V50iii vs. Ambo (first MG)?

[Mwether]

Editing the post to get your thoughts comparing/contrasting these two bikes as a first Guzzi:

1979 V50iii, 26K miles, $1600
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/801983888555711/

1971 Moto Guzzi V7 Ambassador, 12K miles, $3,800
https://www.facebook.com/commerce/listing/1631782620931005/

-------------------------------------------------------

ORIGINAL POST

How dumb would this be as a first Goose...?

1979 V50iii $1,600
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/801983888555711/

It's not a Loop, but it's pretty cool and the right size.

[Perazzimx14]

How dumb would this be as a first Goose...?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/801983888555711/

It's not a Loop, but it's pretty cool and the right size.

Much better than the Nevada, but I like the V50 especially the MK3's.

[Tkelly]

The v50 is the right size and goes 100 mph,perfect for your mountain roads.Buy it and don’t come back here until you do.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Except that's not a V50 III, looks like a II with III sidecovers and tank. The III didn't start until '81, so if that's a '79 then it's definitely a II. Not as peppy as the III - smaller valves and carbs, trouble prone Bosch electronic ignition. Front brake master cylinder under the tank, copying BMW.

The Ambassador looks good overall, but there's no mention of whether the cylinders are still the original chrome plated bores. If they are, then figure another $900 to have the cylinders replated, new rings, and gaskets. More if you can't do your own work. The chrome bores commonly flake and the shards of chrome destroy the bearings, crank and oil pump if left go long enough.

[Tkelly]

The Bosch ignition on our 79 never has failed.Plenty of power for mountain roads and great handling and brakes.For the price,if it runs good,a great deal regardless of cosmetics.

[Mwether]

Except that's not a V50 III, looks like a II with III sidecovers and tank. The III didn't start until '81, so if that's a '79 then it's definitely a II. Not as peppy as the III - smaller valves and carbs, trouble prone Bosch electronic ignition. Front brake master cylinder under the tank, copying BMW.

Charlie, your eagle eye is priceless.
Is it possible that he's wrong about the year and it IS a III, or are there other telltales that indicate it isn't?

The Ambassador looks good overall, but there's no mention of whether the cylinders are still the original chrome plated bores. If they are, then figure another $900 to have the cylinders replated, new rings, and gaskets. More if you can't do your own work. The chrome bores commonly flake and the shards of chrome destroy the bearings, crank and oil pump if left go long enough.

Whether the bores have been replated will be the first question I ask.
If not, that might explain why it seems to be on the low end of the market... 

[Mwether]

Also found this nine-year-old thread. A good resource on the V50iii, which the first bike may not even be! 

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=76360.0

[Mwether]

The Bosch ignition on our 79 never has failed.Plenty of power for mountain roads and great handling and brakes.For the price,if it runs good,a great deal regardless of cosmetics.

TKelly, is your V50 a II?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

The Bosch ignition on our 79 never has failed.Plenty of power for mountain roads and great handling and brakes.For the price,if it runs good,a great deal regardless of cosmetics.

Consider yourself lucky. It's very common for the insulation on the wires from the pickups to the amplifiers to degrade causing running issues. Not to mention the advance "curve" is more like an abrupt spike at 4500 rpms.

Charlie, your eagle eye is priceless.
Is it possible that he's wrong about the year and it IS a III, or are there other telltales that indicate it isn't?

Dellorto VHB square slide carburetors vs. PHBH round slide on the III. Little plastic grills under the forward part of the tank hide the amplifier boxes. No master cylinder on the handlebars that I can see. Wrong seat for a III - flat without a step.

I agree that it's probably a good deal at that price, but it's always good to know exactly what you're buying.

Also found this nine-year-old thread. A good resource on the V50iii, which the first bike may not even be! 

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=76360.0

There's a lot of good info. in that thread.

[Mwether]

...I agree that it's probably a good deal at that price, but it's always good to know exactly what you're buying.

Wowzers!

So what I'm buying (maybe) is a II that somebody has masquerading as a III?

Maybe offer $1400 given the chicanery? (Not that I think the seller did it on purpose. The tank and sidecovers probably got switched decades ago...)

[Mwether]

Dellorto VHB square slide carburetors vs. PHBH round slide on the III. Little plastic grills under the forward part of the tank hide the amplifier boxes. No master cylinder on the handlebars that I can see. Wrong seat for a III - flat without a step.

Charlie, this gets weirder...

In comparing these two brochures:

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_more_topics_brochure_-_moto_guzzi_v50_ii.html
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_more_topics_brochure_-_moto_guzzi_v50_iii_-folded_style_brochure-.html

it looks like there's a III front end on the Facebook bike?!

I see vented discs and the caliper behind the fork leg (like the III) as opposed to solid discs and the caliper in front of the fork leg (like the II).

The front fender of the FB bike is also missing the support stay that the II fender has.

Whoa! It's a II.5! 

[John A]

The Ambassador will be way more sturdy, I sure liked mine going across the Plains. The V50 is a fun bike, great for small roads. I would choose the one in the best mechanical condition.

[faffi]

Consider yourself lucky. It's very common for the insulation on the wires from the pickups to the amplifiers to degrade causing running issues. Not to mention the advance "curve" is more like an abrupt spike at 4500 rpms.

There was a reason why they reverted to points in production - Guzzi had serious issues with their early electronic ignition systems.

[Kev m]

Wasn't the V50 a grenade? Something to do with the valves? I sorta remember Pete Roper talking me out of one for Jenn's for bike two decades ago?

[Cam3512]

Wasn't the V50 a grenade? Something to do with the valves? I sorta remember Pete Roper talking me out of one for Jenn's for bike two decades ago?

You’re probably thinking about the Lario?

[Kev m]

You’re probably thinking about the Lario?

I definitely wasn't looking at a Lario for Jenn. But maybe I'm confusing why he thought it was a bomb.

Then again, he never really liked smallblocks all that much in the first place.

[Mwether]

Spoke to the Ambo seller this morning. Great conversation with a guy who owns sixteen Guzzis.

Essentially, he bought the bike cheap to help out a friend and is selling it cheap b/c he doesn't think it's ethical to make a killing under the circumstances.

The bike was almost completely restored ~6 years ago and has T3 jugs, so the cylinder problem is sorted. Bender harness, etc.

It is backfiring on one cylinder and the front turn signals are not attached. He's pretty certain that the backfire is a timing issue. Also mentioned that it could be points. (I think...?)

We made an appointment for me to look at it Sunday.

Thoughts?

[Tkelly]

If it is a 79 it is a 2.

[Kev m]

Spoke to the Ambo seller this morning. Great conversation with a guy who owns sixteen Guzzis.

Essentially, he bought the bike cheap to help out a friend and is selling it cheap b/c he doesn't think it's ethical to make a killing under the circumstances.

The bike was almost completely restored ~6 years ago and has T3 jugs, so the cylinder problem is sorted. Bender harness, etc.

It is backfiring on one cylinder and the front turn signals are not attached. He's pretty certain that the backfire is a timing issue. Also mentioned that it could be points. (I think...?)

We made an appointment for me to look at it Sunday.

Thoughts?

I'm not an old bike guy but that IF that story is true it sounds like an ideal situation. What do you have to lose?

Hmmmm finally looked at it - Pending as of this morning. Damn that looks clean, that's the type of bike that could have made me dip my toes into something old for the hell of it.

[faffi]

I would jump at it. Worst case you get your money back if you decide to sell on. Chances are you will keep it.

[Mwether]

I'm not an old bike guy but that IF that story is true it sounds like an ideal situation. What do you have to lose?

...Pending as of this morning.
...

I agree.
 
And I'm glad to be the "pending" guy. 

[John A]

I don’t do Facebook so haven’t seen either bike but the Ambassador sounds like it’s the right one.

[Mwether]

...the Ambassador sounds like it’s the right one.

I think so.

The V50 seems to be a hybrid that's got some III parts grafted onto a II, while the Ambo has been passed between real Guzziphiles and restored properly? I wish it were running well, but with any luck it'll be an easy fix. Famous last words!!

[Cam3512]

I don’t do Facebook so haven’t seen either bike but the Ambassador sounds like it’s the right one.

Same here.  Backfiring could be a result of the points closing up.  Easy enough to re-gap them.

[Frenchfrog]

83mm T3 jugs were also chrome from the factory so that could still be an issue .If they are 88's then likely to be Nicasil Gillardonis which is what you want really.

[cliffrod]

The fb link to ambassador isnt cooperating with me.  But I saw that V50 at the meltdown (where the show pic was taken) on Saturday.  He rode it in, Not a “bad” bike but it looks way better in those pics than in person.  Owner/ Seller said he had it for a couple of months, still on a paper tag.   I wouldn’t pay $1600 for it.

[Mwether]

...I saw that V50 at the meltdown (where the show pic was taken) on Saturday.  He rode it in, Not a “bad” bike but it looks way better in those pics than in person.  ...I wouldn’t pay $1600 for it.

Thanks. That's very helpful. Another tick in the Ambo's column...

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Wasn't the V50 a grenade? Something to do with the valves? I sorta remember Pete Roper talking me out of one for Jenn's for bike two decades ago?

V50 III and V65 used larger valves than the V50 and V50 II. There doesn't seem to be an issue with the valve failure on the V50 and V50 II, at least not nearly as much as the V50 III and V65.

[Mwether]

V50 III and V65 used larger valves than the V50 and V50 II. There doesn't seem to be an issue with the valve failure on the V50 and V50 II, at least not nearly as much as the V50 III and V65.

I'm feeling better and better that the V50 is no longer in consideration!

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

83mm T3 jugs were also chrome from the factory so that could still be an issue .If they are 88's then likely to be Nicasil Gillardonis which is what you want really.

This ^^^. Unless the T3 cylinders were Gilardoni or replated originals, it's not a good fix. The T3 pistons are different - piston pin location 4 mm lower, so hopefully a) they didn't use the pistons too, or it will have super low compression, and b) if they used the Ambassador pistons, they match the cylinders (pistons and cylinders are "graded" A, B and C and should be matched).

Look between the two bottom-most cylinder fins and check for "GILARDONI" cast in. If nothing there, and if the seller will let you, remove a sparkplug, make sure the piston is down away from TDC, then insert a "pencil magnet" in through the plug hole and touch the cylinder wall. Zero magnetic attraction = chrome, very slight = Nikasil/Nigusil, strong = iron liners.