Traction Control: Which Models Have It?

[JeffOlson]

Greetings from a future MG owner!

Which models have traction control? In particular, does the Norge have traction control? (A local dealer told me that they do, or at least that a particular leftover 2013 model has it.) I imagine many people don't care about traction control, but where I live it rains a lot (enough to soak through my supposedly waterproof rain gear). In my mind, traction control would be nice to have (along with ABS).

I thought only the new V7 II models (which are not here yet in the US), the Stelvio 1200 NTX, and the California Custom and Touring have it...

[beetle]

Yep, late model Norges do.

[father guzzi obrian]

My 72 Eldo had manual traction control, Sport Demon tires and low horsepower along with antilock brakes.... er, made for traction control...

[pauldaytona]

Yep, late model Norges do.

I suppose all 8V norges or no 8V Norges, since they are all the same.
But I can't find it in the current documentation.  Also downloaded the 2013 user manual, nothing in it.

Anyway from what I understood, the Stelvio has pretty simple traction control.
Also all Stelvio with the big tank have it.

[ItsForrest]

No TC on the Norges unless it's a secret feature.
Beetle may be thinking of the Stelvio? Or just mixing up acronyms?
ABS yes, TC no.

[youcanrunnaked]

AFAIK: the Stelvio has a rudimentary TC system; the California 1400 has a slightly more advanced TC system; and the Norge has no TC at all.

[JeffOlson]

^ Ah! Perhaps someone was pulling my leg in an effort to get me off the fence: "Yes, this Norge has it..."

I suppose TC and ABS are not really necessary. One can always use the throttle and brakes carefully. Still, they would add a measure of security in the slop in which I ride.

[oldbike54]

Unfortunately , many salesmen don't know the difference between ABS , TC , or FLHSTC  ;D Or yeah , he may have just been , umm , fibbing .

  Dusty

[dilligaf]

I don't think I know what "traction control" is.   ???   :BEER:
Matt

[pauldaytona]

The Norge 8v map has a traction control part in it. But can be deactivated. And if you would use the stelvio 8v map that has it, there is no means to know if it is on, because the dash doesn't show it.

[beetle]

The Norge 8v map has a traction control part in it. But can be deactivated. And if you would use the stelvio 8v map that has it, there is no means to know if it is on, because the dash doesn't show it.

That's why I thought it had it. I've only looked at the maps.

Sorry, JeffOlsen. My boo-boo.

[Perazzimx14]

My 72 Eldo had manual traction control, Sport Demon tires and low horsepower along with antilock brakes.... er, made for traction control...

Your Eldo like mine also has fly by wire. The throttle cables are made with wire.

I'd rather people learn to ride properly than to rely on technology to save their a$$.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Unfortunately , many salesmen don't know the difference between ABS , TC , or FLHSTC  ;D Or yeah , he may have just been , umm , fibbing .

  Dusty

There's an old saying, "Salesmen have a license to lie." Just the same, it p!sses me off.. OR, being generous, he's just a dumbas... oh never mind.  ;D

[JeffOlson]

It is interesting that a MAP for the ECU could control traction. I would have thought it would need to be a bit more sophisticated than that and at least be able to compare the rotation of the two wheels and adjust the speed of the rear wheel to match the speed of the front wheel.

[ItsForrest]

Well the bike does have ABS and therefor does have the sensors on the wheels for wheel speed.

Now all this has me wondering. I'll have to go try to spin the rear wheel just to be sure now.

I kinda figured Beetle knew these things from a tech aspect better than I do so it had to be a brain fart on his part to say it has TC. Interesting that it is in the ECU map but seems possible the hardware doesn't support it. What else is that ECU used on?

[pauldaytona]

well both wheels are measured for abs, but I'm not so shure that that signal is fed in the ecu for that purpose. There is a signal from the abs unit to the ecu, but I think it is speed only. The newer ecu like in cali 1400 might be more smart.

Marketing:

 The ECU also includes the ATC system to prevent sliding: this system controls ignition advance and injection to cut torque delivery whenever a sudden loss of grip is detected so as to help the rider to remain in control under extreme, unexpected conditions. The system can be deactivated, just like ABS.

[beetle]

Hey, I'm only human. :D

[Kev m]

It is interesting that a MAP for the ECU could control traction. I would have thought it would need to be a bit more sophisticated than that and at least be able to compare the rotation of the two wheels and adjust the speed of the rear wheel to match the speed of the front wheel.

The ecu often is part of the TCS system on modern vehicles, especially since part of the TCS system response to loss of traction might be to reduce engine output, by reducing fueling or timing, or on throttle by wire vehicles by literally reducing throttle opening.

[Vasco DG]

The California 1400's use the 7SM ECU which is considerably more sophisticated than the W5AM. On the Calis and the other 'Prillas that have TC it is triggered/controlled by discrepancies between the rotational speeds of the two wheels. This is why you need to re-calibrate the system after a tyre change.

The V7-II also has TC but I don't know how that works or if it is programmed into a version of the MUI3G controller or has its own separate 'Brain'.

The Stelvio's system is really pretty crude, essentially it's just a spark retardation mode I believe. Norges don't, as far as I know, have TC yet.

Pete

[oldbike54]

Hey, I'm only human. :D

All of my heroes are falling  :( ;D
 
 Dusty

[blackcat]

Unfortunately , many salesmen don't know the difference between ABS , TC , or FLHSTC  ;D Or yeah , he may have just been , umm , fibbing .

  Dusty

The local Guzzi dealer that went out of business had a salesman who pointed at the oil cooler on a Norge and told the potential customer that it was water cooled. I had to correct him. He eventually went back to another dealer.

[Gliderjohn]

I have had my Norge 8V for over three years now but I don't think it a traction control. However last Saturday it got into the 60s and on a curve I cleaned the outer edge of the sole of my boot with pavement. ;D
GliderJiohn

[oldbike54]

The local Guzzi dealer that went out of business had a salesman who pointed at the oil cooler on a Norge and told the potential customer that it was water cooled. I had to correct him. He eventually went back to another dealer.

 :D :( :D :( :D :( :D :(

  Dusty

[youcanrunnaked]

The California 1400's use the 7SM ECU which is considerably more sophisticated than the W5AM. On the Calis and the other 'Prillas that have TC it is triggered/controlled by discrepancies between the rotational speeds of the two wheels. This is why you need to re-calibrate the system after a tyre change.

The V7-II also has TC but I don't know how that works or if it is programmed into a version of the MUI3G controller or has its own separate 'Brain'.

The Stelvio's system is really pretty crude, essentially it's just a spark retardation mode I believe. Norges don't, as far as I know, have TC yet.

Pete

Did not know that about the V7-II.  A 40 hp bike with TC?  Is there a punchline to that joke?

[rocker59]

Did not know that about the V7-II.  A 40 hp bike with TC?  Is there a punchline to that joke?

yeah...

Here ya go...  There are a few in here:

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=72375.0

[Vasco DG]

Did not know that about the V7-II.  A 40 hp bike with TC?  Is there a punchline to that joke?

If you ride on slippery surfaces and all it takes is a few lines of code? Why not? The 'Semi-RBW' system used on the single TB smallblocks makes TC easy so why not incorporate it? System detects discrepancy in speed between wheels. ECU shuts throttle valve. When equilibrium is restored throttle valve opens again. And how long does this take? Microseconds. And what does it cost? Nothing!

Luddites! Jeez!

Pete

[Kev m]

If you ride on slippery surfaces and all it takes is a few lines of code? Why not? The 'Semi-RBW' system used on the single TB smallblocks makes TC easy so why not incorporate it? System detects discrepancy in speed between wheels. ECU shuts throttle valve. When equilibrium is restored throttle valve opens again. And how long does this take? Microseconds. And what does it cost? Nothing!

Luddites! Jeez!

Pete

WAIT - OH SHYTE - are we back to thinking it's a RBW SYSTEM AGAIN???

I thought we determined the throttle was directly controlled by the cables now?

 ???

As for TC - I agree. Hit a slick spot, ride in the rain etc. you never know if you might need it and if you're going to engineer/build for ABS anyway, it costs nothing.

I know, I should just go take mine apart, but I've not had the need.... can you see the throttle plate with the air cleaner element removed? Maybe I can just pull the element and take a peak, open the hand throttle with the key off and see if anything moves. That would tell us right?

[youcanrunnaked]

Luddites! Jeez!

Relax, Pete.  It was a joke. 

That the Norge does not have TC (or multi-mode throttle control, or electronic suspension, or cruise control), however, is not a joke; that model is falling behind the competition.

[Gliderjohn]

Quote from youcanrunnaked:

That the Norge does not have TC (or multi-mode throttle control, or electronic suspension, or cruise control), however, is not a joke; that model is falling behind the competition.

I tend to agree, at least from 2014 on, even if the rest of the bike was left alone. On the other hand the new Kaw Coni 14 does not have much of that stuff either. It and the Norge are priced at the lower end when it comes to sport tourers so it is kind of nice to have a choice.
GliderJohn

[mtiberio]

If you ride on slippery surfaces and all it takes is a few lines of code? Why not? The 'Semi-RBW' system used on the single TB smallblocks makes TC easy so why not incorporate it? System detects discrepancy in speed between wheels. ECU shuts throttle valve. When equilibrium is restored throttle valve opens again. And how long does this take? Microseconds. And what does it cost? Nothing!

Luddites! Jeez!

Pete

+1