eldo build...some questions

[harrytief]

I'm starting to sort through what I've accumulated for use in my eldo build up and have two engines to choose from. There is the original 850 that is now blasted and bathed clean (both engine and transmission) and an 850T engine that is still together (transmission apart and cases cleaned). I am thinking of this build to be a rider but with that wonderful loop frame aesthetic so I'd like to do updates/upgrades. What are the virtues of choosing to upgrade the eldo drive train? I've done the obvious by replacing the original piston/cylinders with gilardoni but I am undecided about the 850T vs eldo heads, carbs, charging systems and oil filtration (can I mount an outsider on either engine?). Thoughts ?
Thanks
Harry

[harrytief]

The rockers and push rods on the eldo are in great shape but I've read that 850T3 rockers and rods are improved. How? Worth it?
Thanks
Harry

[Perazzimx14]

I'm starting to sort through what I've accumulated for use in my eldo build up and have two engines to choose from. There is the original 850 that is now blasted and bathed clean (both engine and transmission) and an 850T engine that is still together (transmission apart and cases cleaned). I am thinking of this build to be a rider but with that wonderful loop frame aesthetic so I'd like to do updates/upgrades. What are the virtues of choosing to upgrade the eldo drive train? I've done the obvious by replacing the original piston/cylinders with gilardoni but I am undecided about the 850T vs eldo heads, carbs, charging systems and oil filtration (can I mount an outsider on either engine?). Thoughts ?
Thanks
Harry

Don't get hung up on the lack of an oil filter on the Eldorado block. There are plenty of examples out there with 6 digit mileage and still chugging along. Makes one wonder if an oil filter is really a necessity.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

What are the virtues of choosing to upgrade the eldo drive train? I've done the obvious by replacing the original piston/cylinders with gilardoni but I am undecided about the 850T vs eldo heads, carbs, charging systems and oil filtration (can I mount an outsider on either engine?). Thoughts ?
Thanks
Harry

Both sets of heads have the same valve sizes and are virtually identical save the way the headpipe attaches and maybe the fin shape. If you choose the T heads and intend on using the Loop headpipes, you'll need to cut a short piece off of the pipe at the flange and make some sort of a centering bushing too. That or change the flanges to the Tonti type (cut and weld).

29 and 30 VHBs are virtually identical in function, use either.

Charging system: the Loop generator is 300 watts, more powerful the stock T alternator and easily upgraded to 600 watts with a Scrambler Cycle alternator kit. The T can be upgraded to 450 watts, but at nearly 2 times the cost of the Scrambler Cycle kit. Also, if you use the T engine with crank mount alternator, you may have interference issues (alt. cover hitting front fender brace) and will have to make adapters to use the Tonti timing cover in the Loop frame (details on This Old Tractor). If I were going to use the T engine, I'd swap the Eldo timing cover onto it, buy a crank adapter (so you can use the Eldo crank pulley), drill and tap the holes in the top of the engine case (if they aren't already) to mount the generator/alternator up there.

Oil filtration: the Eldo engine case can be modified (see This Old Tractor) to use a filter. Does the T engine already have an internal filter? If you use an Outsider or other similar external filter setup, you will lose precious ground clearance under the sump. Loops already have a relatively low sump, an Outsider or similar will only make that worse.

Rockers and pushrods: I see nothing to be gained from the T3 rockers and pushrods (you'd also need the lifters and adjustment screws as well). Perhaps slightly quieter operation, but that's about it. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Keep the original engine especially if the No matches the frame.
I pondered over staying with 850 jugs or going up to 1000, I stayed at 850, I can tell you it has tons of power.
I figured out how to add a filter inside the crank case but in the end I left that out also.
The only weak point of the original heads is the exhaust nuts, both mine are stripped but a strip of beer can
fixed that.

Nothing I did got the cases to look good so in the end I just sprayed them with engine paint, that's how most other
Guzzis are done, easy to touch up.

[nick949]

Harry - the old Eldo engines roll along just fine 

Nick

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Nothing I did got the cases to look good so in the end I just sprayed them with engine paint, that's how most other
Guzzis are done, easy to touch up.

I've had good results with both chemical (aluminum brightener) and soda blasting. Guzzi didn't start painting big-block engines until the '90s IIRC.

[normzone]

Back in the eighties I just ran any old oil in my Eldo and dumped it every thousand miles. Worked great, ran strong...

[harrytief]

I'll take the advice to stay with the eldo block. I've read the posting up on Greg Bender's site describing how to add an interior oil filter. Seems like a good idea as I have the block stripped down for a rebuild. Looks like I need a oil pan from a big block with an oil filter. Anyone have one for sale?
Will either of the outside oil filter/spacer plates offered by Harpers and MG Cycle fit the eldo block after the eldo block has been modified for an interior oil filter?
Will there be clearance issues?
Thanks guys
Harry

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Will either of the outside oil filter/spacer plates offered by Harpers and MG Cycle fit the eldo block after the eldo block has been modified for an interior oil filter?
Will there be clearance issues?

Yes, once the Eldo block is modified, an Outsider or other external filter setup will work. But, as I wrote before, lack of ground clearance will be more of an issue. Loops already set quite low (that's why they have "skid plates" on the sump from the factory) and a external filter setup will reduce that by another 30 mm or so.

[harrytief]

Oops...I also need the front bearing housing from an engine with interior oil filter. Anyone have both pan and housing as spares to sell?
Am I missing anything else?
Thanks Charlie. Good point. I'll do the build and see what I have before doing an external filter.
Harry

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Oops...I also need the front bearing housing from an engine with interior oil filter. Anyone have both pan and housing as spares to sell?
Am I missing anything else?
Thanks Charlie. Good point. I'll do the build and see what I have before doing an external filter.
Harry

I'd buy the bearing new, $98.05 at MG Cycle:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_126&products_id=413

[Kiwi_Roy]

There's quite a bit of room inside the Eldo sump, Gilladoni kits were unavailable so I planned on running with the dreaded chrome bores with a filter to catch all the flakes.
The filter off a Honda Civic will easily fit in there, the tricky part is getting the filtered oil back to the front main bearing. I should have just settled on filtering oil to the rear main, it would have been easy.
In the end the Giladoni kits became available again so I just said screw it and put it back together without a filter.




If you have access to a machine shop I think it would be a no brainer to add a filter without making any alterations to the castings.

[canuck750]

I would not recommend painting the block, the paint will likely just start to peel off in short order, even if you get the block super clean with acid and soda blast, I made the mistake of painting my Eldorado block an bright aluminum colour, wish I had never done that. It has been peeling for three years.
On all other engines I have rebuilt since I first clean with acid (aluminum brightener diluted 5 / 1) followed immediately by a high pressure hot car wash to blast off the oxidation released by the acid and then once dry I go over the aluminum with pressure baking soda blast. Once you finish reassembling the engine wash it all down with acetone then again once dry coat the aluminum with ACF50, this will keep it looking like new for a very long time.

This is a V7 Sport block after acid cleaning, pressure washing and soda blasting



And this is how the same motor looked before disassembly and cleaning



Acid is available from NAPA as 'Aluminum Brightener' - wear a full face respirator mask and rubber gloves and soak the parts in a very well ventilated space, after foaming up for a couple minutes blast the part with high pressure and then repeat until the part is clean. once dry there will be some trace of latent oxidation that a soda blast will quickly remove. All you need is a pail of baking soda, an air compressor and a simple siphon blow gun (Harbour Freight for under $20.00), Stick the siphon tube in the pail of soda, hook up the blow gun to your air compressor and blast away outdoors, The reside is harmless baking soda. The results are amazing and it will not harm and delicate aluminum or steel parts.

Rocker covers before and after



Corroded Borrani wheel



Acid foaming up on a wheel



And cleaned with soda



Do not use glass bead on any engine, transmission or rear drive parts, you may as well throw a hand full of sand into your motor, same result from glass beads finding their way into a bearing wear surface.

Cheers

Jim