I've cheated and feel dirty

[Kev m]

Valves 8k ago, I only put about 2500 miles a year on her. I will probably do the both because, as you say, I will be a third of the way there. Glad to have an independent Duc mechanic who has probably done it close to a thousand times.

Here's my thought.

You have a pretty reasonable quote for the belts and valves. You've got 18k miles, and it was done at about 10k last. So does that mean 10k was the first check (instead of 7.5k)?

As I said earlier, my slightly later-model OM says EVERY 7.5k, but the chart I got from DMF suggests 7.5k, 22k, and then every 15k thereafter.

PERSONALLY I'm going to go 7.5k, 15k, 22k and BASED ON THAT (assuming there are few or minor changes at 22k and hopefully 15k too) I'll extend it to 15k.

If I'm guessing right and you've only ever had the first one done at 10k (or even if it's been done twice, say 5k and 10k) I'd still want do this one now.

Based on the results of this one and the previous one(s) is how I'd decide to proceed from there.

Also, what does your owner's manual say. You're ONE year before the chart I have starts. Does that mean they were recommended 3k or 3.5k or something like that your year and changed it the next?

Anyway, that's just my opinion, but I'm still relatively new to Ducs, though I am trying to pay attention.

The 750's were the slowest of the Monsters. Even the later 620's had more horsepower and were quicker.

Well, a slow 750 is no slouch.

MCN#'s

98 M750 425# wet, 57 hp / 45 torques - 12.66 1/4 mile
02 M620ie 424# wet 54 hp / 37 torques - 12.52 1/4 mile
06 M695 415# wet 62 hp / 42 torques - 12.90 1/4 mile
08 M696 408# wet 68 hp / 30* torques - 12.21 1/4 mile
10 M796 446# wet 76 hp / 51 torques - 11.97 1/4 mile

and for contrast

13 V7R 443# wet, 40 hp / 41 torques - 14.29 1/4 mile

06 Griso 1100 543# wet, 74 hp / 58 torques - 12.45 1/4 mile
09 Griso 1200 548# wet, 95 hp / 71 torques - 11.51 1/4 mile


* comparative data from MCN and from other sources suggest this might be a bad number. Cycleworld reported 66 hp / 44 torques which would be more in line with that 1/4 time.

[mjptexas]

I ride both a Griso and a Monster......
........ Whilst both bikes are 'street' bikes, riding my Griso back to back with the Monster is like chalk and cheese. The weight, sharpness of streering and pep of the throttle is very different.I consider the Griso to be my steady brisk bike. The Monster has a nick name.....ferret on steroids! .....

I have a Griso and a Monster.  Love both bikes, but a Monster is a completely different animal than the Griso.  IMHO every enthusiast should own a Monster, at least for a while.

[steven c]

Back about 7 years ago I had a Paso 750. I changed the belts and check the valves,which where in spec, wasn't very hard to do.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Back about 7 years ago I had a Paso 750. I changed the belts and check the valves,which where in spec, wasn't very hard to do.

Just did the belts on my Elefant, 30 minute job even with removing the tank and an engine to frame strut that's in the way. PO checked the valves a mere 100 miles ago, so I didn't mess with that. Should be fairly easy other than the exhaust valve on the vertical cylinder - the airbox will have to come out to access that rocker cover. Also it's an early engine without the clip, so the rocker pin has to be pulled to change the shims. My Paso is an '88 with the clip, so it'll be easier.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Mechanical "serial monogamy" is overrated... I've been looking for a new sidecar tug, something with at least 50 kw (67 hp) at the rear wheel to buck headwinds, big enough tank for 200km (124 mile) range, and sidecar mounts available. BMWs are way overpriced and nearest dealer 150 miles away, so a Stelvio is the logical choice. One dealer near (100 miles) me has a '11 Stelvio demo, but price is $13,600 firm. Other dealer near me (90 miles) has a leftover new '14 Stelvio for $14,000... Tempting! Then DMC sidecars comes out with sidecar mounts for the Yamaha Super Tenere, $14,600 for a new '14 and two dealers within a days roundtrip trailering offering leftover new '13s for $10,500! Lighter than a Stelvio but more complex with water cooling and shim valve adjustment that looks to be an all day job, but an excellent reputation for reliability. Sat on one last week and I can flat foot it, looks like I can tolerate it solo 'til the warranty runs out and I can hack it. I'm going for a test ride tomorrow and if it checks out OK, I'm buying... I have sinned, please forgive me!

[LowRyter]

I saw a booth at COTA last year with a business selling hardened shims and/or valve adjustment parts for Ducatis.  Their sign claimed that you could double the interval for valve adjustments. 
 
I have no idea if it worked or caused damage to the valve train.   I think they were California based.

[drums4money]

I saw a booth at COTA last year with a business selling hardened shims and/or valve adjustment parts for Ducatis.  Their sign claimed that you could double the interval for valve adjustments. 
 
I have no idea if it worked or caused damage to the valve train.   I think they were California based.

MBP Collets perhaps?

[Kev m]

I saw a booth at COTA last year with a business selling hardened shims and/or valve adjustment parts for Ducatis.  Their sign claimed that you could double the interval for valve adjustments. 
 
I have no idea if it worked or caused damage to the valve train.   I think they were California based.

Do you think that's what Ducati did to basically double their OEM recommended valve adjustment intervals in the last decade?

Or do you think it was just a result of sufficient data showing that the intervals were simply outdated?

[jas67]

Two valve ducks are easy.. 4 valve? Not so much.  ;D

That's why I bought one of the last of the 796's and not the new 821.     Though, the maintenance intervals on the 821 are a lot longer, so, if paying someone else, it might be a wash.

[jas67]

The 750's were the slowest of the Monsters. Even the later 620's had more horsepower and were quicker.

Actually the 600 was the slowest.    The 750 was the middle model at the time, and the 900 the fastest.

... (does it have a metal tank?) other than a plastic fuel filter.

All the first gen Monsters (600/750/900) have a metal tank. (does it have a metal tank?) other than a plastic fuel filter.     The early 620's have a metal tank, the later ones (2005-2006, IIRC) have a plastic tank.     All later 2V Monsters (695, S2R, S4R, etc) have a plastic tank.     The last of the 2V monsters (696, 796, 1100) have a plastic tank with separate covers, thus ethanol bulging of the tank presents less of a problem (with cosmetics anyway).

Buy it! At that price, you can have some fun and if it turns out to just be a fling instead of true love, you should have no problem getting your investment back on it.

 :+1

[jas67]

Peter, forgive me, but I'm a little skeptical about those valve adjustment intervals. AFAIK on the air-cooled motors they USED to be 3k, were lengthened to 7.5k around EDIT - 08 or so (like with our 2011 696) and never exceeded that (unless it's after the first couple of valve checks).

EDIT - I'm seeing conflicting info.

My 11 696 owner's manual (and I'm pretty sure Jays 14 796) both clearly state valves are done every 7500 for every interval listed.

BUT I've got a chart from DMF, it's a little unclear but it LOOKS LIKE IT IS FROM DUCATI and it LOOKS to me like they are saying there were two intervals depending on model.

7500 and 15000

The CHART suggests that after the first service your intervals are right and my owner's manual is wrong (maybe superseded - I'll ask this spring when we bring Jenn's 696 in for the 7500 mile service).

The CHART suggests 7500 models were checked at 7500 for the FIRST CHECK ONLY - then every 15000 - i.e. 73.5k, 22.5k, 37.5k, 52.5k

15000 models were checked at 15000 for each check (first included) - so 15k, 30k, 45k, 60k.

I'll be very curious to see how that turns out.

The 15,000 mile interval is for the Testastretta 4V water-cooled motors (821, 1200, 1200S Monsters + Diavel, and pretty much every other current model).

The 600/750/900 Monsters have the 3,000 mile interval.    As Kev M stated, the interval wasn't raised to 7,500 until around 2008, which would be the 696/796/1100 models.

The notchy throttle is probably more a function of the extra tall gearing. Up the rear sprocket 2 teeth and 1st gear actually becomes usable.

Form what my long-time Ducati owning friends tell me, Ducatis in general tend to geared tall.    I changed the front sprocket my 796 from a 15 to 14.    That made it perfect.    With the 15, it was a bit rough off the line unless you launched hard, and 6th gear wasn't really usable until 75 MPH.    The 14 is perfect.

That said, I've ridden Jenn's (Kev M) 696, and feel that the stock gearing is just fine on that model.

[Perazzimx14]

Kev, wondering if you have an opinion.
My service quote is $160 for belts and $400 for valves. It has 18k miles and is running perfectly, never abused. I suspect the valves will not need adjustment, as the 2 valves tend to settle in with more miles. Should I just do belts since it's been three years and leave the valves alone?

Belts are about $90 from CA Cycle and are easy to change. 1st time I did mine I got home from work and while still in office atire I thought I'll just take a cover off to have a look. 30 minutes later in the same cloths I was buttoning things up and the job was completed. No mess no fuss. This was even before I had a lift. Now it takes abotu 15 minutes. Watch Chris's video on youtube and do it yourself. Same for the valves. Do the whole service yourself and save $500 +/- and be a slave to the shop rates no longer ;-T.

For what ist worth Eraldo Ferracci has also made the statment that only the "openers" need to be checked/adjusted, the closers have no pressure on them.

[M0T0Geezer]

No doubt about it:

Multiple motorcycles cost less than multiple women (and are more fun, too).

Been there, done them...  ~;

'Geezer

[meccanicab]

I know that's the corporate line. I'm just finding more and more like-minded people who feel the time limit is very conservative.

I won't disagree with your approach, and at the risk of contadicting myself, the S4 I run has had the same belts for 4 years and about 6k milage. The difficulty is I have known guys who have not changed their belts after 2 yrs/ 12k and the belts have snapped! It's a lottery as I see it, play the odds or follow Ducati's recommended service intervals.

Also on the subject of belts changes, on both the 2V and 4V, changing belts is a matter of patience and a few dedicated tools, i.e a cam wheel lock on the 4V makes the process much easier.
 

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm going for a test ride tomorrow and if it checks out OK, I'm buying... I have sinned, please forgive me!

You are forgiven, Gearhead girl. I don't blame you, and would do it, too. See, don't you feel better already?  ;D :BEER:

[GearheadGrrrl]

Thank you for the pre-emptive absolution, I bought the Yamaha!

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thank you for the pre-emptive absolution, I bought the Yamaha!

Attagirl..

[Kev m]

I won't disagree with your approach, and at the risk of contadicting myself, the S4 I run has had the same belts for 4 years and about 6k milage. The difficulty is I have known guys who have not changed their belts after 2 yrs/ 12k and the belts have snapped! It's a lottery as I see it, play the odds or follow Ducati's recommended service intervals.

Also on the subject of belts changes, on both the 2V and 4V, changing belts is a matter of patience and a few dedicated tools, i.e a cam wheel lock on the 4V makes the process much easier.

I hear you.

I suspect ambient conditions and usage play large rolls.

Ours isn't generally exposed to extreme temps, speeds, or lots of WOT, so I suspect the risk is minimal.

I might feel different living in AZ and wringing the snot out of it.

[LowRyter]

ride what you want.  But check on the service before you buy it.

[guzzista]

Modern valves and seats quality being what they are will result in the closer shims to stay put for a long time. As far as the openers, late models Ducatis (both air and water cooled) tend to need little in the way of shimming when they are normally ridden on the street. Checked  my 07 GT1000  at 4500 and again at 12500 and no adjustments were needed. OTOH, a friend running a 01 900SS as a track bike has had to adjust the valves twice in less than 3k miles.  Pre TestaStretta 4V bikes, with their peeling rockers and sometimes so-so collets etc..Whole 'nother story..

[Kev m]

Hmm , this hardened shim discussion sounds familiar . Still don't understand how a hardened shim increases service intervals , isn't the wear at the valve/valve seat interface , and the cam/cam follower contact . The shims just take up the slack , correct ?

  Dusty

Is the wear at the valve and seat on a Desmo? I would think the difference in valve actuation greatly changes the force of closing valves, but I could be wrong.

[oldbike54]

Is the wear at the valve and seat on a Desmo? I would think the difference in valve actuation greatly changes the force of closing valves, but I could be wrong.

 Thinking the impact forces are not really much different than a valve closed by a spring . My guess is any significant decrease in wear is still due to better valves and seats , harder cams and followers , and better lubrication .

  Dusty

[oldbike54]

 Oh this is funny . Those of you familiar with the British murder mystery "Death in paradise" is aware of the hack'd RE that one of the local police officers rides . He was sitting at his desk reading a moto mag , guess what was on the cover . Well of course , a late gen Monster . Just flipped over from BB , and bam , there it
was  :D :D

  Dusty

[LowRyter]

Hmm , this hardened shim discussion sounds familiar . Still don't understand how a hardened shim increases service intervals , isn't the wear at the valve/valve seat interface , and the cam/cam follower contact . The shims just take up the slack , correct ?

  Dusty

collets 

[oldbike54]

collets 

 Well dangit , why did I read shims  ???

" Good morning folks , this is Dick Lexia with your four day five cast "

  Dusty

[Buckturgidson]

Kev,
Thanks for well considered response, I will extend my intervals after this service. Done at 6k, 10k-11k, and now at 18k. Manual says 7.5k.
The first owner did the 6k and was kind enough to put $3500 in goodies on her. I think it even has aftermarket wheels which would mean more than $3500, they are Marchesini. In spite of all that the gentleman apparently didn't understand correct braking, as the rear pads were worn to almost nothing when I bought her at 7.2k miles.

[Birch71]

Well it sold the day after I posted this, and not to me.

That being said, it may have given me a bit of an early Monster bug.

Need to spend a little time on one, that's for sure.

Might be for a different thread, but any clue if an older 750 or 900 monster would be a decent intro track bike if dialed in? I'm not talking warp speed Moto GP wanna be, but as a learning tool since I've only been riding a couple of years.

[dsrdave]

If you want a track day bike I'd recc. a 600 or 750 GSXR.  Lots of them around and good bikes.  Get one new enough to be injected.  Just my 2 pennies...........

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^  If you have little or no track time, I suggest a Suzuki SV650.  The power is more tractable for a beginner, and you'll be as fast if not faster in the corners.  You'll be slower on the straights, but it's a track day, not a race, so who cares?  Any monkey can twist a throttle; the skill you're developing is cornering skill. If you like the Ducati Monster, well, the SV is the poor man's Monster.  Plus, decent used ones go for about half of what decent used supersports go for ($2K vs. $4K), so when (not if) you throw the bike down the track, it will hurt a bit less (at least, financially).

[Perazzimx14]

^^^  If you have little or no track time, I suggest a Suzuki SV650.  The power is more tractable for a beginner, and you'll be as fast if not faster in the corners.  You'll be slower on the straights, but it's a track day, not a race, so who cares?  Any monkey can twist a throttle; the skill you're developing is cornering skill. If you like the Ducati Monster, well, the SV is the poor man's Monster.  Plus, decent used ones go for about half of what decent used supersports go for ($2K vs. $4K), so when (not if) you throw the bike down the track, it will hurt a bit less (at least, financially).

Even better an old style Ninja 250. Learn to carry speed into corners and if you lay it down it might cost you $50 or $100 dollars to repair for the next track day. There is almost and endless supply of very inexpensive parts. That way you can have extra wheels and stock some of the more common parts without breaking the bank.

You might not go fast but like above you not racing your learning and having fun.