No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics -Contact from UFI

[HDGoose]

Those Stainless steel serviceable oil  filters are starting to look a lot better now aren't they.

 

[keuka4884]

Looks like you got a couple of refurbished filters to me.

[PeteS]

Is that rust or thread sealant? Doesn't look good though.

Pete

[canuguzzi]

These were brand new out of the box. Two of them. It isn't sealant on the threads it is rust. The goop coming out from the outside toward the inside isn't something anyone else would put there, this was used in the manufacturing process.

They came from a good MG dealer who also sells Triumph, Norton and Ducati.  I called them and they will exchange them of course but that isn't really the point for me, it is an obvious lack of quality control and if it looks like this on the outside, who knows what they do on the inside?

What I'm hoping for and you can call me naive, is that my contact request to UFI will result in someone there taking some notice and pulling that entire lot. That would be the thing to do. It shouldn't take long for that to happen and I'll check back next week since the Norge is going in for the fuel tank gauge fix.

If UFI just ignores this (and I gave them all the info they should need to at least pull the lot) then how can they be trusted?

People who buy MGs seem to go through a lot of trouble to use spec stuff and pay quite a bit of attention to maintenance. It is only right that good parts are put into the supply chain.

With today's modern manufacturing processes, there is no reason a filter like this should get through, let alone more than one. Making this stuff is a science, the variables are known and can be controlled.

Brand loyalty isn't a one way street.

Here are two more pics one of the new filter and one of the old without the sealing gasket.

The old filter. Notice how the spot welds are evenly distributed around the circumference? The metal used on the plate is very smooth, no burrs or anything like that.



Now the new filter. The spot welds are haphazardly done and the metal is very rough to the touch and has burrs on it.  I scraped the oozing sealant off a bit, it came off very easily.

The new filter does not appear to be made on an automated assembly line but more like some goobers making them up by hand.

[motoTommaso]

I wonder if these are Chinese knock-offs that some how entered the legit distribution channels?

http://thecounterfeitreport.com/article/333/Honda-warns-public-against-fake-motorcycles-and-parts.html

http://www.tohonmotor.com/news/chongqing-customs-destroyed-thousand-of-fake-and-infriging-motorcycle-parts.html

[old as dirt 2]

I have been using Hilo filters on my MP3 for 7 years now with excellent results and satisfaction. Will continue with my guzzi as well.

[canuguzzi]

There would be more of an incentive to counterfeit filters selling for about $12.00+ than much less than that, who knows?

UFI is just another third party making filters, marketing and EU trade agreements probably have more to do with UFi being recommended for MGs than any other reason. Since the UFI model designation for the Norge is also used in other engines or different brands, it is doubtful the filter is specifically made for the Norge.

Just following my own advice now, swapped brands, filter on and oil going in. Maybe Fram will get a kick out of this since they are the tail end of most oil filter stories.

If the Norge is that fussy about the oil filter that it must be a UFI then we had all better carry a spare around because crap happens. Somehow I don't think that is the case.

[Arizona Wayne]

Those Stainless steel serviceable oil  filters are starting to look a lot better now aren't they.

Not to me.   There's no way stainless wire is going to match the micro-filtration of paper fabric use only once.

[leafman60]

Cutting one of those new UFI filters open and looking at the inside would be interesting.

[Bobolink]

"Cutting one of those new UFI filters open and looking at the inside would be interesting."   
Not sure I even want to see what's inside. Kinda makes me wonder how many of these on are on bikes right now.
Napa Gold 1348 is what I use.[

[guzzibob]

Within the last week got 2 UFI filters for my Norge from MG Cycle, installed one of them yesterday after carefully inspecting both of them. Absolutely nothing amiss on either. They both indicated made in Tunisia. I have been using UFI filters exclusively for over 40 years and 400,000 miles, never had an issue of any kind. Nor has any of them ever come with a washer, just the rubber gasket shown in  the pictures.  I will continue to use them absent additional evidence. Making oil filters is not exactly high, or even medium tech, and I see no reason why for something like this I would trust, say, Roumanian sourcing more (or less) than Tunisian. Seen plenty of examples of crap from supposedly more advanced places like Italy (the late '06-early '07 Norge oil pump rotors), Japan (auto air bags), Germany (BMW bike rear end bearings), France (early Valeo starters), plus all kinds of stuff from China-or the US. I think these might well be counterfeit.   

[Vasco DG]

Those Stainless steel serviceable oil  filters are starting to look a lot better now aren't they.

Only to an idiot.

[Bonafide Bob]

Only to an idiot.

Play nice...name calling is not necessary.

[kirby1923]

A considerable advantage of the steel mesh filters is that they will flow the same oil (GPM) at 0*C as at 15*C and since the most wear an engine will see is at start up with few exceptions in normal use.

No bypass with the steel filter, ever.

mike

[Triple Jim]

Bypassing doesn't mean lower oil flow when it's cold or any other time, just that it doesn't all go through the filter every pass, and that's nothing to be scared about under normal circumstances.  When a filter is used for a while and the pressure drop across it starts to rise, it actually gets better at filtering, so even if you take it to the limit and the bypass valve starts to let some oil go around the filter, that oil will eventually pass through and be well filtered.

Bypassing doesn't return the oil to the sump, it just lets some avoid the filter.

[Arizona Wayne]

Bypassing doesn't mean lower oil flow when it's cold or any other time, just that it doesn't all go through the filter every pass, and that's nothing to be scared about under normal circumstances.  When a filter is used for a while and the pressure drop across it starts to rise, it actually gets better at filtering, so even if you take it to the limit and the bypass valve starts to let some oil go around the filter, that oil will eventually pass through and be well filtered.

Bypassing doesn't return the oil to the sump, it just lets some avoid the filter.

I would think the bypass feature is for when the filter is full of crap and needs replacement.

[Triple Jim]

I would think the by[pass feature is for when the filter is full of crap and needs replacement.

True, but the filter doesn't stop doing its job just because some oil bypasses it.  If you keep going until nearly no oil gets through, then of course filtration will suffer.

[kirby1923]

Correct for most engines, sooner or later the oil will get filtered.

[Triple Jim]

I'm speaking about the bypass valve that's insider the filter, which most have.  The valve at the oil pump, to prevent too much oil pressure, is another matter.

[kirby1923]

Bingo, even the coldest WX on a cold Minnesota winter morning will let that happen with steel mesh.

:-)

[toaster404]

http://www.gwrra-ohh2.org/pdf/oilfilter.pdf  Was of interest.  I see now the weakness of just the steel mesh filter.  I also see why the bypass slow mega-filtering of the toilet paper roll was effective.

So what good filter for the Cali 1400 that I can actually get easily? 

[bad Chad]

Wow, how cool is it that it's all so crystal clear to us all, and we all can agree on the obvious!

[canuguzzi]

Within the last week got 2 UFI filters for my Norge from MG Cycle, installed one of them yesterday after carefully inspecting both of them. Absolutely nothing amiss on either. They both indicated made in Tunisia. I have been using UFI filters exclusively for over 40 years and 400,000 miles, never had an issue of any kind. Nor has any of them ever come with a washer, just the rubber gasket shown in  the pictures.  I will continue to use them absent additional evidence. Making oil filters is not exactly high, or even medium tech, and I see no reason why for something like this I would trust, say, Roumanian sourcing more (or less) than Tunisian. Seen plenty of examples of crap from supposedly more advanced places like Italy (the late '06-early '07 Norge oil pump rotors), Japan (auto air bags), Germany (BMW bike rear end bearings), France (early Valeo starters), plus all kinds of stuff from China-or the US. I think these might well be counterfeit.   

I wasn't trying to disparage Tunisia, that what was printed on the bottom of the filter, previously I note nothing was printed on the bottom of UFI filters I bought.

To date, every UFI filter I bought came with a crush washer, taped inside the box. Maybe someone was being nice to me and putting it in there but this time it wasn't there.

I can't speak for any experiences with UFI filters anyone else has had, my most recent experience was as described and I posted pictured to allow others to see them.

I won't use UFI filters again unless some response from UFI is forthcoming with some positive comments about what they are going to do. I would expect that with 2 filters in the same lot being in the same condition, that it would prompt something more than silence. They don't have to do a thing but then I don't have to buy their filters either.

Modern manufacturing of items like this can catch obvious defects to a degree they don't make it to distribution. How many defective cans of Budweiser get to the shelves? They are made in the hundreds of millions.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that UFI filters are trash but the last two I bought are exactly that, trash. Everyone seeing the pictures can come to their own conclusion but in over 45 years of changing oil on my vehicles, I have never seen this with an oil filter.

[Arizona Wayne]

If I ever got a bonafide UFI filter that looks like yours I wouldn't be happy either.  But you seem to be the only buyer here that has gotten these lower quality filters.  I'm not blaming you, but I suspect your source for them has been had or are pulling a fast 1. 

[normzone]

I've got two in waiting in my spare room, as I'm about to change my first filter. So I got one out of the sealed Guzzi box - no washer with it as you described, but I'd hardly expect such a thing to be included.

22/15/2014 on the filter, Tunisia.
Distributor GU20153000 - mine came from the same as yours
Data 03-GIU-2014 - just guessing the first two digits is a week of the year code, the last two the year.

None of that red stuff in the threads, and as for the solder sealing or whatever that irregularity that there's so much of in your picture, only the tiniest trace of a trace on this one.

How much of this is cosmetic issues and how much is structural and problematic? I'm new to air filter dissection and analysis, but with a background in QA I'm always interested in such issues.

Counterfeits were mentioned earlier above. That's such a big problem now that it's impacting a lot of industries, mine included. The difference between the welds on the good one shown and the sloppy one are so dramatic they cannot have come from the same source.

[Phang]

Out of curiosity, I dug out the two new UFI I have in the tool box for comparison purposes.

Yes, they are both made in Tunisia, came in UFI paper box, no Piaggio/Guzzi part number or label on the box, no washer in the box (never had one).

Both look good and well made to me, just like the dozen of UFI I have installed.

[leafman60]

I have one or two UFI filters on my shelf as well as one or two Bosch units.

I appreciate the heads-up of this thread and itt makes me cautious about ordering UFI filters.

I hope others will post of they obtain similar pieces.  I'd send them back.

[normzone]

Interesting that the stacking of the numerical data and the made in Tunisia info is different on mine than yours. On mine Tunisia is on top.

These things are often the result of multiple pieces of tooling in a legitimate shop. They can also be the result of counterfeiters just giving it their best effort to look like the real deal.

[sib]

UFI quality control issues may extend to other filters.  My V7 Stones ('13 and '16) take a different oil filter, UFI 25-531-00, which has a perforated metal outer cage surrounding the paper element.  When I got my first Stone, I ordered 2 of these filters from one of the usual online MG suppliers.  On one of the filters, the metal cage wasn't assembled correctly, it had a crimp and a gap.  I told the supplier this, and he quickly sent a free replacement.  Now I carefully inspect all repair and maintenance parts as soon as they arrive.  But, I haven't had another problem with these UFI filters.  I'm guessing that all manufacturers produce an occasional flawed unit, but that the more reliable ones invest more in their QC inspection departments.

[canuguzzi]

I don't buy the counterfeiting thing. There are easier ways to make money making knock-offs than making motorcycle oil filters. First, the margins can't be that high considering we are talking about something that costs maybe 12 bucks and second, they aren't selling this filter by the millions or even hundreds of thousands.

If you're going to counterfeit an oil filter used by motorcycles, then making them for MGs is the way to go? Sorry, I can't see the logic there. For Japanese bikes sure, but for Moto Guzzis?  Outside of MG, go to any bike shop selling a lot of bikes and ask for a UFI filter and see what happens.

A sewing machine and some leather and a counterfeiter can make hundreds per handbag. A few bucks on an oil filter that in the US few people look for let alone know the brand name?

The chances are far greater that there are a lot more UFI filters out there like what I got than me being the only one who bought two with the same problem.

Most people would simply take it back if they bothered to look or care and that would be the end of it. I just happened to say something.