on the pretzel. Thats a better option than a Termi without a dB killer. You be surprised to find tons of low down grunt. You'll be able to pull down small buildings, as opposed to being barely pull the skin off a custard.

[ediehl]

Actually, the Griso does seem to have good  lowend/midrange torque, but I can't yet compare it to how it would be with a different setup. I'm not a revvy type of rider, and have probably not run up past 5000 RPM yet. The Sistemi di Scarico canister does have a baffle inserted in the end of the canister; I assume that's what is being referred to as a DB Killer? Or is a DB Killer something else? Beetle said something about maybe installing one on the end of the pretzel, and I'm not sure how that would work, with the baffle I have. The Sistemi is kinda loud with the baffle in, but was insane with the baffle out.

[guzzisteve]

They (G12) are more fun between 5 & 8K rpm. I was floggin a friends Stelvio this morning, was pullin like a big 2 stroke, on the limiter in 3 gears, then bye bye gone out a here. Try it, you'll like it.

[beetle]

Actually, the Griso does seem to have good  lowend/midrange torque, but I can't yet compare it to how it would be with a different setup. I'm not a revvy type of rider, and have probably not run up past 5000 RPM yet. The Sistemi di Scarico canister does have a baffle inserted in the end of the canister; I assume that's what is being referred to as a DB Killer? Or is a DB Killer something else? Beetle said something about maybe installing one on the end of the pretzel, and I'm not sure how that would work, with the baffle I have. The Sistemi is kinda loud with the baffle in, but was insane with the baffle out.

You misunderstand me, or I didn't explain properly (more likely).

The Termi will run poorly without a dB killer (baffle). If you cannot find a baffle for the Termi, the better option would be to run the "Sistemi Di Scarico" (which is a Quat D muffler) in the conventional location with the pretzel. Do not stick a baffle in the pretzel, stick the Quat D on the pretzel.

[ediehl]

I downloaded the GuzziDiag software and ordered cables from Lorelen (sp?). It sounds like the general consensus is that I'd be better off withe the Termignoni pipe and proper mapping (and DB Killer), after ditching the PowerCommander? Or possibly the Sistemi/Quad D canister attached to the pretzel (which might look a little wierd, not sure)?

Gotta do some more studying in the GuzziDiag section

[Dilliw]

I downloaded the GuzziDiag software and ordered cables from Lorelen (sp?). It sounds like the general consensus is that I'd be better off withe the Termignoni pipe and proper mapping (and DB Killer), after ditching the PowerCommander? Or possibly the Sistemi/Quad D canister attached to the pretzel (which might look a little wierd, not sure)?

Gotta do some more studying in the GuzziDiag section

You are better off with the pretzel and a silencer with a baffle. 

If the Quad D has a DB killer and it fits on the end of the pretzel then that would be better than the Termi without a silencer.  If it were my bike I'd probably source a Termi silencer and sell off the Quad D to pay for it. 

[LowRyter]

Good on yer for having a reasonable attitude.   I DIDN'T have a reasonable attitude, which often happens, and Guzzi's attitude toward their very clear and universal SNAFU pissed me off bad enough that I didn't care if it was "worth it", if they were going to do me that way, I was dumping the bike in bits to make other Stelvio owners happy with cheap spares .... !

Worked out OK though.

Lannis