Author Topic: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring  (Read 1478 times)

Offline 1down5up

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Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« on: August 30, 2019, 12:58:21 AM »
All.

Looking for recommendations for alternatives to the standard tonti guzzi molex connectors.

I'm just about to embark on a full rewire of a custom tonti with an m-unit and looking  for something not quite as bulky and a bit more secure/reliable/waterproof

Any one have a recommendation for more modern electricial connectors and a good online source (I'm in Australia)

Offline geodoc

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2019, 01:29:20 AM »
My two go-to resources for terminals and connectors:

http://www.cycleterminal.com/

http://www.cycleterminal.com/

I personally like AMP 1.5 Superseal connectors.

As for wire, I like the Mil Spec stuff from these guys. Much thinner insulation than the usual automotive wire for thinner bundles. Also comes in a large number of color combinations.

https://www.prowireusa.com/c-32-m22759-16-tefzel-wire.aspx

Regarding M-Units, I've installed a few now (though not either of the 'blue' series) and would heartily recommend the M-Button too. Gets rid of a fair size group of wires between the handlebar switches and the M-Unit itself. Would also recommend installing an isolate switch between M-Button and M-Unit (at least on V1 + 2), otherwise you can't enter the set-up routine and the instructions make no mention of this. Maybe the "Blue" series sorted this out.

There's some photos & comments installing one on a Ducati 750 GT here:

http://forum.bevelheaven.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4543&start=45



All.

Looking for recommendations for alternatives to the standard tonti guzzi molex connectors.

I'm just about to embark on a full rewire of a custom tonti with an m-unit and looking  for something not quite as bulky and a bit more secure/reliable/waterproof

Any one have a recommendation for more modern electricial connectors and a good online source (I'm in Australia)

Online Old Jock

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2019, 03:52:17 AM »
Posted a pic of the 1000 which was rewired here

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=102503.0

Mine (as usual) had a lot of overkill, that's a series I M-Unit, I know very little about the Blue series and consider them a bit OTT. The fuse box was also put in as I wanted to group a lot of the earths and have a belt and braces method of getting the bike to run if the M-Unit gave up the ghost when on the road. When I wired it there were very few of them being used so I knew nothing about there reliability. I needn't have worried though as it's been a very reliable piece of kit

My recommendations are similar too geodoc, I used AMP superseals for the connectors, now common on a lot of bikes and thinwall wiring, prehaps not as good as the Mil Spec but a vey similar idea.

For spades I'd recommend going with the all metal type and avoid the insuled type if you can as they never seem to get you a really reliable connection.

Only other thing to add is get a decent set of crimping tools, doesn't need to be the ratchet type necessarily but a pair that can really bite down on the connection

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2019, 04:24:55 AM »
The Molex connectors were used so the loom could be assembled in a factory, if you are re-wiring it in your garage just run the wire straight from the source to the destination,
Around the steering head arrange the wires to bend gently over several inches do not wrap them tightly together or bend in one place
Where the power leaves the battery have a main fuse that will blow to protect the wiring in case of an accidental short (something the factory didn't do)

I like to dip the wire ends in Vaseline before terminating so if they get wet they don't corrode.

Where connection to a terminal strip like the M unit tuck the loom in tightly below the terminals, bring the wires out the back looping over the loom cutting them all the same length, this looks really neat and allows flexibility for easy removal, also takes the strain off the terminals.
When we were wiring long terminal strips we would make a guide of stiff wire the length of the strip the wires would bend over the guide to be cut all the same length
Sorry I cannot find a decent picture, mostly just a rats nest.

Consider using white heat shrink with an indelible marker to identify the individual wires, use this with Johns all metal spades to insulate them and re-enforce the weak point where the insulation ends.
Don't use cheap tape, after a few months it turns into a sticky mess, this looks like a good product https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCDNB7bCnn4
Do not solder wires if they flex or they get brittle and snap off.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 04:23:28 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2019, 04:24:55 AM »

Online Old Jock

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2019, 06:24:01 AM »
Always do what Roy tells you it's always GREAT Advice

For mechanical protection of the loom, there are a few ways to go, loom cloth tape looks great but it can be a PIA to wrap the wires and get them neat, a bit like exhaust wrap got to be done carefully and takes a bit of practice

I used mainly shrink sleeve and spiral wrap like this, not so pretty but easy to get on/off and can easily have wires coming in and out of the loom



Expandable braiding is also an option worth considering





Then end in the last pic has been terminated using Hellerman or neoprene sleeve, these are aslo very useful but you need the tool to stretch them to get them onto the wiring

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2019, 10:00:14 AM »

Expandable braiding is also an option worth considering


I was admiring the stainless braiding on a Royal Enfield my friend owns "where did you get that?"
"At Home Depot, in the motorcycle section"
He was buying those braided hoses they use on a washer and slipping the braid off, I thought that was a great idea, often that stuff is plastic, it just looks like metal.
You could use heat shrink to tidy the ends, make it white and you could write on it.

Talking about bare metal spade connectors I bought a box of assorted high temperature ones at an appliance repair place, used to terminate the wires on the elements.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 10:06:29 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline Cdn850T5NT

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2019, 10:42:20 AM »
Excellent info, All!
1985 Eurospec 850 T5 NT (Nuovo Tipo - New Type... i.e. Series III)

Offline Murray

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2019, 10:53:06 AM »
Deutsch  or Wether pack connectors are fairly good although I'd let whatever is readily avalible near you drive the final decision, Deutsch are fairly heavily used in the earthmoving industry while they are not the most expesive connector on the market they are not cheap.

Online Old Jock

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2019, 12:47:36 PM »
Other options (I'm just posting as idea come to me) for multiple wires to a common connection are Wago, mainly used for MCCs and distribution boards but worked well when I was redoing a new instrument panel on the 1100. Reasonably compact, come apart easily and more elegant than a big splice or terminal block



There are also the Posi connectors but altough I've never had one come undone they are a little crude and on the bulky side, but they have their uses for sure

https://www.posi-products.com/

The positaps are miles better than Scotchlocks which I detest. I'd never use any of these solutions as a first choice, preferring to splice the wire instead, but sometimes space restraints or whatever dictate that you want to tap into an exisiting wire without cutting it.

Offline 1down5up

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2019, 04:28:38 PM »
Thanks guys,

That is some seriously nest wiring and wire tie. I'm gusiing you have done thys once or twice before....

Any reason you went for the Ace connectors over the sumitomo? The Sumitomos seem a little more compact as they go square for the higher # connectors

Offline Roebling3

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2019, 10:39:36 AM »
   http://easternbeaver.com  Jim Davis.  080-5120-5127  Quality materials, excellent service. R3~

Offline 1down5up

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2019, 09:45:53 PM »
Thanks they look like a decent supplier as well.

Old Jock - Any reason you went for the Ace connectors over the sumitomo? The Sumitomos seem a little more compact as they go square for the higher # connectors rather than staying straight - also do you need a specific crimper or will one that does the normal spade terminals do the job?

Online Old Jock

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2019, 04:12:58 AM »
Oh Hi

I never realized your original question was aimed at me I thought it was for geodoc, given the comment on the cable ties. Mine doesn't loook as neat as that, I guess geodoc does aircraft wiring given the way it's all tied up super neat............... ......nice job.

No not any reason, apart from complete ignorance, I didn't know there was another option on the connectors, in fact I'm still unsure what connectors you're referring to, the bootlace ferrules possibly?

For the bootlace ferrules I had a specific crimper, again it was not an expensive unit. They don't need a huge amount of force to crimp them.

For a crimper to do the Superseal terminals you can get a type that have both the circular crimp and the folded, something like this, that can then double up for doing the normal spade connectors too.

http://www.chainbin.com/product-CRIMPER-FOR-SUPERSEAL-1-5-TERMINAL---SEAL-041180107.html

Wiring up the 1000 taught me a lot, it was a good exercise and it was my first full rewire, although I've done odds and ends over the years. My main take was draw a wiring diagram and size all the wire first before even thinking about ordering up wire. I've done a few not exactly brilliant diagrams using excel, which is crude and time consuming but it's all I had available. I'd gladly give you a copy but they are not perfect in many ways, you could use them as a starting point I guess, but don't rely on them. Drop me a PM if you want a copy (also remember mine employed a LOT of overkill, I would not do it that way now)

On the cable sizing I used mainly 0.5mm^2 for the controls stuff, 2.0mm^2 for the power, some of the alternator connections etc used 3.0mm^2 all Thinwall. Cannot recommend the thinwall (or the mil stuff recommended by geodoc) highly enough.

Eastern Beaver is a good supplier if I had known about his fuse box I would have used it over the Centech, although both are good sturdy steel units, most plastic fuseboxes I've come across are crap

I also took Roy's advice and installed master fuses on the battery line I think they were 40A in line units, these are great as a line of last resort and I've blown them when being stupid on more than one ocassion

You can also replace the switchgear with buttons, which I liked, below is a pic taken after I fell off the bike when trying to get out of a pot holed alley and failed. The bike fell over and damaged the fairing and fairing stay. Anyway you can see most of the swtichgear are now buttons. The switch on the far left is an M-Switch and controls the Beams and horn, the buttons on the switch next to that control the indicators and the switch above kills the dip beam (my old M-Unit could not switch off the beam, unlike the newer models) Switchgear on the right is the starter and kill switch. The cables run outside the bars which is not so neat but I did not want to put any more holes into the clip ons as they had a few drilled already for locating lugs from P.O.s




Anything else I can help with just post away.

John
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 06:37:58 AM by Old Jock »

Offline geodoc

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2019, 12:34:13 PM »
Oh Hi

I never realized your original question was aimed at me I thought it was for geodoc, given the comment on the cable ties. Mine doesn't loook as neat as that, I guess geodoc does aircraft wiring given the way it's all tied up super neat............... ......nice job.


John

Yup ............... a stint with Boeing in 767 flight test, the Lear Fan flight test, then Rogerson / Hiller flight test. Always preferred lacing cord over tie wraps when possible.

It can get a bit carried away.


Offline kirb

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2019, 12:49:26 PM »
I starting using Deutsch connectors as Caterpillar uses these for most items on a landfill gas engine. Motus also made their harnesses with these that look very much like the above with a nylon cover and heat shrink ends...use the heat shrink with the goo inside to better seal the ends.

http://www.deutschconnector.com/products/deutsch_connectors/deutsch_dt_series_connectors/

The Deutsch are easy to use... Crimp male on one end, female on the other, click into holder (2,3,4, etc pin), place wedge, done. Waterproof when done correctly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE712DGw8CY

They are not exactly tiny in size, but very stout in design. Grey is the common color, but buy black if possible.

Online Old Jock

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2019, 01:43:05 PM »
I'm outta here I'm being outclassed and feel inadequate by all these professionals  :cry:

I love this forum there is nowhere else where there are so many from different backgrounds willing to give of their hard won time and advice which would be super costly to get from a pro and probably not half as good

Offline 1down5up

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2019, 03:21:58 AM »
Thanks all, will give the Amp and Sumitomo a go I think,

Moto

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Re: Alternate electrical connectors - custom wiring
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2019, 11:53:04 AM »
Here's an excellent site (it appears) for our connector and wiring needs that hasn't been mentioned, as far as I can recall or find out by searching Wildguzzi:

corsa-technic.com

On it you'll find a whole lot of Sumitomo connectors (including the "Hitachi" type that are OEM on my Griso), as well as a number of other brands. Also military-spec items including sleeving.

They have wiring in solid colors only, it seems. (Britishwiring.com is better for wires, having many stripe combinations.)

The prices and shipping seem reasonable, and it is possible to select very small quantities (e.g. 1 foot of sleeving). However, there could be a minimum purchase requirement. Has anyone dealt with this company? IS there a minimum purchase?

I've found that careful installation produces excellent results with modest expenditures. Tips like Kiwi Roy's advice to use vaseline are priceless. I can, however, see the esthetic pleasure to be derived from an installation using modules costing hundreds of dollars, so I won't criticize that.

Moto
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 12:41:38 PM by Moto »

 

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