936-8V / 936 Bellagio with V7 Racer look / What is Guzzi waiting for ??

[Murray]

I'm wondering, if the California 1400 turns out to be a sales success, would Moto Guzzi be inclined to bring the Bellagio to the US?  It would be an easy follow-up, until more new models are ready.

As far as I know the Bellagio is no longer in production simplification of production and all that, the cali 1400 is simply a variation of the current 4 valve motor, the Bellagio supposedly was used to soak up some left over parts.

[gooseontheloose]

Beautiful job. Personally I would lose the number 1, but that's being picky.

http://racingcafe.blogspot.it/2013/07/moto-guzzi-bellagio-936-cr-by-italo.html

[rocker59]

Lots of people would get all hot and bothered if something like this was offered by the factory.

[Jason Muelver]

Man.

Always thought the Bellagio would be great in the US. This would be outstanding.

[bad Chad]

Lots of people would get all hot and bothered if something like this was offered by the factory.

Yea, but I still wonder what "lots" really adds up to?   What I am about to say is pure guess work, my numbers may be way out of whack.   

Say there are 5000 guys in North America who would pee their birches over this thing.  Of those 5000, only 2000 may have the resources to buy one new.  Of the 2000, maybe 500 might actually pull the trigger.   And I'm really not so sure 500 would pop.   I have talked with a well respected Guzzi dealer here in IL, who has told me that before each new model gets here, he gets many, many folks telling him that they are going to buy it, ex Norge, Stelvio, v7 Classic, yet when the bikes hit the floor, most find a reason not to buy.   And I get that, that is the nature of sales, but I wonder if Guzzi where to bring over a Cafe Belligo, would it really sell to many more than the true, and few hardcore enthusiast?   I hope so, and I hope they do!

[Kev m]

Chad, FWIW people made the same arguments against the success of the V7 line.

[rocker59]

Yea, but I still wonder what "lots" really adds up to?   What I am about to say is pure guess work, my numbers may be way out of whack.   

Say there are 5000 guys in North America who would pee their birches over this thing.  Of those 5000, only 2000 may have the resources to buy one new.  Of the 2000, maybe 500 might actually pull the trigger.   And I'm really not so sure 500 would pop.   I have talked with a well respected Guzzi dealer here in IL, who has told me that before each new model gets here, he gets many, many folks telling him that they are going to buy it, ex Norge, Stelvio, v7 Classic, yet when the bikes hit the floor, most find a reason not to buy.   And I get that, that is the nature of sales, but I wonder if Guzzi where to bring over a Cafe Belligo, would it really sell to many more than the true, and few hardcore enthusiast?   I hope so, and I hope they do!

Having spent lots of time in sales, I will concur, "that is the nature of sales".  If you can make a few sales out of every 100 contacts, then you are doing well.

I've said it before, but a few hundred units for Guzzi is a successful year for any given model, considering worldwide production is a four digit deal.

Chad, FWIW people made the same arguments against the success of the V7 line.

Yes, and the V7 line has become Guzzi's best seller. 

[Kev m]

Honestly a 940cc "Big Block" V7-esque roadster might be just the ticket to get me to add a big block back to the garage even before a Cali 1400.

[bad Chad]

I thought the new dual colored v7s would be big sellers in the line, but in appears to me that the Stone and the Racer are the ones jumping off the sales floor?

[rocker59]

I thought the new dual colored v7s would be big sellers in the line, but in appears to me that the Stone and the Racer are the ones jumping off the sales floor?

Sorta like the red V7C last year, there probably aren't many of the two-tone bikes out there.  Personally, I think the two-tone tanks don't look quite right. 

[Kev m]

Well the Racer and Stone were available before the Special.

[bad Chad]

That's all true.  My local dealer has had two, and yellow/black, and a white/red for a couple months now, unless they recently sold.

[rocker59]

With the classic S3 and LMI paint schemes that would look good on the V7C tank, I have no idea why they chose the horizontal break that cuts across the tank's creases like it does.  

[rocker59]

Slightly retro bikes , they seem to appeal to a younger generation of riders , not sure that a more expensive hot rod  will appeal to that same demographic
when a modern 600 will probably outperform it . Just a thought .
Dusty

The V7 line has been drawing riders from both ends of the age spectrum.  I see lots of 50+ riders on the V7s.  I also see a few college kids on them, and I got lots of interest from teens and 20-somethings when I had a V7C last summer.

[ohiorider]

Even the displacement sounds cool ....... I ride a 936 ..................  ;-T

Beautiful bike!

I have always been pleased with the performance of the 2v 1151 engine that powers my 1200 Sport.  I think (can only think since we don't have this engine here) that the short stroke version would be a really unusual ride.  The 1151 revs up without a complaint ...... would have to believe the short stroke version would be really willing to rev.

[rocker59]

If I was Guzzi marketing, I'd call it a "950 LeMans"

 ~;

[Kev m]

Man, I'm so tired of arguing with the naysayers...

"The V7 isn't going to sell, it doesn't have enough power"

"The Cali 1400 is too big and can't handle"

  ::)

[Murray]

Lets all completely ignore that the engine is out of production and not common with any other models shall we?

[ohiorider]

Lets all completely ignore that the engine is out of production and not common with any other models shall we?

True, true.  Then perhaps we should be dreaming about a 936 based on a short stroke 8v engine.  Or, lets just make it simple .... build this bike with an 1151cc Griso 8v engine.  I could certainly live with that.  That engine I know, from personal ownership, will wind up like a banshee!

[oldbike54]

Lets all completely ignore that the engine is out of production and not common with any other models shall we?

Finally a request for something we are good at . ;D ???
Dusty

[Kev m]

Kev M , weren't you one of the people who said the 1400 was too heavy ? ;D I think most of us are just expressing our thoughts , pretty sure Piaggio ain't listening , besides , there are market place realities that have nothing to do with our dream list .
Dusty

I lamented the fact that it was heavier than I preferred - but I ALSO PREDICTED IT WOULD HANDLE GREAT ANYWAY.

I dunno whether or not they're listening but my Stone looks STRIKINGLY LIKE MY JACKAL DID WHEN I WAS DONE WITH IT - doesn't it?

Lets all completely ignore that the engine is out of production and not common with any other models shall we?

Pishaw - the motor was a short-stroke version of the then current production big-block. There's NO REASON they couldn't do another short-stroke version of a current production motor, say the 8V 1200 and come up with something just as (or is it more) awesome!

[rocker59]

Lets all completely ignore that the engine is out of production and not common with any other models shall we?

940 8V, anyone?

I say, "oh, hell yeah!"

Take a 1200 8V.  Stick the Bellagio's short stroke crank inside, and "hold on Hanna!"

 :bike

[rocker59]

Pishaw - the motor was a short-stroke version of the then current production big-block. There's NO REASON they couldn't do another short-stroke version of a current production motor, say the 8V 1200 and come up with something just as (or is it more) awesome!

Yep.  In simple terms, an 850 crank with 1200 top end makes a 940 Bellagio.  (The 850 used an 1100 top end).

[Steph]

I like it !

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=02CCPEEklf0

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=c4-feed-u&v=jxBKsHvO0LU

[mickyvee]

 ??? Sadly, a 1200 8V engined V7 style bike seems to be beyond Moto Guzzis' capabilities. Lots of people want such a machine, so why don't they build one? It's a mystery!

[Vasco DG]

Because thankfully someone at Piaggio realises that the future of Moto Guzzi doesn't lie in endlessly replicating the past or trying to cram comparatively powerful new power plants into inadequate frames with inferior drive lines behind them.

The fact that one or two barmy corn cob pipeists with red suspenders want to waste their time building Junkers like this does NOT make it a marketable proposition.

Pete

[Kev m]

Because thankfully someone at Piaggio realises that the future of Moto Guzzi doesn't lie in endlessly replicating the past or trying to cram comparatively powerful new power plants into inadequate frames with inferior drive lines behind them.

The fact that one or two barmy corn cob pipeists with red suspenders want to waste their time building Junkers like this does NOT make it a marketable proposition.

Pete

Perhaps or perhaps not.

But the retro/classic market remains the lion's share in the US and there's not doubt that their sales here have benefitted significantly from it this past year or so. I would think that, if easy enough to do, they could continue to garner favorable press and increased sales in THAT segment. It doesn't mean they have to ignore the other segments.

[Andrew Thomas Evans]

But the retro/classic market remains the lion's share in the US and there's not doubt that their sales here have benefitted significantly from it this past year or so. I would think that, if easy enough to do, they could continue to garner favorable press and increased sales in THAT segment. It doesn't mean they have to ignore the other segments.

I'd go into what I think they should do, but then it's lunch time and I don't really care enough to type that much.

In short, they need to do what's been working, and pay attention to what's been working. For them that's the throwback V7 bikes, which (although not my cup of tea) are cute, tickle peoples way back when bones, and seem to be selling. Plus I feel they have the loud and power and more sport market covered with the Cali and Griso.

Also, any press is good press. I've been seeing all kinds of Guzzi's in Bike Exif lately and although I'm sure they aren't what some of more senior members would approve of, they get the brand out there to some who may or may not have seen it before and get the attention going.


But it's just something fun to talk about, don't have money for a new bike and not sure if I'd get a new Guzzi anyway.

[Steph]

It's not about replicating, it's about executing something desirable.
Technology wise, there isn't much difference between the Breva 750, Nevada 750 and the V7 stone.
Most wouldn't be caught dead on two of those.

[190 Octane]

Technology wise, there isn't much difference between the Breva 750, Nevada 750 and the V7 stone.
Most wouldn't be caught dead on two of those.

This is the same thing I was thinking.  If the retro styling ques weren't selling they would still be making 750 Brevas.

On the other hand the V7 line up competes directly with Sportsters and Bonnevilles.  I'd love to see a retro looking 8V, but I can't think of anything current to compare it against.  Maybe the retro style Ducati's or CB1100's.  I still think they could take the Bellagio and dress it like the current V7's and have something.