Hi there

[Kiwi_Roy]

One lucky goose I say ;D

I wouldn't be game to attack that project.

Way to go Donna  ;-T

[Rob Morton]

Well Ive got all the parts all from Gutsibits,they have been very helpful,just need my weekend off now

Knew Gutsibits did second hand but did not realise it was extensive.

Donna looks like your a dab hand on Guzzi's.  ;-T

Rob

[tris]

Hi ST

Not sure if you've got everything in hand baut just saw this if you get stuck  ;-T

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTO-GUZZI-SMALLBLOCK-GEARBOX-V-35-V50-V65-V75-/281328333482?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1120

[Rob Morton]

Hi ST

Not sure if you've got everything in hand baut just saw this if you get stuck  ;-T

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTO-GUZZI-SMALLBLOCK-GEARBOX-V-35-V50-V65-V75-/281328333482?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1120

Donna that has to be a good deal even if what's inside is ....

 :)

Rob

[wildduck]

Very impressive, keep up the good work,

John

[Zoom Zoom]

Glad to see you're making such quick progress. You'll have it on the road in no time.  ;-T

John Henry

[Snowtigeress]

That's it MY weekend off at last.

Well I have come across a Snag...I have took the clips off the UJ so I could grease inside it but cant get the disc's out any suggestions?

Anyone done it?... have tried a smaller socket onto the disc and hit it with a hammer but they aren't budging

[Cheese]

6 or 8" "C" clamp with sockets as press tooling? Larger on one side, smaller on the other?

Peter

[redrider]

A press would be best but I have used a vise. Small socket to push and a large one on the other side. The trick is to keep the joint body from flexing. The item is line bored to ensure exact alignment.

Cheers

[Tobit]

           ditto ;D

And again. 

Every once in a while someone comes along and makes their place immediately.  Impressive introduction, I'll be watching for updates.  I'll second what Roper said about the lube shield that came along later in the small block transmissions.  And the breather.  I had a Monza for a while and it liked to drool all over itself if I filled the trans sufficiently.  Dave Richardson's Guzziology has information on when the 5th gear lube shield was introduced.  I don't remember when either.

 ;-T ;-T

[rodekyll]

I don't know how familiar you are with u-joints, so I'll assume no experience.

The u-joint 'discs' are not discs.  They are cups.  The cup inner side wall is covered in a layer of pin rollers.  The cross of the u-joint inserts into the cup/pin rollers.

To remove, first get all the clips out.  Then check for peens around the margins of the cup.  If there are any peens or burrs, dress them out with a dremel.

Now set a larger socket than the cup against a cup.  Use a socket just smaller than the cup on the other side as a press bar.  

Set the entire mess into a vise or press and apply pressure.  Once the pressure is firm (but well before distorting anything) pop the press base or vice jaw a smart blow with a ballpeen hammer.  Readjust pressure.  Pop it again.  etc.  Until the cups have moved enough for the u-joint's cross to contact the side of the yoke.

Remove the stuff from the vice.  If you're lucky, the cap will fall out, the pin rollers will stay in place, and the seals at the lip of the cap will be soft and vital.

If you're not lucky, any kind of shit can happen -- cap breaks (it's VERY brittle), cap is still seized in the yoke, pin rollers scatter across the floor (or worse -- bits of pin rollers scatter across the floor), seals are hard, cracked, broken, etc.  Not discussing any of that in this post.

Assuming the cap is well behaved, once you get it moved enough to grab with pliars, it should be a twist-and-pull to remove.  Again, WATCH FOR PIN ROLLERS!!!

With the first cap off, the second can be removed by drifting the yoke the opposite direction.  Before doing the drift, check the bore and dremel out any burrs or peens.

If you are forced to use heat to relax the yoke bores, you will probably cook the grease seals.  So be prepared to replace them.  If there are a lot of hot miles on the drive shaft you might have to replace the seals anyway.  

You can avoid all of this if you drill out the cap ends and tap them for a zirc fitting.  Depending on the cross design (if it has a bore through the axis of the crosses) you might only have to drill one cap.  If the cross is cross-bored and you can get to the intersection of the bores, you can do a single drill at that point.  There's no room for a zirc fitting in the assembly, so only install the zirc for servicing.  For assembly, use a zirc hole plug.

Once you have the crosses out, look for any excuse to not reassemble the u-joint.  Notched crosses or caps, ground up rollers, clunky slop, etc. all indicate tossing the crosses (they're available separately).  Out-of-round yoke bores or out-of-square/worn shaft splines indicate tossing the yoke (not available separately -- if this happens you're probably buying the entire assembly).  It's much better to sort this out on the bench than beside the AlCan.  Ask me how I know.   ;)

[Snowtigeress]

6 or 8" "C" clamp with sockets as press tooling? Larger on one side, smaller on the other?

Peter

Well I tried this and now need to buy 2 new clamps oops :o


and only got a quarter out

[Chuck in Indiana]

Better go with a vise.  ;D If you *have* to use C clamps, buy really good ones. You'll be glad you did.

[Snowtigeress]

Better go with a vise.  ;D If you *have* to use C clamps, buy really good ones. You'll be glad you did.

Going to buy a vice today,also go and get the oil seal........but I ache this morning have dug out all the bushes and trees out the front garden yesterday after work.............as fed up of the other halves forest.........just got to dig it over and level......but its been raining over night so might play with bike bits today instead......... that's my excuse ;-T

[balvenie]

              Makes sense to wash your bike when it rains ;D

[Snowtigeress]

              Makes sense to wash your bike when it rains ;D

Cant wash it got to rebuild it first

[Tom]

Hang in there. ;-T

[Snowtigeress]

It was my week-end off, and I wanted to put the box back together. I've been waiting on a new out-put shaft seal... it arrived yesterday. that's why I was looking at the Universal Joint... which will have come from a bike at least as old as mine, and if it went 'dry' in mine making it seize and smash everything, I want to make sure this one wont do the same.

Breaking Tef's clamps though, has halted that until I get a vice.

So, I made the gaskets for the box.


Nice fresh new gasket paper, and a sharp craft knife, and....

Then shortly after that...


Fitted the new seal to the new casing.





Time to get the box back together!



Lining up all the shafts....you have to put them all in at the same time

But for some reason, it doesn't seem to want to line up properly."TEF"

Twenty minutes of swearing later, I found out why!


New Casing, input-shaft end bearing diameter...... 41.9mm


Old Casing, input shaft end bearing diameter....... 39.9mm

SO, Stumped AGAIN!

Have emailed Gutsibits for either a bigger bearing or different case

And it was going Oh So well :o

[balvenie]

            Wot a Beatch >:(

[Tom]

Great work! ;-T

[Rob Morton]

So, I made the gaskets for the box.


Nice fresh new gasket paper, and a sharp craft knife, and....

Then shortly after that...


[/quote]

Donna great to see someone making gaskets the old fashioned way.
You might get a cleaner job if you tap round the external and internal face edges with a wooden mallet or something soft enough not to damage the face edges.
After taking the marked gasket paper off the to be sealed part. Cut out with sharp scissors.

 :)

Rob

[Chuck in Indiana]

Now, *that* is really strange..  ??? I wonder why they would have gone to a different size bearing..

[Vasco DG]

Probably because the earlier bearing was specified because it was what was thought was required in engineering terms rather than being cross referenced with something 'Off the shelf'. It would be interesting to see if the earlier bearing is a standard ISO size or not.

It could also be that the early smallblocks were 350's and 500's. Perhaps when they introduced the 650's they beefed up the bearing? At this distance in time we'll probably never know but it is useful to know.

Thanks.

Pete

[Muzz]

Probably because the earlier bearing was specified because it was what was thought was required in engineering terms rather than being cross referenced with something 'Off the shelf'. It would be interesting to see if the earlier bearing is a standard ISO size or not.

It could also be that the early smallblocks were 350's and 500's. Perhaps when they introduced the 650's they beefed up the bearing? At this distance in time we'll probably never know but it is useful to know.

Thanks.

Pete

Pete, when Kev and I first attacked my gearbox we thought we were all prepared coz he had a clutch tool. Found that the input shaft on the Monza box was way smaller than the Breva, and the clutch tool was way too small. You know the rest of the story. :D They obviously changed a few things as the years went by.

[Vasco DG]

Yup. They got better!

Pete

[Snowtigeress]

Whoo-Hooo! BANK-HOLIDAY! I got a day off! where's me guzzi.. guzzi... Guzzi-Guzzi-Guzzi-G-U-Z-Z-I!

Right; well, Guzzibits came through with a new gear-box end case; SO....


Looks like it all fits.... :-)

NOW comes the fiddly bit... Tef insisted I couldn't just put everthing back together and bolt it all up; I HAD to do a 'Dry-Build'; putting it back together without gaskets or anything and twisting shafts by hand to make sure that all the gears worked as they should, and I'd got the mechanism all adjusted as it ought to be.
This is rather fiddly; with the output shaft hidden in that turrent in the end casing, and the shafts only supported in the end casing...
BUT, discovered that two of the gearbox mounting holes are the same distance apart as the starter motor mounting holes on the bell-housing.... soooo, two bolts and a nut to space the bosses level, I was able to bolt the gearbox end casing to the bell-housing 'wrong' and use the bell-hoising as a 'stand' while I fiddled.
Just as well, actually, cos after making sure all the gears selected, found that the selector ratched didn't engage them! I had a washer on the wrong side of the return spring!
[sigh]Yes Tef, You DID 'tell me so'! You were 'right' as ALWAYS, yes, now I know why you dry-build a gearbox! Stop gloating and take a photo!

Next job, same again with the casing on, and the 'detent-plunger' that tef tells me is what clicks the selector drum in the 'in gear' position, in place.

I THINK that all the gears click through....
Anyway, that's as far as I've got.
I'm worried; I have an O-Ring and Circlip left over! and I'm trying to work out where the bits that came in a box when we picked the bike up from Noobrider belong at the minute!
And I cant do very much more, as I need a shaft locking tool to put the effof tight bolts back on the end. Remember, I used the broken UJ and a drift to lock them to get them off... BUT... now I have a new casing.... I cant do that!
And Oh FFS! Its a Bank HOLIDAY! Guzzi-bits wont be open 'till Tuesday to even order the tool or, if its too expensive, do as book suggests and weld a bar to an old clutch-plate. Guzzi-Bits sell old clutch plates. Probably for this very reason, for about £6. New clutch plates are like £50! So I dont REALLY want to butcher the one I have if I can help it!
OK, what else can I do? Well, the swing-arm bearings in the new casing are rather grindy and dry... so Ah! I need a 'Blind' bearing puller. Tef dont have one. Neither does Nick-at-the-end-of-the-road.
I have ordered one of e-bay. I wonder how long it'll be 'till 'the boys' start asking to borrow MY tools!
UJ.
Brad (car mechanic across the road) has had a look at my UJ for me. He cant get the ruddy cups out so I can grease it, either.
Beginning to get a BIT frustrating this....

[Chuck in Indiana]

Hang in there, you're almost home.  ;D I have a spare clutch plate.. and.. a blind bearing puller. Just pop over here to Indiana, and I'll loan them to you.  ;D :BEER:

[Muzz]

How big are the offending articles?

I have had the Breva box apart a couple of times ::) and I seem to remember there is a circlip between (I think) 4th and 5th.

There is a small O ring that seals the clutch rod.....

[Snowtigeress]

Hang in there, you're almost home.  ;D I have a spare clutch plate.. and.. a blind bearing puller. Just pop over here to Indiana, and I'll loan them to you.  ;D :BEER:

I would love too but I think it would cost more coming to fetch them than getting them from ebay and Guzzibits,have been wanting to go to the old south for nearly 20 years,might get there one day

How big are the offending articles?

I have had the Breva box apart a couple of times ::) and I seem to remember there is a circlip between (I think) 4th and 5th.

There is a small O ring that seals the clutch rod.....

I have not split the gogs from the shafts so cant be from there,I have the manuals but thery are so confusing to find part when the pictures and part names are pages apart,Wonders if someone has just put them in my tub to confuse me and they arent from the guzzi.....Tef

Right the O-ring is 26mm id and about 2mm thick
the circlip  we have id as it came off the old UJ when we used it as a locking tool

[dilligaf]

Try here.  Parts number and names are one same page.


http://www.harpermoto.com/

For example.

http://www.harpermoto.com/parts-by-motorcycle/1980-90-moto-guzzi-motorcycles/v-65-custom-650-1982-1985/gear-box-en-v65-custom-650-1982-1985.html
 :BEER:
Matt