Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: janguzzi on February 03, 2023, 12:59:19 PM
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Did you know that the Piaggio Group is currently forcing forum and website owners and professional stores to remove the word Guzzi from their names?
This is currently happening in Germany. Latest victim HMB Guzzi.
This is done by lawyers hired by the Piaggio Group.
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Did you know that the Piaggio Group is currently forcing forum and website owners and professional stores to remove the word Guzzi from their names?
This is currently happening in Germany. Latest victim HMB Guzzi.
OK...what's up with that BUFFOONERY?!?
Do they want it to say... "MOTO GUZZI" or what?!? :laugh: :grin: :wink:
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Next will be the Eagle, and don't have any of this on your business card or you are liable for a lawsuit.
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Hopefully this doesn’t grow too much. I PERFECTLY understand the copyright legality…but in many fields, there’s often a threshold that includes gray areas where copyright could be argued, but the company may see it beneficial to continue to allow it.
Example: the case of comic book conventions where scores of artists make commissions and sketches of licensed characters to sell to the public. It’s often expressed that Marvel and DC continue to allow this because it helps their characters stay relevant. In this instance, since the dealer network/dedication is lacking as it is, it might be in the best interest for Piaggio to continue to allow the small number of fans/owners of the brand to help keep the name relevant.
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How about the folks that are making & selling decals for obsolete models? T shirts!
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They tried to go down this route after the buy out if I remember correctly...cannot remember what the outcome was but obviously it was not that significant.
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I've seen this before by Mfgs. Usually they are trying to prevent names like "Steve's Moto Guzzi"
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Stupid. They don’t want free advertising ?
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Harley did the same thing once their popularity skyrocketed so they could make money off the name. That's when the Harley bath towels hit the dealer shelves.
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Harley did the same thing once their popularity skyrocketed so they could make money off the name. That's when the Harley bath towels hit the dealer shelves.
Therein I see the difference.
I’m an artist. I make a piece of art. I don’t want that art going onto any merchandise without my consent, because I deserve the profits. It’s my art, after all.
Now… when it comes to building of communities by collecting people around this art who will eventually want to buy my controlled-license merchandise.
Priorities. It’s not like Luap and these other folks are making a killing off this.
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Do you have more details on this? Was the issue that HMB Guzzi had not previously stated that they are not associated with Moto Guzzi?
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Do you have more details on this? Was the issue that HMB Guzzi had not previously stated that they are not associated with Moto Guzzi?
It seems that this does not change anything - they have mentioned this:
https://hmb-guzzi.de/About-us
=> in the footer
The HMB GUZZI owner is in progress now changing the name to HMB-MOTO to avoid trouble with Piaggio lawers. There is a thread from him in the German Guzzi Forum (more than 3600 members).
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Harley did the same thing once their popularity skyrocketed so they could make money off the name. That's when the Harley bath towels hit the dealer shelves.
good thing Guzzi doesn't have any dealerships lol
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The footer text is new, it was not there in November. They likely added it in response to what has been requested by Piaggio lawyers.
https://web.archive.org/web/20221128222651/https://hmb-guzzi.de/
I see it now on guzzi-forum.de , and the mention on GuzziTech forums.
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This is the reason why it's almost impossible to find decent wall art t-shirts etc that say Moto Guzzi.
It's also the reason why no one knows what the hell you're talking about when you say Moto Guzzi....
I'm a huge fan of the open source approach to the market as opposed to the closed.
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Royal Enfield went through nonsense like this with their present "Interceptor 650" models, one of which I own. 50-60 years ago RE had a model called the Interceptor. When the parent company in UK folded, the name was picked up by Honda for their so-named V-4 models in the 1980s. Honda apparently copyrighted the model name in the USA, only.
When RE came out with their Interceptor in 2019, Honda's well-oiled USA legal machine pounced on them and enjoined them from calling the model in the USA the "Interceptor 650". So, the hapless RE folks re-badged it the "INT-650". What an "INT" is escapes me, but apparently Honda was satisfied.
I disliked this nonsensical moniker on my bike's side covers so I sourced a pair of perfectly-copied non-USA "Interceptor 650" decals from Sticker_Dude in Australia. They fit right over the INT decals and the side covers. I hope Honda lawyers do not peruse the WGC board.
Ralph
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We can always resort to the Alabama pronunciation: Goooozie. THAT will please the purists. :evil:
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The footer text is new, it was not there in November. They likely added it in response to what has been requested by Piaggio lawyers.
https://web.archive.org/web/20221128222651/https://hmb-guzzi.de/
I see it now on guzzi-forum.de , and the mention on GuzziTech forums.
Ahh okay, I decided to post this on other forums too (GuzzTech, Grisoghetto and V11Lemans) as a warning but also to make people think ...
is this really my brand anymore?
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We had "Vespa St Louis" - they sold everything Piaggio, Vespa, Aprilla, Moto Guzzi. Well, ten years ago.
The St Louis dealer was done very well - It looked sorta like a Honda Powersports store or Harley dealer.
I thought it was the new business model, at the time, but I haven't seen one of these since this one folded.
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I’m pretty sure this is why MG Cycle was MG Cycle from the first, instead of Moto Guzzi Cycle. Right from the beginning, they had a disclaimer of any association with Guzzi on their web page.
Regarding the name Interceptor, we shouldn’t forget that the 850 T was called that name when it was first introduced. Very quickly the “Interceptor” was dropped from the name. I wouldn’t be surprised if Honda was responsible way back then.
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We can always resort to the Alabama pronunciation: Goooozie. THAT will please the purists. :evil:
WTH?
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Yeah, they do that on purpose..let’s the mother ship own and control where when and how Moto Guzzi created content is displayed and used.
Here’s an example. Instead of great tshirts for all models, it’s a T-shirt of a grossly inappropriate naked figure w “Moto Guzzi “ emblazoned across the top…Who is to say whether it’s an appropriate use except the original creator?
What would you being thinking if someone stole and copied the exact specifications of the V100, built them and sold them? It’s exactly the same case for logos artworks and photographs as engine design…
If you create it, you own the right to copy. That “copy right” is only transferable by written agreement.
In this day and age, tho, those rules are generally getting trampled. Every once in awhile the lawyers come out to reign it in
I agree Guzzi friendly shops should be allowed to use such things, but it needs to be specifically outlined by written agreements
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Did you know that the Piaggio Group is currently forcing forum and website owners and professional stores to remove the word Guzzi from their names?
This is currently happening in Germany. Latest victim HMB Guzzi.
This is done by lawyers hired by the Piaggio Group.
I got an e-mail from them today, now "HMB Moto". What silliness, particularly given corporate's lack of support for legacy bikes.
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I’m pretty sure this is why MG Cycle was MG Cycle from the first, instead of Moto Guzzi Cycle. Right from the beginning, they had a disclaimer of any association with Guzzi on their web page.
Regarding the name Interceptor, we shouldn’t forget that the 850 T was called that name when it was first introduced. Very quickly the “Interceptor” was dropped from the name. I wouldn’t be surprised if Honda was responsible way back then.
IIRC, the "MG" in MG Cycle is from the first letter of Rick's last name and the first letter of Gordon's first name.
Honda had nothing named "Interceptor" until '83, so doubtful that they had anything to do with Guzzi dropping the name. Possibly Royal Enfield instead?
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IIRC, the "MG" in MG Cycle is from the first letter of Rick's last name and the first letter of Gordon's first name.
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/Smileys/default/bow.gif
That turned out rather creative it would seem.
FWIW, trademark type lawyers told me once upon a long time ago, that the parent company can beef about Moto Guzzi or Guzzi alone being used in a name, website, etc. Moto by itself however, they can't. Moto is not really trademarkable, as it only means "Motorcycle" in Italian. Therefore, Moto Guzzi, Moto Ducati, Moto Laverda, Moto Parilla etc. Possibly the folks in Germany got similar info, therefore that change. Also, was advised that disclaimers of association are worthless in such matters.
At the end of the day, think "Super Bowl" vs "The Big Game". Licensing $$$$$.
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I recall that MG Cycle had to revise their name after receiving a letter from Moto Guzzi lawyers when they first started the business.
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Yeah, they do that on purpose..let’s the mother ship own and control where when and how Moto Guzzi created content is displayed and used.
Here’s an example. Instead of great tshirts for all models, it’s a T-shirt of a grossly inappropriate naked figure w “Moto Guzzi “ emblazoned across the top…Who is to say whether it’s an appropriate use except the original creator?
What would you being thinking if someone stole and copied the exact specifications of the V100, built them and sold them? It’s exactly the same case for logos artworks and photographs as engine design…
If you create it, you own the right to copy. That “copy right” is only transferable by written agreement.
In this day and age, tho, those rules are generally getting trampled. Every once in awhile the lawyers come out to reign it in
I agree Guzzi friendly shops should be allowed to use such things, but it needs to be specifically outlined by written agreements
Spent 18 days in Italy. THOUSANDS of Ferrari, Ducati, Maserati T shirts all over the country, from Rome to a podunk T shirt shop on the Amalfi Coast. NOT ONE Guzzi shirt. Why? Guzzi licensing. To their own demise IMNSHO
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Spent 18 days in Italy. THOUSANDS of Ferrari, Ducati, Maserati T shirts all over the country, from Rome to a podunk T shirt shop on the Amalfi Coast. NOT ONE Guzzi shirt. Why? Guzzi licensing. To their own demise IMNSHO
Do you know for sure it’s licensing that’s the issue there? Seems to me on the surface that folks there (and everywhere more or less) are attracted to the FAAAAASSSSTT Italian brands.
So maybe it’s as much brand marketing as it is licensing.
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I recall that MG Cycle had to revise their name after receiving a letter from Moto Guzzi lawyers when they first started the business.
Sorry Tkelly, that never happened.
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One of the administrators of the German Guzzi forum wrote:
The German language forum that I am involved in got hit too. We got a lawyer involved, and made the point that the forum is not commercial, and that using a trade name for non-commercial purposes is not illegal in Germany. €2.000 later, things have gone quiet, and we are assuming we are back off the radar. Mike at HMB is, however, commercial, but has no official connection to Moto Guzzi. He chose to take the route of least resistance, and change his domain name.
There is another place, run by Martin Hageman, that is specialised in the "small block" Guzzis. Good bloke, good service, and well stocked with parts. His business name is "Guzzi e piu" (Guzzi and more). I noticed today that he seems to be changing his web adresses to "gpiu.de", where it has always been "Guzziepiu.de". Maybe he has been targetted too.
There is a lawyers practice that has been contracted by Piaggio to search out instances of "Guzzi" on the interweb, contact them, and issue "cease and desist" demands. They first contacted the service provider for the above-mentioned forum, and then the chief admin of the forum whose name is on the bottom line of the forum. I gather Mike at HMB was contacted by the same bunch of lawyers.
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Interesting move that's probably not going to fly very good in America. Most dealers have the brands they carry in their names as product identifiers. Just in my neck of the woods, there is Harper Moto Guzzi, Heritage Indian, Heritage Triumph, Pig Trail Harley Davidson, Sunrise Honda, Yamaha of Harrison, and dozens more alike.
And since the word Guzzi is actually a surname of actual people, they'll get a lot of court appearances with this if they push too hard. Imagine having the last name of Guzzi while owning a liquor store and calling it "Guzzi Liquor", or a sign outside your business and having this little company coming along telling you to remove it. Heck, I have a "Moto Guzzi PKWY" sign at the end of my driveway. Come and take it :evil:. I think they're picking the wrong battle here. They should be focusing on quality assurance, customer service, increased dealerships, competitors and inflation to keep their little products alive a little longer rather than fighting those who advertise for them, completely free. Or even better, focus on building a reliable 1800cc liquid cooled touring-bagger loaded with tons of tech :wink:.
Hey, if any of you all want to put the name of my computer business outside your business, t-shirt or website, feel free...and thanks!
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I kind of like Guzzi Escort service!
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Do you know for sure it’s licensing that’s the issue there? Seems to me on the surface that folks there (and everywhere more or less) are attracted to the FAAAAASSSSTT Italian brands.
So maybe it’s as much brand marketing as it is licensing.
Only what the people running the stores told me when I asked, particularly the shops that seemed to focus on motorsports.
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I really dont know about the other Piaggio brands, but in Guzzi's case, I think the money spent on lawers might be better served introducing the general public to the Moto Guzzi brand. You know... maybe open a dealer or two.. maybe sell a hat or Tshirt to the loyal.. You know.. use the brand you are copywriting. I mean really though. The company is doing a good job with product. They have built up a nice line in the last 5 years or so.. And they do have some good dealers in the US.. but we have all heard about how bad the company support is for them. We all know that NO ONE in the US knows who we are. Just sad to see them go after the small loyal shops that keep/kept the brand alive in the lean times for us.
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From Piagio's perspective those shops are off side .It's ridiculous but that's often how big corporations work.Un able to see the bigger picture, unable to see the struggles of small business and help them.
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Interesting move that's probably not going to fly very good in America. Most dealers have the brands they carry in their names as product identifiers. Just in my neck of the woods, there is Harper Moto Guzzi, Heritage Indian, Heritage Triumph, Pig Trail Harley Davidson, Sunrise Honda, Yamaha of Harrison, and dozens more alike.
And since the word Guzzi is actually a surname of actual people, they'll get a lot of court appearances with this if they push too hard. Imagine having the last name of Guzzi while owning a liquor store and calling it "Guzzi Liquor", or a sign outside your business and having this little company coming along telling you to remove it. Heck, I have a "Moto Guzzi PKWY" sign at the end of my driveway. Come and take it :evil:. I think they're picking the wrong battle here. They should be focusing on quality assurance, customer service, increased dealerships, competitors and inflation to keep their little products alive a little longer rather than fighting those who advertise for them, completely free. Or even better, focus on building a reliable 1800cc liquid cooled touring-bagger loaded with tons of tech :wink:.
Hey, if any of you all want to put the name of my computer business outside your business, t-shirt or website, feel free...and thanks!
Perhaps you're familiar with the tale of a certain Mr. Nissan who had a small computer business pre-dating the internet.
https://jalopnik.com/uzi-nissan-spent-8-years-fighting-the-car-company-with-1822815832 (https://jalopnik.com/uzi-nissan-spent-8-years-fighting-the-car-company-with-1822815832)
As I recall, the issue was only over the domain name, and not his business name.
I'm no copyright lawyer, but I'm pretty sure "Guzzi Liquor" would fly since it's totally unrelated to the motorcycle industry - as long as said business didn't trade on motorcycle imagery.
On the other hand, If I were a machinist named Joe Guzzi who made aftermarket parts in my garage for Harleys, "Guzzi Hog Accessories" would probably be shot down in short order - unless I (and my forebears) had been in business prior to "Guzzi" the motorcycle brand being registered in the US.
In which case Harley would be suing me already over the word "Hog" :rolleyes:
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When I lived in a then small town in Colorado we had a local restaurant, watering hole called the Ponderosa Steak House. It had been in existence for many years. A chain of restaurants started up with the same name. One day lawyers showed up with a cease and desist order. The owner said no, I was first. It wound up in court. The chain had to pay a bunch to use the name and for the local business to change it's name. I guess my local Tshirt guy technically could be in trouble for making Moto Guzzi T-shirts for me but isn't offering for sale to the general public so he is good. How many would he sell anyway?
kk
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I'm late to the party:
That sounds incredibly stupid on the part of Piaggio. sounds like the Piaggio lawyers had a bit tooooo much vino at lunch!
If I had a domain name or a business with the word guzzi in it, I would good humorly change it to Guzzzi or Guzi or Guz_i or Gussie....
I think in solidarity with the victims of this stupidity, hereafter, the word guzzi should be banned and replaced with _______?
Let the suggestions begin!
I'll start:
1. "Gussie"
2. "I can't say that word!"
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Royal Enfield went through nonsense like this with their present "Interceptor 650" models, one of which I own. 50-60 years ago RE had a model called the Interceptor. When the parent company in UK folded, the name was picked up by Honda for their so-named V-4 models in the 1980s. Honda apparently copyrighted the model name in the USA, only.
When RE came out with their Interceptor in 2019, Honda's well-oiled USA legal machine pounced on them and enjoined them from calling the model in the USA the "Interceptor 650". So, the hapless RE folks re-badged it the "INT-650". What an "INT" is escapes me, but apparently Honda was satisfied.
I disliked this nonsensical moniker on my bike's side covers so I sourced a pair of perfectly-copied non-USA "Interceptor 650" decals from Sticker_Dude in Australia. They fit right over the INT decals and the side covers. I hope Honda lawyers do not peruse the WGC board.
Ralph
I like that level of creativity!
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Harley did the same thing 30 years ago when sales were not great they sued a guy who did a hog farm rally and the sign said Harley Davidson only.
The court decision said Harley owned H.O.G. not HOG the club that staged the rally changed the name Hawg to avoid copy wright problems. Harley sued again because they were associating the Harley Davidson name with a "Hawg" which is a dirty filthy animal and it was damaging there brand. So it became an "All Makes" welcome rally.
I understand they want to get paid for the use of there logo and control branding to maintain a positive image. Moto Guzzi does not have many loyal followers and they may want to rethink upsetting the status quo as long as those organizations are acting within standards and projecting a positive brand image.
Being a Triumph guy since the 1980's I always wore a T-shirt with the Triumph Logo (The classic one) John Bloor had directed the new logo was controlled and the vintage logo was free to use. Well Triumph Motorcycles LTD now has sent cease and desist letters to various vendors telling them not to use the vintage logo unless they want to pay Triumph Motorcycles LTD for the privilege.
So Triumph Motorcycles LTD. can Kiss my A** I am not paying them $50.00+ for the privilege of advertising there brand when we (The vintage guys) kept there name alive. I would sooner buy a Harley than a new Triumph.
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Next victim:
https://www.facebook.com/radicalspeedshop
Some years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7q3mhc2Ogw
Regarding Triumph ... https://de.triumph.com/ :thumb:
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I bet Stephan is not quite the happy chappy he was back then...
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Even dumber considering they don't even service the legacy bikes. These guys think they're Harley?
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The official Guzzi dealers have no problem, but some shops with Guzzi in their name who do sell parts or work on Guzzi's have to change their name. It looks like if there is anything commercial found they won't allow it. But I'm not sure. I got the layer letter too, because I have a domainname and website with Guzzi in the name. But i'm just a private person offering nothing, only Guzzi affection. The website is there for 15 or 20 years.
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No one in China cares, the manifacture of low price, low quality items with the MG logo and name will go on regardless. Good luck Piaggio.
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BMW did the same with the Skylands BMW Club last year. BMW gave the club grief about the name and using the BMW logo. Wound up with a patch that doesn't include the Roundrel and the name was changed - partly due to merging w/ another club - to Skylands Sport Touring MC Club.
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many years ago, when i was active in our local bmw club, we dealt with this issue of the edict from bmw corporate and changed our logo.
about this time, i had a friend with an independent motorcycle repair shop who got a cease and desist letter from yamaha, no using the tuning fork or their name. it turns out a competing yamaha dealer narced him out to yamaha corportate. enforcement seems to be very selective.
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I wonder if we have to change our log in names on forums? Are they coming after us?
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so then this is something they may not like? https://ibb.co/5sTb4w2
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so then this is something they may not like? https://ibb.co/5sTb4w2
No, they will NOT like that at all. You should immediately send me all your bottles for hiding - plausible deniability and all that...
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Interesting move that's probably not going to fly very good in America. Most dealers have the brands they carry in their names as product identifiers. Just in my neck of the woods, there is Harper Moto Guzzi, Heritage Indian, Heritage Triumph, Pig Trail Harley Davidson, Sunrise Honda, Yamaha of Harrison, and dozens more alike.
And since the word Guzzi is actually a surname of actual people, they'll get a lot of court appearances with this if they push too hard. Imagine having the last name of Guzzi while owning a liquor store and calling it "Guzzi Liquor", or a sign outside your business and having this little company coming along telling you to remove it. Heck, I have a "Moto Guzzi PKWY" sign at the end of my driveway. Come and take it :evil:. I think they're picking the wrong battle here. They should be focusing on quality assurance, customer service, increased dealerships, competitors and inflation to keep their little products alive a little longer rather than fighting those who advertise for them, completely free. Or even better, focus on building a reliable 1800cc liquid cooled touring-bagger loaded with tons of tech :wink:.
Hey, if any of you all want to put the name of my computer business outside your business, t-shirt or website, feel free...and thanks!
My brother is buried at a military cemetery and a row behind him there is Guzzi buried. I’ll get a picture next summer. More proof it’s a surname here
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Rather obliquely-related to the behavior of Piaggio calling forth the dogs of copyright lawyerdom, but I never will forget Soichiro Honda's response in the late 1970s to the proposed USA emissions rules 5 years hence:
"When new emissions restrictions are proposed, Detroit hires more lawyers; Honda hires more engineers"
Prior to his statement, Mr. Honda ordered his purchasing people to buy a new Chevrolet "crate" engine and had his engineers modify it for emissions reduction. The engine easily passed the emissions laws proposed for 5 years forward.
Piaggio, legal action is not the problem you say it is. Make a better product; give better support to your dealers and customers.
Ralph
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It is a surname here in USA, there's Guzzi Pizza in TX. I seen pic's of it.
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Paolo Guzzi, (born 1940), Italian poet and critic.
Paul Guzzi (born 1942), American businessman and former Massachusetts Secretary of the Commonwealth.
About 1000 people with the surname Guzzi in US Census.
Search for Guzzi on Facebook/People and find about 95 folks with the surname.
In Austria, Guzzi is a diminutive for Gustav. Look up the Nazi-era ski racer Guzzi Lantschner.
For whatever that's worth.
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While I don’t see any reason to backtrack on that last comment I shared, I did just read more into the case of “nominative trademark usage”, with fan clubs specifically mentioned. While I’m certainly no lawyer, it seems that fan clubs have a leg to stand on under fair / nominative usage when it comes to not only in name or description of the club or site, but also in the online domain name , so long as the domain name isn’t already trademarked, and it’s clear that the club/fan site is not advertising as though they’re the licensor of the trademark—a common example includes using the “Rolling Stones” within the name of the fan club, but avoiding attempts at making a significant profit off the trademark name in a fashion that makes it appear that the site/club has trademark /copyright allowance (like trying to sell Rolling Stones t-shirts). Extra beneficial if the trademark usage is done in a positive fashion, where the trademark owner can’t argue over defamation or negative impact of profits.
I’m curious now over the legality differences across different countries/regions.
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Next victim:
https://www.facebook.com/radicalspeedshop
Not going to lie. I have been noticing some of this going on - especially this example, and HMB - and assuming 'sh1t, Guzzi sales are dying, they're diversifying away from the brand'.
OK, maybe dumb, but I doubt I'm alone.
So, NICE WORK PIAGGIO.
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Harley did the same thing once their popularity skyrocketed so they could make money off the name. That's when the Harley bath towels hit the dealer shelves.
Can you still get Harley branded toilet paper…? :wink: :popcorn:
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You can, but i hear it works about as well as using wax paper :laugh:!
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I’m reviving this thread…
Supreme Court heard a case yesterday…
Jack Daniel’s sues dog chew toy manufacturer over close imitation of JD whiskey bottle
Trademark law protects intellectual property, so says one side of the argument…
But parody is a part of free speech too
In this case, the chew toy company is making money by piggy backing onto the visibility popularity of Jack Daniel’s and others
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Doesn’t sound like parody. Parody’s part of fair use, and often comes with it a thoughtful commentary or jab, but that’s certainly subjective. This just seems like one specific mass manufacturer capitalizing off another.
Ugh, Art. To this day I don’t know whether I’d kiss Marcel Duchamp or strangle him.
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Duchamp inspired “art”… :popcorn:
(https://i.ibb.co/K5jKLS7/83-E38-EEE-6229-411-A-ACC9-4-B7-A0415147-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K5jKLS7)
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Stephen was quite complementary about Guzzi in his video but I bet that has changed now.
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Personally I'm relieved that the lawyers are finally reigning in this massive over exposure of the brand.
Heard last summer: "Nice vintage bike! So when did Motor Guzy go out of business?"