Author Topic: Norge side stand problem!  (Read 18537 times)

Offline samfrank

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Norge side stand problem!
« on: June 24, 2008, 10:38:49 AM »
Boy am I po'ed! Just got back from an eight day trip to Virginia where we did day rides every day. Great roads but too much gravel on the back roads. Anyway, I removed the center stand while I was there to prevent any scraping. Four days into the trip I notice the bike leaning more and more to the left with the side stand down. Upon further inspection I notice the whole side stand complex swinging loose...real loose. One of the connecting bolts was GONE and the other one was half way out. The one that was half way out couldn't come out any farther because the pipe was preventing it. I couldn't get to that bolt to tighten it because of the pipe and I was not prepared to remove the pipe. The Norge has about 2200 miles on it. What really infuriates me is on my trip last year to New Hampshire the exact same thing happened on my '06 Breva with about 9k miles!! Johnny Monace repaired that problem but it took him several hous. Where is the quality control? I would think these bikes come to the dealer with the side stand already attached but I could be wrong. Believe me I'm going to write a letter to MG-USA to see what they say. My friends, who were with me last year, said if this happened to you twice it's happening to others as well. Has any one else had this problem? I'm taking the Norge to Jason Speakers where, I bought the bike, this Friday. Comments? Suggestions?
1973 Eldorado
2013 Norge - moving to Arizona to live with John.
2015 Yamaha FJR1300

toddhaven

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 11:19:08 AM »
Mike Bui had one come loose.
Davy now pulls the left pipe and loctites both bolts as part of PDI.
Easier than greasing rear wheel splines on Californias, which is part of our PDI as well.

Offline samfrank

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 11:19:47 AM »
I'm  pretty sure there  are two bolts that hold the side stand on. Otherwise, the whole assembly would have come off.
1973 Eldorado
2013 Norge - moving to Arizona to live with John.
2015 Yamaha FJR1300

toddhaven

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 11:27:40 AM »
#20, x2

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 11:27:40 AM »

toddhaven

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 11:55:06 AM »
bolt is 12x35

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 12:17:16 PM »
Boy am I po'ed! Just got back from an eight day trip to Virginia where we did day rides every day. Great roads but too much gravel on the back roads. Anyway, I removed the center stand while I was there to prevent any scraping. Four days into the trip I notice the bike leaning more and more to the left with the side stand down. Upon further inspection I notice the whole side stand complex swinging loose...real loose. One of the connecting bolts was GONE and the other one was half way out. The one that was half way out couldn't come out any farther because the pipe was preventing it. I couldn't get to that bolt to tighten it because of the pipe and I was not prepared to remove the pipe. The Norge has about 2200 miles on it. What really infuriates me is on my trip last year to New Hampshire the exact same thing happened on my '06 Breva with about 9k miles!! Johnny Monace repaired that problem but it took him several hous. Where is the quality control? I would think these bikes come to the dealer with the side stand already attached but I could be wrong. Believe me I'm going to write a letter to MG-USA to see what they say. My friends, who were with me last year, said if this happened to you twice it's happening to others as well. Has any one else had this problem? I'm taking the Norge to Jason Speakers where, I bought the bike, this Friday. Comments? Suggestions?

The sidestand and centerstand coming loose is a known issue. Loc tite is your friend.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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Offline Jim Rich

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 12:21:04 PM »
There were several WG posts of this happening last year.  On a trip last year one of the guys had the bolts securing the sidestand on his Breva come loose.  We tie-wrapped the sidestand in place and he used the center stand the duration of the trip.  May be a good argument to leave the centerstand on as backup.   Loctite is needed on these bikes and a lot of others to keep certain things in place.  Get the side stand and center stand bolts secured this way and problem solved.  And maybe stow a spare bolt in your tool bag on the bike, along with duct tape, light bulbs, ...

Jelly Ree

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 01:37:15 PM »
The sidestand and centerstand coming loose is a known issue. Loc tite is your friend.

Which made pretty uncomfortable reading last fall until I found out that, as Todd said, MPH had my back and was ahead of the problem.

danr

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 01:52:57 PM »
Yep, Common problem had it happen on the Norge mid way through a 1200 mile trip last fall. Reading WG I was aware that it was a problem so the first time the  side stand felt a little different when deploying I started using the center stand and didn't use the side stand. Fixed it when I got home. Dropped the header and added a nord lock washer and blue loctite to the bolt.

Online blackcat

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 01:55:01 PM »
Mike Bui had one come loose.
Davy now pulls the left pipe and loctites both bolts as part of PDI.
Easier than greasing rear wheel splines on Californias, which is part of our PDI as well.

I guess that is why this has not been a problem on my Norge. Thanks.
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
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philp

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 02:29:33 PM »
Mike Bui had one come loose.
Davy now pulls the left pipe and loctites both bolts as part of PDI.
Easier than greasing rear wheel splines on Californias, which is part of our PDI as well.

I guess that is why this has not been a problem on my Norge. Thanks.

Same here!  ;D

joevacc

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2008, 02:31:48 PM »
The same thing happened to me as well.  I had about 4000 miles on mine.  It was a good time to find out that there is no 8mm allen in the stock tool kit!  Good thing my Harley friend had a set of SAE wenches on board and had a 5/16 ball end with him!!!

I have just ordered the Agostini pipes for my B1100 so loctiteing it up is high on my to-do list.  This is not too cool.... I hope you do write to MG and if you want a signature to add to your letter let me know!

Bill Hagan

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2008, 04:21:01 PM »
Mike Bui had one come loose.
Davy now pulls the left pipe and loctites both bolts as part of PDI.
Easier than greasing rear wheel splines on Californias, which is part of our PDI as well.

I suggested that to the new dealer here recently, Todd.  He seemed receptive, but we shall see. 

Of course, tho they move 5 to 10 scooters out the door a day (the sales folks were giving pitches to groups!   :o) they haven't sold any MG's yet.  They have 2 reds and a black on the floor, plus a 1200S, a Griso, a B750, and a Nevada.  Nada moved yet, tho my Norge is getting "Axoned" today along with a new tire.

My sidestand loosened again recently--even after loctite--so I moved up to "red."  I figure the Norge's weight to say nothing of ... erm ... mine ... tests the metallurgical and torque limits of the fastener, so I'm not as bothered by it as I might be.   ::)

I also knew before it did the "lean" thing, but I noticed when I checked the "witness paint" I put on it for that purpose.  Can't remember who told me to do that, but it has saved my ssa quite literally a few times.

Bill


Online blackcat

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2008, 04:39:04 PM »
I figure the Norge's weight to say nothing of ... erm ... mine ...

Bill



Billl,

While this site does not mention weight loss it is part of the program.  ;)

http://yogaforbikers.co.uk/

t
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
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http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
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1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

danr

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Morizzi

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2008, 01:48:34 AM »

I have just ordered the Agostini pipes for my B1100 so loctiteing it up is high on my to-do list.  This is not too cool.... I hope you do write to MG and if you want a signature to add to your letter let me know!

Loctite has a thread retaining fluid that will wick down the threads so there is no need to undo the bolt. I can't remember the number but it is very thin. You only need to get it to the thread join.

jeff

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2008, 09:28:01 PM »
DanR, thanks for the link on Nord washers. Never heard of them before. Now I know. Thanks again.

Carl Allison

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2008, 04:48:57 PM »
I just went out and checked my sidestand. It seemed a little loose. It wasn't. There's just a whole lot of flex on the mount because it only has two bolts to secure it. This seems to be more than just a little under-designed if you want my opinion.



It would make sense to have a piece of metal welded on that extends forward from the front lower edge of the sidestand bracket (#11) to pick up the mounting bolt used for the left-hand lower fairing (not shown here - 'nother page in the parts manual). That would give it another mount point but more importantly, it would resist the outward torquing on the bracket where it is currently only secured towards the top. Probably most any engineer that designs something that needs to operate in this mode - such as the mass of a full sized motorcycle splaying out the stand and mount, would opt to go for a three-point mount.

Geordie

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2008, 05:59:30 PM »
The parts book has this as:

Hex socket screw M12x35
Part 98231235
x 2


Offline sbaker

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2008, 10:17:16 PM »

I have just ordered the Agostini pipes for my B1100 so loctiteing it up is high on my to-do list.  This is not too cool.... I hope you do write to MG and if you want a signature to add to your letter let me know!

Loctite has a thread retaining fluid that will wick down the threads so there is no need to undo the bolt. I can't remember the number but it is very thin. You only need to get it to the thread join.

Hello .. It is the green version....
Sam
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Offline Don M

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2008, 06:22:36 PM »
I just got my replacement allen bolt and bushing/sleeve for the right side of the center stand.  I screwed in the alllen bolt by itself (without the centerstand) and it feels very sloppy.  The fit is not very precise so I can see why they loosen.  Each time you put it up on the center stand, it works to unscrew the bolt.  I will use Loctite but check it regularly.  Maybe a lockwasher too.  But with the bushing/sleeve, that may not work.  I may need to put another lock washer on the inside of the bushing/sleeve.
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toddhaven

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2008, 07:45:38 PM »
Kev,
Got your e-mail.
Buried today,
bolt is 12 x 35 x 1.5

Jason Speaker

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2008, 11:19:08 AM »
This problem has already been remedied on the manufacturing line by adding two washers,
part No. 30217900, between the “side stand plate” and the above mentioned screws, and by
monitoring the tightening torque, which shall be of 80 Nm.
Here is the table with the frame number of the first vehicles where the problem has been
solved.

Model FRAME NUMBER
Breva V850 ZGULPB0076M111485
Breva V1100 ZGULP00046M114431
Norge 1200 ZGULPH0116M111722

You are thus kindly invited, upon pre-delivery or during routine maintenance operations, to
check for the presence of the two washers - part No. 30217900, and the correct tightening
torque ( 80 Nm) of the a.m. screws.

Sam's Norge vin is         M113296     
1,574 bikes after the first one that was fixed on the line so I never thought anything about it being a problem. 

Carl Allison

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2008, 05:40:32 PM »
This problem has already been remedied on the manufacturing line by adding two washers,
part No. 30217900, between the “side stand plate” and the above mentioned screws, and by
monitoring the tightening torque, which shall be of 80 Nm.
Here is the table with the frame number of the first vehicles where the problem has been
solved.

Model FRAME NUMBER
Breva V850 ZGULPB0076M111485
Breva V1100 ZGULP00046M114431
Norge 1200 ZGULPH0116M111722

You are thus kindly invited, upon pre-delivery or during routine maintenance operations, to
check for the presence of the two washers - part No. 30217900, and the correct tightening
torque ( 80 Nm) of the a.m. screws.

Sam's Norge vin is         M113296     
1,574 bikes after the first one that was fixed on the line so I never thought anything about it being a problem. 

M112205. Okay, beat that one. Didn't get past having the wrong bearings in the Carc though.

danr

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2008, 05:34:24 AM »
Kev,
Got your e-mail.
Buried today,
bolt is 12 x 35 x 1.5

No rush, I have a temporary fix.

Get back to me in a couple of days or a week when you're unburied and I'll order it, plus I dunno, something else I need - maybe a spare set of front brake pads for the Breva or something else.

Anyway, temporary fix was a 12 x 35 x (I could swear it was a 1.75 thread pitch not 1.5, but I could be wrong) bolt from Lowes.

The bolt threaded up fine, HOWEVER, because the inner-diameter of that hole in the bracket is so small (this is the bolt that sits in that recessed bore/tube) there was no way to drive the bolt using a socket or other tool.

So I grabbed the whizzer and cut a nice deep slot in the top for a large flat-head screwdriver, loctited it, and threaded it into place, VIOLA.

Could be a permanent fix, but JUST IN CASE it loosens up in the future or more importantly, I want to replace it before it corrodes in place and won't let me loosen it in the future, I think I'll order that spare and swap them out. Hell, I can just keep this one on board in case some other poor shmo looses a bolt at a rallye or on the road.

Kev


Kev

I have lost the same bolt you did, Do you have one on order if so from where ? I will add to the order so as to try and make it worth while for the shop.

Thanks

Dan

danr

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2008, 06:14:36 AM »
Kev,
Got your e-mail.
Buried today,
bolt is 12 x 35 x 1.5

No rush, I have a temporary fix.

Get back to me in a couple of days or a week when you're unburied and I'll order it, plus I dunno, something else I need - maybe a spare set of front brake pads for the Breva or something else.

Anyway, temporary fix was a 12 x 35 x (I could swear it was a 1.75 thread pitch not 1.5, but I could be wrong) bolt from Lowes.

The bolt threaded up fine, HOWEVER, because the inner-diameter of that hole in the bracket is so small (this is the bolt that sits in that recessed bore/tube) there was no way to drive the bolt using a socket or other tool.

So I grabbed the whizzer and cut a nice deep slot in the top for a large flat-head screwdriver, loctited it, and threaded it into place, VIOLA.

Could be a permanent fix, but JUST IN CASE it loosens up in the future or more importantly, I want to replace it before it corrodes in place and won't let me loosen it in the future, I think I'll order that spare and swap them out. Hell, I can just keep this one on board in case some other poor shmo looses a bolt at a rallye or on the road.

Kev

For the life of me I cant find a 12x35x1.5 bolt even on a goggle search, but I can find a 12x35x1.75 as you had thought you put in. Todd, can you verify that 1.5 pitch again? Thanks

toddhaven

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2008, 08:04:28 AM »
I stand corrected. Get the 1.75 thread it in by hand, go ride.

danr

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2008, 08:19:42 AM »
I stand corrected. Get the 1.75 thread it in by hand, go ride.

Thanks  Todd


Found a source and have a pack ordered, will have extra,s

Ill keep 2 extra's and the rest can be had for the mere pittance of request and no postage.

Assuming I receive the bolts and there are usable.


http://www.pointe-products.com/Items.asp?query=yes&Search=33-13193&x=34&y=15


danr

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Re: Norge side stand problem! Update!
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2008, 06:05:38 AM »
I stand corrected. Get the 1.75 thread it in by hand, go ride.

Thanks  Todd


Found a source and have a pack ordered, will have extra,s

Ill keep 2 extra's and the rest can be had for the mere pittance of request and no postage.

Assuming I receive the bolts and there are usable.


http://www.pointe-products.com/Items.asp?query=yes&Search=33-13193&x=34&y=15



I received the bolts in the mail and they look like I could have ordered them from Guzzi, Exact same bolt including the finish color. They appear to be of the same grade.

My above offer stands.

Offline Eric

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Re: Norge side stand problem!
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2009, 09:11:53 PM »
I just got back from a two week trip and I wanted to check in on this topic. During my trip I think I lost the side stand bold that is recessed in to the large hole. I was able to secure the upper bolt with a ball headed hex wrench I could slide in over the header. I wonder if anyone has managed to replaced the lower without removing the header and the related plastic. It doesn't look possible, but I thought I'd check to see if anyone had any tricks up their sleeve. Thanks.
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