Author Topic: Hydro oil change  (Read 368 times)

Online drdwb

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Hydro oil change
« on: July 30, 2021, 12:53:08 PM »
Doing oil change on 03 EV  31461 on odometer when quit, approximately 10,000 since so probably 40 thousand on bike. The Valve recall was done on bike by authorized dealer, I know personally and trust around 6000 miles, it was making noise when the fix was done and I saw how paper thin the valves were when changed. He showed me the metal fillings they found, ( Ugly) so the dealer also replaced the oil pump at that time. Iíve changed the oil about every 2500-3000 miles according to my records. Since Iíve owned this bike Iíve always used Rotella T6 5w-40
every change.

My concern question to the esteemed experts here is what can/ should I be looking at to see if the engine is tearing its self up.
The picture shows little particles which were laying on the bottom of the pan, they are magnetic. If the bike is making more noise than normal, itís come on more gradual and hasnít been noticeable .

So what would you do? What should I look at. Or just add oil and forget about it?
I should add I have not noticed junk like this with any previous change.





« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 12:56:19 PM by drdwb »
07 Norge, 05 Baby Breva, 04 Stone  Touring , 03 EV, 82 650 Maxim 79 XS750 Special 78XS1100 Teraplane side car

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2021, 01:34:23 PM »
I would drop the pan and clean it, put fuel through the port holes & blow it through the pop valve w/compressed air, making sure it pops at 80#, cut the oil filter apart and look. Supposed to do this & clean every 10K mi. with oil filter change. If not just junk it.  Do a compression check for the valves.
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Online Tom H

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2021, 01:46:39 PM »
You mentioned magnetic. But, maybe the timing chain tensioner has been worn down to metal? My '04's was worn badly at about 20,000 miles.

Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo V1000
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
1953 Triumph 6T (one day it will be on the road!)

Online drdwb

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2021, 03:23:47 PM »
Thanks for responses suggestions, Guzzi Steve,  I was in process of throughly cleaning pan, sprayed  starting fluid ( my favorite parts cleaner) through all ports and followed with compressed air nothing showed up as I dumped the fluid through screen with coffee filter. I ran a small magnet through all the  accessible crevices in the lower end, nothing came of that. Hadnít thought about timing chain tensioner thanks for that suggestion Tom.

Anybody know acceptable compression # off hand?  Ill pull valve covers and look for crap there but doubt Iíll see anything there.

Whatís the easiest technique for opening the filter without introducing more metal fillings into it?
07 Norge, 05 Baby Breva, 04 Stone  Touring , 03 EV, 82 650 Maxim 79 XS750 Special 78XS1100 Teraplane side car

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2021, 03:23:47 PM »

Online Zoom Zoom

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2021, 03:37:27 PM »
Besides the previous suggestion of dropping the pan and cleaning, I would also send an oil sample in to have it analyzed. The particulates will tell you what is wearing.

John Henry 
A wide, unfettered road ahead,
and the flying motor singing.
Samuel C. Lancaster 1921

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2021, 03:57:22 PM »
A pipe cutter has a roller blade, get one big enough would be the issue.
Compression should be around 180#, 150 is acceptable and won't run by 80#.
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Online drdwb

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2021, 05:55:03 PM »

Grinder with cutting disk opened it up. Un folded each pleat and ran magnet along surface, only one other similar particle found.
Compression check with my 45 yr old leaking tester I got 110 on LF and 120 on right.  Looks like a lot of time / work to check timing chain adjuster.

Iíd like to have a replacement on hand before investing that effort. So putting fluid back in and going to be listening  to the engine very closely. Just hope the Guzzi Gods look out for my engine until this winter. Thanks for recommendations.



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Online Tom H

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2021, 05:57:08 PM »
Since you have the pan off. Grab a flashlight and look up in the engine. You can see the cam and I think the tappets. Does anything look scratched, gouged, ect.. Rotate the crank BY HAND and look again, watch out for dripping oil when you do. If you have one of those snake/inspection USB cameras, that can be of help looking up at the cam.

If nothing looks bad. Then it might be time to pull the timing cover and look at the tensioner, chain and sprockets for any damage. While your in there might as well pull the pump and check for damage. With the chunks you have, if it was a sprocket or pump, the damage would be obvious. Tensioner obvious as well.

If you do pull the front cover, you might as well change the cover seal and gasket since your in there. I don't remember if it needs an O ring to seal the cover like a Loop????

IIRR, the alternator uses the BMW stile removal technique. Either the proper tool or a hardened steel rod and a bolt. When you do go to remove it. Tighten the tool/bolt  FIRMLY or a tad more. The rotor will not come off by turning the tool/bolt. Once FIRMLY tightened, give the end of the tool/bolt a good rap with a hammer. It normally pops right off. If not, snug the bolt some more and repeat. Oh, be ready to catch it when you rap it.

Good luck,
Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo V1000
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
1953 Triumph 6T (one day it will be on the road!)

Online drdwb

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2021, 09:29:17 PM »
Tom thanks for all that info particularly enjoyed ď oh be ready to catch it ď.  I figured it would take special tool ( #  xyz- you donít got it in your box).  I was into the wifeís Breva  alternator 2 weeks ago ,stoped at the removal part.. so now I have a purpose to acquire another tool.

I did look up as far as I could comfortably twist my neck. Havenít put oil back in yet, Iíve been waiting to see what the experts like you suggest. Oh boy a tiny video camera tool is now also on the list. If I can find one locally thatís a great idea to help ease the boggie man fears and put off the job until I can get all the suggested parts and tackle all the maintenance issues at once.  Iím in the process of hanging my Vetter Teraplane  sidecar on it  makes more sense to get the potential ride stopping shit done before the hack is on. Thatís why I love this group and appreciate the responses. Itís like having access to info a bigger brain might think of .
07 Norge, 05 Baby Breva, 04 Stone  Touring , 03 EV, 82 650 Maxim 79 XS750 Special 78XS1100 Teraplane side car

Offline Mr Revhead

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2021, 03:49:51 AM »
Had something similar with my 03 a couple of years back.
It was just after a trip where I'd done around 1500ks, the last 500 or so at high-speed and I'd also had an embarrassing lie over when I mis placed my foot.

Basically I worked out that  had resulted is more oil than usual going though the breather system and flushing out swarf left in the frame.

Metallic stuff in the sump, and I also cut open the filter which was spotless.

If your filter is clear, ride on.

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2021, 05:59:22 AM »

Oh boy a tiny video camera tool is now also on the list.


I just bought this one so I could have a look in the tank at the fuel filter. Works good. I have read where the cheap ones that connect to your cell phone are unreliable. I guess the app can be flaky.

https://www.solidsignal.com/Pro-Inspection-Camera-With-16ft-Semi-Rigid-Cable-and-4.3-Screen-PROSCOPE

John Henry
A wide, unfettered road ahead,
and the flying motor singing.
Samuel C. Lancaster 1921

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2021, 07:45:34 AM »
110 & 120# compression is kinda low but motor is cold. Something to address later.
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2021, 08:35:41 AM »
This is rust particles from the frame. The frame is used for the crankcase vent system. It get a good bit of moisture up in the frame and it rusts the inside of the frame. Occasionally a bit of rust gets back in the sump.

There isn't anything in the motor that would wear like that and not be totally destroyed quickly.

Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Offline John Croucher

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2021, 01:17:00 PM »
Worn valve stems and rocker arms from low oil flow caused by leaks in extra oiling needed for lifters. 

Seen this on 3 hydo motors with 20,000 miles. 

New oil pump is suppose to help. 




Offline John Croucher

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Re: Hydro oil change
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2021, 01:22:59 PM »
Tom thanks for all that info particularly enjoyed ď oh be ready to catch it ď.  I figured it would take special tool ( #  xyz- you donít got it in your box).  I was into the wifeís Breva  alternator 2 weeks ago ,stoped at the removal part.. so now I have a purpose to acquire another tool.

I did look up as far as I could comfortably twist my neck. Havenít put oil back in yet, Iíve been waiting to see what the experts like you suggest. Oh boy a tiny video camera tool is now also on the list. If I can find one locally thatís a great idea to help ease the boggie man fears and put off the job until I can get all the suggested parts and tackle all the maintenance issues at once.  Iím in the process of hanging my Vetter Teraplane  sidecar on it  makes more sense to get the potential ride stopping shit done before the hack is on. Thatís why I love this group and appreciate the responses. Itís like having access to info a bigger brain might think of .

Use an old Allen wrench to make the removal rod.  Cut to right length. Chamfer ends.

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