Author Topic: V7 Oil Cooler?  (Read 552 times)

Offline Flaconetti

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V7 Oil Cooler?
« on: May 18, 2022, 01:31:01 PM »
Was anyone able to fit an oil cooler to the V7 I/II?
I know there is the sump spacer option but are there any solutions for adding a small radiator?

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2022, 01:51:57 PM »
I don't know which line you would tap into, the two lines going to the heads have a restricted flow.
Someone will get back with the answer soon I'm sure.
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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2022, 02:39:05 PM »
Was anyone able to fit an oil cooler to the V7 I/II?
I know there is the sump spacer option but are there any solutions for adding a small radiator?
why do you think you need that?
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Online Perazzimx14

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2022, 03:05:32 PM »
Without a thermostat the oil cooler world probably overcooling the oil more often than not. Unless you live in the tropics or only ride when its 95 degrees or higher. 
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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2022, 03:05:32 PM »

Online Frenchfrog

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2022, 03:27:53 PM »
Not a very simple task on a small bloc.The simplest method I have seen takes a feed off the bottom of the oil filter but hardly anyone has done it simply because ther is little need : even the early paris dakar  bikes didn't need one and they were in the Sahara getting as much stick as possible.

Offline Flaconetti

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2022, 11:40:47 AM »
I agree it shouldn't be needed - was just curious whether there is a quick option to add one

Recently got one of those oil dipstick temp gauges and most times they indicate ~110 *C oil temp which I thought a bit excessive. I then checked the calibration of the gauge and was indicating about 5-6 degrees higher so that's still 105 degrees oil temp and it's not even summer. 

Offline Kev m

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2022, 11:56:27 AM »
I agree it shouldn't be needed - was just curious whether there is a quick option to add one

Recently got one of those oil dipstick temp gauges and most times they indicate ~110 *C oil temp which I thought a bit excessive. I then checked the calibration of the gauge and was indicating about 5-6 degrees higher so that's still 105 degrees oil temp and it's not even summer.

And what temperature do you think it SHOULD be?

Remember the lower the temperature the longer it takes to evaporate accumulated moisture (the presence of which can form acids in the oil).

I've seen emulsified oil accumulate in the valve covers of big block Guzzis that are ridden in winter conditions.

I've never heard-of/seen a Guzzi damaged by oil failure just for running in heat.

I once got stuck in an hour or two of summer shore traffic (stop and go) in 90F+ (32C+) temps on a Guzzi Jackal.... no problems then or years after.
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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2022, 06:42:56 PM »
I once owned an Evo Sportster. I had issues with milky oil in the cooler months. I would bet that it ran hotter than the typical Guzzi due to one cylinder being behind the other. I believe the dry sump and the remote oil bag, reservoir, were the main culprits. I wouldn't worry in the least about your Guzzi running too hot. 1400's have an oil cooler but they are twice the size and need them. They get a bit warm in stop and go but nothing like an air-cooled Harley.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2022, 07:50:53 PM »
I once owned an Evo Sportster. I had issues with milky oil in the cooler months. I would bet that it ran hotter than the typical Guzzi due to one cylinder being behind the other. I believe the dry sump and the remote oil bag, reservoir, were the main culprits. I wouldn't worry in the least about your Guzzi running too hot. 1400's have an oil cooler but they are twice the size and need them. They get a bit warm in stop and go but nothing like an air-cooled Harley.
kk


Largely a myth that I've talked about here many times.

Carbureted Harleys often ran as cool or cooler at the rear cylinder. Reasons included:

* Shared manifold often messed with idle air/fuel quality and that dampened temps anyway.
* Air isn't so linear and flows around and swirls and finds the back cylinder just fine underway
* The front cylinder air is somewhat fouled and preheated by the exhaust header, where the rear cylinder header is behind the cylinder.

EFI bikes can indeed read a bit hotter at lower speeds since the air/fuel ratios are now much more precise.

But truthfully the differences are often insignificant in Harleys with either fuel system.

I've personally tracked cylinder head temps on a number of EVO Harleys and big block Guzzis back-to-back during identical riding conditions over the years and the results were mixed and likely had more to do with tune than anything else. Sometimes the Harleys were cooler, sometimes not.

My carbureted 883 ran very cool thanks to increased cooling capacity that was part of the design to prepare for the EFI that was to debut shortly thereafter.

My open-loop EFI Jackal also ran very cool and similar.

My closed-loop EFI Breva 1100 and EFI 1200 sporty both ran much hotter.

But most importantly all ran within their design parameters and were fine even in traffic, in hot summer months.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 07:59:14 PM by Kev m »
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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2022, 08:49:26 PM »
If I still had it I would let you ride my 110" Harley in stop and traffic on a 90+ degree day. The heat will get so bad you will have to shut it down when stopped. Unbearable. One reason I don't have it anymore. Maybe the rear doesn't get any hotter the the front but it is only a couple of inches from the inner thigh. Twin Cam Harleys are the pits.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2022, 05:28:32 AM »
If I still had it I would let you ride my 110" Harley in stop and traffic on a 90+ degree day. The heat will get so bad you will have to shut it down when stopped. Unbearable. One reason I don't have it anymore. Maybe the rear doesn't get any hotter the the front but it is only a couple of inches from the inner thigh. Twin Cam Harleys are the pits.
kk

My 103HO gets hot but it doesn't bother me as much as my Breva 1100 did.

Why?

For starters, police seat puts me a couple inches up and away. Plastic heat shield under frame helps too.

There's usually a solution. But at the end of the day and air-cooled motor is gonna let off heat, that's kinda the point.
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Offline Flaconetti

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2022, 05:40:26 AM »
To Kev m's point, I didn't have an exact figure in mind :laugh: but I think I was comparing it with the Ducati Monster 600 I had years ago, also air cooled, I remember adjusting the mixture on the rear cylinder to make it run cooler (carb model back then) and had a similar temp gauge which was quite stable at 90 and rarely getting close to 100* C from what I can recall

The V7 seems to start at 95 and most times stabilise at 105 going to 115* C sometimes
(temps adjusted taking into account the gauge's offset, I see 110-120 on the gauge but as mentioned earlier it indicates 5-6 deg higher)

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2022, 06:48:16 AM »
When I got my Stornello, this was one of the first things I looked into when I got the Stornello. The unusually small oil capacity and lack of oil cooler made me nervous. Every other air cooled bike I have owned had one. The only other that didn't was my 1979 XS1100, and I added a Lockhart Kit to that back in 1985.

General consensus was that the SB doesn't need it, but if I was worried I could add the sump extender for an extra quart of oil to help with heat load. Not convinced, I also stuck one of those dipstick thermometers from MG Cycle and the hottest it ever got was 120c (250f) while commuting in DC in the summer. Normal riding it rarely got above 115. When it got super hot, you could hear a clear difference in the motor, some pinging, etc. I only felt it was overheated those few times, and a 5 minute change of the oil was too easy. I flog the bike every time I ride it, and the temps are almost always good. I'm going on a group ride today with a bunch of my Soldiers. It is expected to be in the 90's so I am more worried about ME and my Northern European heritage to be more of a concern........

I just make sure my level is good and just don't worry about it anymore. Also decided to do a 3K change of the oil, with filter at 6K, and have yet to put on the sump. I will do it one day when I am low on projects.
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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2022, 07:59:57 AM »
If ya ever looked inside a MkII sump you would see the corrugated floor of the sump . This increases surface area to increase heat transfer . That said i was concerned too , and as my “adv. Riding “days are in the mirrors I went with a sump spacer ! I don’t think a bit of “extra”oil will hurt . Yeah I’ve heard the “the oil will never come up to temp “side of things . But I’ll take that gamble too

Offline Flaconetti

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2022, 01:38:12 PM »
If ya ever looked inside a MkII sump you would see the corrugated floor of the sump . This increases surface area to increase heat transfer . That said i was concerned too , and as my “adv. Riding “days are in the mirrors I went with a sump spacer ! I don’t think a bit of “extra”oil will hurt . Yeah I’ve heard the “the oil will never come up to temp “side of things . But I’ll take that gamble too

I did consider the sump spacer but was worried about the ground clearance.. have you got a pic of yours?  :gotpics:
it takes about 1 litre more oil I believe?

I thought the <potential> oil cooler option would be more flexible and without losing ground clearance..

Online Frenchfrog

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2022, 03:43:28 PM »
The only people outside of Italy who I know have done small bloc oil coolers  are here  https://guzziepiushop.de/  in Germany.

Offline malik

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2022, 10:39:03 PM »
I think you'll find the V7 runs cool anyway. I haven't felt the need for either a cooler or a bigger sump in 230,000km on the V7C or 140,000km on the V7 Special. All work fine without. Just ride. Good enough.
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Offline SmithSwede

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2022, 11:16:13 PM »
I agree with Malik.  I’ve got 150,000 miles on a 2013 V7 Stone, riding largely in Texas.  No oil cooler and no extended sump.  Just ride it.  It’s fine. 
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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2022, 06:38:46 AM »
I’m very encouraged to see the big Mi. Small blocks out there. As I’m a recent return to the Guzzi fold . Previous experience was a basket Sp 1000 , back in 86 . I was initially concerned by the low volume of oil & the propensity to pump oil into the air filter housing (subject well covered on many previous posts.) Once the engine on my V7II got past around 10k Mi. Things seem to have settled in nicely too. Any way I’ve had no Ill effects from the sump spacer & haven’t “grounded” it even on some fairly gentle dirt roading. If it’s passable to passenger cars I’m going , no ADV stuff !
That said I’m impressed by the improvements on the V7/850 engine , only 6K Mi. So far but non of the teething issues of the earlier unit . All in all I’m quite happy with both bikes . When asked what they’re like my usual response is “It’s like doing a polka with a 100 Lb. Girl” . I’m usually anxious for my next spin around the dance floor .

Offline Kev m

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2022, 08:57:53 AM »
I did consider the sump spacer but was worried about the ground clearance.. have you got a pic of yours?  :gotpics:
it takes about 1 litre more oil I believe?

I thought the <potential> oil cooler option would be more flexible and without losing ground clearance..

I can help with pics.

I'll repeat that I have no regrets with the sump spacer on the MKI, but also that I feel no need to install one on the MKIII.

With spacer:



I had to go WAY back in my archives to the day I got it (parked in front of FBF) to show a pic without the spacer, and even then it's not the same angle, but gives you some idea:





Here's a V7C parked next to it that didn't have a spacer



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Offline Flaconetti

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2022, 09:11:27 AM »
Thanks Kev m for the pics, so you had no issues with the ground clearance? I don't plan to take it off road or anything but looks like it does extend a bit.

Re https://guzziepiushop.de/ that's exactly what I had in mind, just a way to tap into the feed to add a radiator:




Seems like everyone's advice is to keep using it as is, will continue to monitor this maybe I'll get used to seeing higher temps  :shocked:

Cheers!

Offline Kev m

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2022, 12:11:30 PM »
Thanks Kev m for the pics, so you had no issues with the ground clearance? I don't plan to take it off road or anything but looks like it does extend a bit.

Re https://guzziepiushop.de/ that's exactly what I had in mind, just a way to tap into the feed to add a radiator:




Seems like everyone's advice is to keep using it as is, will continue to monitor this maybe I'll get used to seeing higher temps  :shocked:

Cheers!

Yes, no worries with ground clearance these what almost 10 years now, though I pretty much ride on paved roads. Still speed bumps, potholes, etc, have never been a worry.

And yes, I think you shouldn't worry about the oil temp.
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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2022, 11:44:45 AM »
Thanks Kev m for the pics, so you had no issues with the ground clearance? I don't plan to take it off road or anything but looks like it does extend a bit.

Re https://guzziepiushop.de/ that's exactly what I had in mind, just a way to tap into the feed to add a radiator:




Seems like everyone's advice is to keep using it as is, will continue to monitor this maybe I'll get used to seeing higher temps  :shocked:

Cheers!

I think Bill Hagan has the spacer on his AND has the Agostini bash plate below that. He doesn't go over logs or rocks (well on purpose  :evil:)
but does take dirt and gravel paths. AFAIK, he has done so  without issue.
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Offline sign216

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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2022, 06:01:44 AM »
The only people outside of Italy who I know have done small bloc oil coolers  are here  https://guzziepiushop.de/  in Germany.

Isn't there a shop in the Netherlands that offers a smallblock cooler, using a sump extender?
I've hesitate on that, because the cooler is "in between" the pickup and the oil pump, and the danger of interrupting that flow is more important than oil cooling.

I recall Guzzi did add a cooler for their smallblock Baja desert racer, but it was race-only.  They replaced the oil filter w an attachment for the cooler circuit.

And V65 racer Ed Milich tried, but couldn't effectively add a cooler to his race bike.  In the end he said it was a "wanted item" not a "needed item."
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Re: V7 Oil Cooler?
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2022, 06:54:31 AM »
As far as I know those sumps are no longer available as I tried to find one for a buddy who was going out to west Africa recently. I offered to lend him mine ....the amount of actual cooling they do is very marginal. I should have gone for the simple sump extender so as to significantly increase the oil quantity but we all make mistakes sometimes!


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