Author Topic: Looking for information on the new California's  (Read 33133 times)

Offline youcanrunnaked

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2015, 07:52:13 AM »
I am partial to this one:



To me, this is exactly what a modern interpretation of a classic Moto Guzzi should look like.  (Well, this and the V7.)  It stirs me the same way the Road King (there, I said it!) appeals to me as what a modern interpretation of a classic Harley-Davidson should look like.   
"The transverse vibration is a great sensation -- hey, I think I just wrote a song!"
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Offline mjptexas

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2015, 07:53:46 AM »
Here's my Cali 1400 Custom at the halfway point of a 1,400 mile round trip ride to Big Bend:



Owned it for 14 months, just shy of 10,000 miles, ZERO problems.

Plus side:
- Fast
- Smooth
- Comfortable.  The stock seat is perfect for me.
- No 700 lb bike has any business handling this well
- Traction control/ABS - both have saved my hide more than once
- Electronic cruise control - don't tour without it.
- Did I say fast?

Minus side:
- Gas mileage - Below 70 mph you can get 40+ mpg.  Above 70 mph and definitely above 75 mph you be lucky to get 35 mpg.  Stop and go around town - don't ask.
- Tires - at 10,000 miles I've nearly worn out my second rear Dunlop.  I'll try something different next time, but unfortunately your choices are limited.
- It is a 700 lb bike, although you only notice it when you have to push it.  Above 5 mph no issue.
Mike

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2015, 08:31:28 AM »
I am partial to this one:



To me, this is exactly what a modern interpretation of a classic Moto Guzzi should look like.  (Well, this and the V7.)  It stirs me the same way the Road King (there, I said it!) appeals to me as what a modern interpretation of a classic Harley-Davidson should look like.   

ME TOO!

Though I'd want the round headlight, cast wheels, and other blackness of the Audace.
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Offline Jerryd

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2015, 08:59:28 AM »
I am partial to this one:



To me, this is exactly what a modern interpretation of a classic Moto Guzzi should look like.  (Well, this and the V7.)  It stirs me the same way the Road King (there, I said it!) appeals to me as what a modern interpretation of a classic Harley-Davidson should look like.   

Yeah, real nice! I wonder if you could modify this with the "Touring" model components? Hard bags, windshield, etc.
Jerry
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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2015, 08:59:28 AM »

Online Kev m

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2015, 09:01:34 AM »
Yeah, real nice! I wonder if you could modify this with the "Touring" model components? Hard bags, windshield, etc.

I would expect you could, though I really don't like the shape of the Touring model bags anymore than I like the rear fender.

I think personally I would go with HB C-Bows and one of their partial leather/synthetic bags, but I could do the windshield from the Touring model!
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Offline rboe

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #65 on: March 17, 2015, 09:04:26 AM »
Which one uses the best oil?  ::)
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Offline youcanrunnaked

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2015, 09:21:19 AM »
I prefer the spoke wheels of the new Eldo (although I wish they were tubeless), and I am getting used to the headlight (it contrasts with the retro style, but in an interesting way, IMO).

I would want the new Eldorado with hard black pebble-grain Hepco-Becker Junior luggage (40 L side cases and a 45L or 50 L top case) as on my EV, and the ability to switch among plexi touring and sport windshields, or no windshield, also as on my EV.  Maybe also add a light bar with twin spots up front.

If anyone here can Photoshop those accessories onto a picture of that red, black and chrome Eldorado, I would be most appreciative.
"The transverse vibration is a great sensation -- hey, I think I just wrote a song!"
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Offline mtiberio

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2015, 09:42:19 AM »
I am partial to this one:

To me, this is exactly what a modern interpretation of a classic Moto Guzzi should look like.  (Well, this and the V7.)  It stirs me the same way the Road King (there, I said it!) appeals to me as what a modern interpretation of a classic Harley-Davidson should look like.   

Can't say I agree with much you say Kev, but I agree with you on this point. I would love a Eldo/Audace mashup...

and as far as the original poster goes, I'd assume at this point he has run off screaming holding his ears...
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2015, 09:45:28 AM »

Thread posted:  on: March 15, 2015, 10:01:31 PM »

Last Active:  March 15, 2015, 10:01:31 PM


So, he hasn't logged in since posting.

I'm sure he will be thoroughly entertained, when he does.

 :BEER:
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 09:46:59 AM by rocker59 »
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Offline youcanrunnaked

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2015, 09:50:04 AM »
If the OP is familiar with the typical attitudes of the H-D faithful ("Harleys rule!"  "Get a REAL  bike!"), he might be shocked by this discussion.   ;D 
"The transverse vibration is a great sensation -- hey, I think I just wrote a song!"
-- Billy Joel, Motorcyclist, 02/2012

"If Moto Guzzi were any more of a cult, you'd need a chicken."
--- Dan Neil, The Wall Street Journal, 04/19/2013

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2015, 09:51:57 AM »
Thread posted:  on: March 15, 2015, 10:01:31 PM »

Last Active:  March 15, 2015, 10:01:31 PM


So, he hasn't logged in since posting.

I'm sure he will be thoroughly entertained, when he does.

 :BEER:

 Or so completely confused he will sell his Harley and buy a minivan  ::) :D

  Dusty

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2015, 10:10:53 AM »
YouC - I'd offer to try the shop, but I'm just not that good with the software yet.

Can't say I agree with much you say Kev,

Fair enough. I suspect the reason for that is simply our different perspectives.

I know we've never ridden together, but given your background I suspect you're a much better and probably much faster rider than I am.

I'd like to think I'm better than average and I've surprised a number of people, but I don't fool myself into thinking I'm actually fast.

As I've said before, most of these bikes are more capable than I AM, so subtle differences at 9/10 or 10/10s are meaningless TO ME.

And I suspect the majority of the riding public is even slower ergo meaningless to them too.

Now a bunch of YOU GUYS might be faster, that's fine, so it means something to you.

Make sense?
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Offline segesta

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2015, 10:44:42 AM »
Aside on the new Eldorado photo above: Who makes whitewall tires in the California's sizes? I think there was a thread on this here, or at the forumcircle discussion, but it was not resolved.
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Offline mtiberio

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2015, 11:52:46 AM »
I think the Eldo above uses 180x16 tires, better selection. the regular 1400 uses 200 x 16's few to choose from...
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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #74 on: March 17, 2015, 07:48:12 PM »
Just wanted to revisit the comments related to the traction control. I had virtually no experience or idea what it was all about until  I purchased the custom. It has three levels of intervention you can choose from. It had been set on level two from the dealer so I left there and kind of forgot about it. I never noticed it at all and had ridden many dirt roads and wet roads, and solo I had pushed it pretty hard. Then after becoming versed in how to scroll through the functions one day I shut it off and went for a ride. The first shotgun start with a little sand on the pavement the rear lit right up. And on wet, look out, in sport mode you will be in trouble pretty easy. I never even realized that it had been working the whole time before. I am glad it was on when I did a trip to Nova Scotia with my daughter on back, a lot of wet and dirt and I now know what a terrific safety feature it really is. You can hammer on it pulling out into traffic and not worry about anything getting squirrely on you. It is probably what I like best about that bike, as it is almost always on two up duty. On level one you can have a little fun on the dirt until it lets you  know it's there, on level three it wont let you fool around at all. Personally I don't think I would consider a two up bike that didn't have it, now that I know what I know. So in short, I am still discovering the real life benefits of these new features. Hats off to piaggio engineers.

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Re:
« Reply #75 on: March 17, 2015, 09:32:30 PM »
Interesting. I'm a little surprised it was so willing to step out, but great report on how it has worked.
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Offline Jerryd

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #76 on: March 18, 2015, 07:16:28 AM »
I prefer the spoke wheels of the new Eldo (although I wish they were tubeless), and I am getting used to the headlight (it contrasts with the retro style, but in an interesting way, IMO).

I would want the new Eldorado with hard black pebble-grain Hepco-Becker Junior luggage (40 L side cases and a 45L or 50 L top case) as on my EV, and the ability to switch among plexi touring and sport windshields, or no windshield, also as on my EV.  Maybe also add a light bar with twin spots up front.

If anyone here can Photoshop those accessories onto a picture of that red, black and chrome Eldorado, I would be most appreciative.

According to the brochure I picked up at Bike Week, they are tubeless wheels. Maybe like my '98 EV?  I'm going to check with our new dealer here. They have a couple of 1400's in stock.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 07:17:32 AM by Jerryd »
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Offline youcanrunnaked

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #77 on: March 18, 2015, 07:46:49 AM »
The photographs do not show an outer flange on the rims for the spokes to attach, as on the Tonti Californias with tubeless spoke wheels.  If the spoke wheels being shown on the new Eldo are tubeless, they would have to seal the spoke holes in the rims against air leakage, as with the Alpina wheels on the current Griso.  It would be nice if that were so, but I am not so sure that's the case.
"The transverse vibration is a great sensation -- hey, I think I just wrote a song!"
-- Billy Joel, Motorcyclist, 02/2012

"If Moto Guzzi were any more of a cult, you'd need a chicken."
--- Dan Neil, The Wall Street Journal, 04/19/2013

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2015, 07:49:11 AM »
Then after becoming versed in how to scroll through the functions one day I shut it off and went for a ride. The first shotgun start with a little sand on the pavement the rear lit right up. And on wet, look out, in sport mode you will be in trouble pretty easy.

I was thinking about this some more last night...

* DID it actually step out, or just lite up for a second with the sand? I mean, was it a big deal?

* Rain and Sport mode - well, duh.

* Do you think the overly wide 200 rear tire is also a possible culprit? Think about it for rain, snow, even light sand on pavement you'd WANT a thinner tire so it doesn't float as easy. Wonder if this is one of the reasons I've almost never needed/wanted traction control on a bike, especially a large touring bike?

* Same as last point - VASCO - do you think that wide rear tire had something to do with your bad impressions on loose surfaces like dirt? (Though I would think dirt, without pavement under it, the wider tire would be better?). Or, what were the traction control settings you were using? Could they have been the culprit?

I still don't see why something with this relatively mild power-to-weight ratio really NEEDS TC - though again, I TOTALLY understand where it could be useful, like in rain etc.

And maybe I'm just being stubborn. Only 2 of my bikes in the past 2 decades have had ABS and though I've NEVER ACTUATED IT ON EITHER, I've softened my position and would probably chose it on most (all?) new future bikes just cause I'd rather have it and not need it, then need it and have it.

Either way thanks for the report and getting me thinking about TC...


JerryD - INTERESTING - IF TRUE, tubeless would be a notch in their pro column - though I'd still pick cast wheels on a cosmetic and ease of long term ownership standpoint. Of course, it sounds like these spoke wheels allow for more reasonably narrow tires which could be another consideration. Hmmm
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 07:49:47 AM by Kev m »
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Offline youcanrunnaked

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #79 on: March 18, 2015, 08:02:44 AM »
I was thinking about this some more last night...


I still don't see why something with this relatively mild power-to-weight ratio really NEEDS TC - though again, I TOTALLY understand where it could be useful, like in rain etc.



High torque motor plus the immediate response of ride-by-wire? 

Maybe it's just one of those good-to-have things that you don't really notice.  I never noticed the TC driving my car until a few days ago; after it had rained I went out and I was a little too aggressive with the throttle making a right turn at an intersection.  The inside rear wheel slipped for a split second and the TC light on the dash flickered.  Never noticed that before, but I suspect that until then the system had been working in the background, without me even knowing it.
"The transverse vibration is a great sensation -- hey, I think I just wrote a song!"
-- Billy Joel, Motorcyclist, 02/2012

"If Moto Guzzi were any more of a cult, you'd need a chicken."
--- Dan Neil, The Wall Street Journal, 04/19/2013

Online Kev m

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #80 on: March 18, 2015, 08:11:53 AM »
High torque motor plus the immediate response of ride-by-wire?  

Maybe it's just one of those good-to-have things that you don't really notice.  I never noticed the TC driving my car until a few days ago; after it had rained I went out and I was a little too aggressive with the throttle making a right turn at an intersection.  The inside rear wheel slipped for a split second and the TC light on the dash flickered.  Never noticed that before, but I suspect that until then the system had been working in the background, without me even knowing it.

But it's no higher torque than a number of bikes I've owned which are significantly lighter so have a better power-to-weight ratio.

And it's no higher torque than a number of bikes I've borrowed or demoed which were both as well.

And I don't recall the throttle response being unusually quick or anything like that.

I've actuated the TC on every car I've ever had that had it... I've also purposely shut it off at times when playing, especially on AWD models where it seemed to promote understeer if left active. <shrugs>

Again, not poo-pooing the tech, but like anything we can debate the "necessity" on a sliding scale.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 08:12:26 AM by Kev m »
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Offline rboe

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #81 on: March 18, 2015, 10:42:58 AM »
I suspect, like many things, the need (or want) will vary with the skill sets and attitudes of each rider. If it saves some folks from becoming a red stain on a guard rail I'm sure there are police that are glad to have fewer messes to clean up and mom's and wives glad to have their men back. Well, most of them anyway.....  ::)
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #82 on: March 18, 2015, 12:21:32 PM »
...the immediate response of ride-by-wire? 

 

One of the things I've noticed about drive-by-wire autos and ride-by-wire motorcycles is that they lack immediate response and actually have a dead feel just off the idle stop.  It's a feeling I'm sure I could get used to, but I sure don't like it.

I've noticed it driving Chevrolet Suburbans back to back, one with and one without throttle-by-wire.

I've also noticed it on Harley-Davidson, Indian, and Moto Guzzi motorcycles with ride-by-wire, that I've tested.

It's always nice to get back on my old Guzzi with an actual throttle cable that has instant response and no computer nanny.

Like I said, I'm sure I could get used to the dead throttle response of the late model vehicles.  I'm sure I will have to some day. 

But, from my experience so far, I would not think of the word "immediate" when thinking of throttle by wire...
Michael T.
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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #83 on: March 18, 2015, 12:29:50 PM »
To me it's horrible feeling on anything other than a sealed surface felt more like an inadequacy in the forks or the bars than being tyre related. Everything at the front just felt 'Bendy' and flexible, the rear felt fine.

As for TC? When the Cali first came out some fun was had at the importer trying to get the back end to step out. The warehouse has polished concrete floors and winding the Cali up a bit and dumping the clutch a few times resulted in a series of black 'Ticks' on the surface as the TC kicked in and prevented the back end stepping out. Once a discrepancy in wheel speeds is detected the reaction is in milliseconds, so quick as to appear instantaneous.

Thing is as mentioned in another thread on any machine with RBW all it takes is a couple of sensors and a few lines of code. Why not incorporate it? The option to turn it off is always there although I can't see why you would.

And Mike, the 'Dead' feeling of the RBW may simply be poor adjustment of the throttle cables to the demand sensor. This would still give a similar feeling to loose cables on a conventionally throttled FI bike.

Pete

Offline mjptexas

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #84 on: March 18, 2015, 02:06:41 PM »
I was thinking about this some more last night...

I still don't see why something with this relatively mild power-to-weight ratio really NEEDS TC - though again, I TOTALLY understand where it could be useful, like in rain etc.

And maybe I'm just being stubborn. Only 2 of my bikes in the past 2 decades have had ABS and though I've NEVER ACTUATED IT ON EITHER, I've softened my position and would probably chose it on most (all?) new future bikes just cause I'd rather have it and not need it, then need it and have it.

Either way thanks for the report and getting me thinking about TC...

In the 14 months I've had mine I've noticed at least 3 times that the TC kicked in.  All three situations were at low to moderate speed, and all involved a slick turn (two with sand, one with wet leaves - none of which was readily visible entering the turn).  There's a high probability that I would have gone down in two of the cases.  Made a TC believer out of me.

Re ABS:  In the most recent situation I was going 75 mph (legal speed on the particular West Texas road I was on) and a 'lady' in a minivan, talking on her cell phone, did a rolling stop at the stop sign and SLOWLY turned in front of me.  As I've said before the Cali has remarkable brakes.  I don't claim to be more than an average rider, but I do ride a lot.  I can say that I would not have been able to keep a non-ABS bike upright and stop in time to miss the car.

In all cases the bike was in Turisimo (touring) mode.
Mike

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #85 on: March 18, 2015, 02:25:34 PM »
I think it has less to do with peak torque values but more to do with how fast it can reach that number. In the cali's case it is damn fast as it is very eager to rev. The fact that peak torque comes at a very low rpm makes it deceptively quick from the get go. It has noticeably more power down low than does my griso and I am sure it would out run it until 70 mph or so. I do not know what a narrower rear would do but I suspect you could smoke it right up if you wanted to with the tc turned off. Like any long heavy cruiser it can be a hand full in loose gravel, I haven't felt that the forks are mushy, only that the long wheel base and rake angle make it anything but an off roader. I do ride many dirt roads here in Maine and do not shy away from them, you just have to take it easy and know it's limitations. Again this is where the tc is nice to have, you will not know it's even there until you turn it off. I also think that the heavier the bike, the more the tc becomes relevant, as it takes more initial force to get it rolling ,hence the greater likely hood of breaking traction if the motor is capable of developing the force required to do so. I definitely have not experienced any lag time on the throttle response. I would imagine that has more to do with proper set up and tuning, after all how fast does electricity travel? For what I purchased it for, long trips, two up and freighted, I have been very pleased so far. It makes a great highway cruiser and sporty enough to still be fun. I am sure others feel the same way about there harley's , bmw's or what have you , it's all good and makes for great discussion. As you can see I have been enjoying this topic, thanks,   Dave

Offline rocker59

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #86 on: March 18, 2015, 02:33:26 PM »
I also think that the heavier the bike, the more the tc becomes relevant, as it takes more initial force to get it rolling ,hence the greater likely hood of breaking traction if the motor is capable of developing the force required to do so. 

That doesn't really make sense.  More weight being applied downwards from a heavier bike would increase traction.

Two bikes with 100 bhp.  One weighs 400 lbs.  One weighs 800 lbs.  The lightweight bike is going to be the tire-smoking handful.
Michael T.
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Offline youcanrunnaked

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #87 on: March 18, 2015, 03:04:37 PM »
^^^^  But it's torque, not horsepower, that spins the rear tire.  Couldn't high torque at low rpm break traction on even a relatively hevay bike?

FWIW, my experience with RBW has been the opposite of yours.  I've twice ridden the Yamaha Super Tenere with RBW -- the throttle was, if anything, too responsive in Standard mode -- very snatchy and made the bike very jumpy at low speeds; Sport mode was even worse -- virtually unrideable, IMO.  There was no lag.  (I understand that for 2015, Yamaha has softened the throttle response.) 
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #88 on: March 18, 2015, 03:12:58 PM »
^^^^  But it's torque, not horsepower, that spins the rear tire.  Couldn't high torque at low rpm break traction on even a relatively hevay bike?

FWIW, my experience with RBW has been the opposite of yours.  I've twice ridden the Yamaha Super Tenere with RBW -- the throttle was, if anything, too responsive in Standard mode -- very snatchy and made the bike very jumpy at low speeds; Sport mode was even worse -- virtually unrideable, IMO.  There was no lag.  (I understand that for 2015, Yamaha has softened the throttle response.) 

OK.  Same thing.  Two bikes with 100 lb/ft of torque.  One weighs 400 lbs.  One weighs 800 lbs.  The lightweight bike will be the bigger handful.

As far as throttle goes, every throttle-by-wire vehicle I've driven/ridden has had funny lag.  Don't know why, but it has a different feel from a cable, and I don't really like it.  Admittedly, that has been three big touring cruisers, a mid-size cruiser, some large SUVs, and one-ton pickups.  As a rule I don't drive many cars, but I recall some wonky throttle response on a couple of Japanse mid-size cars I've had the poor fortune to drive.

As far as being snatchy on the bikes you've ridden, it was probably more related to the fuel maps.  I have ridden some snatchy cable-throttle EFI bike that were like you describe, and weren't much fun to ride.
Michael T.
Aux Arcs de Akansea
2004 California EV Touring II
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: Looking for information on the new California's
« Reply #89 on: March 18, 2015, 03:53:29 PM »
OK all you debaters,over anylizers and suspender snappers ;D Maybe someone should mention there are TWO of those big honkin' bikes here in the state on the showroom floor ready for a testride.
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