Author Topic: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics -Contact from UFI  (Read 28147 times)

Offline guzzibob

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2015, 01:53:00 PM »
I wasn't trying to disparage Tunisia, that what was printed on the bottom of the filter, previously I note nothing was printed on the bottom of UFI filters I bought.


Not saying you were, really responding more to Bad Chad's comments about supply origin. I do appreciate your bringing this to our attention, it could be really important. That said, despite all the Guzzi folk that read here and use UFI filters on a regular basis, there really hasn't been much to support the idea that what you got is anything more than a rare anomaly or an out and out fake or fraud of some kind. And while it would of course make more economic sense to fake something more widely used, I suspect the kind of folk who do these things are often not the brightest or most knowledgeable.

And speaking of Fram filters, I had one installed at an oil change shop on the wife's car that had a nick in the rubber gasket (from the shape of it not likely caused by the shop) big enough to piss out most of the contents of the sump in the couple miles I drove it before the shop was able to get a hold of me. They saw the oil trailing behind me as I was pulling away.  I was lucky, no damage done as far as I could tell. Point is, shit happens, and can happen to anyone. Question is, how often, and what do they do about it-if it was really them & not some scumbag.
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2015, 02:39:28 PM »
And speaking of Fram filters, I had one installed at an oil change shop on the wife's car that had a nick in the rubber gasket (from the shape of it not likely caused by the shop) big enough to piss out most of the contents of the sump in the couple miles I drove it before the shop was able to get a hold of me. They saw the oil trailing behind me as I was pulling away.

So part of their procedure isn't to start the engine and check for leaks?  Amazing.
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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2015, 06:37:08 PM »
It's worth remembering that plenty of other vehicles use the same or similar filters. It isn't unique to Moto Guzzi. From memory several small Fiats use or used it as well in the past so numbers would be higher than those simply required for Guzzi.

While I will examine filters more carefully in the light of this I have yet to see anything that looks as poorly constructed in my supply. Another thing that crossed my mind was how many flutes the filter has? In Oz all the filters I'm recieving are still eight flute. If the one in question is a fourteen flute unit maybe it is a knock off? Who knows?

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Online bad Chad

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2015, 06:44:58 PM »
I was told all new filters for 2 valve big blocks are 14 flute. The change from 8 to 14 took place about two years ago. ❓❓
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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2015, 06:44:58 PM »

Online normzone

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2015, 06:53:25 PM »
I don't buy the counterfeiting thing. There are easier ways to make money making knock-offs than making motorcycle oil filters. First, the margins can't be that high considering we are talking about something that costs maybe 12 bucks and second, they aren't selling this filter by the millions or even hundreds of thousands.

If you're going to counterfeit an oil filter used by motorcycles, then making them for MGs is the way to go? Sorry, I can't see the logic there.

I'm not going to contend that the sloppy example shown IS a counterfeit. But I'd be hard pressed to call that a Quality Control issue - it doesn't show ANY evidence of having been made by trained employees using the appropriate tools. Even if a few of the usual crew and some friends came in on the weekend and made them on the side for pocket money, they'd look far better than that.

Counterfeiting has become a world wide problem. In China taking ten cent components off of dead motherboards, and out of dead phones, making them look new and putting them back in the supply chain is a cottage industry that feeds many families.  So many of our base components come from there that the clearing site for detected counterfeit incidents often cites more than a hundred DETECTED events each month.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 07:09:47 PM by normzone »
That's the combustion chamber of the turbo shaft. It is supposed to be on fire. You just don't usually see it but the case and fairing fell off.

canuguzzi

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2015, 09:52:33 PM »
Went back to the dealer for the fuel gauge fix. Asked for two new filters and was given HiFlow brand.

Appears lot got pulled.

Maybe a few chains got pulled too.

Offline rodekyll

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2015, 10:22:17 PM »
If you're going to be a counterfeiter, I agree that it's silly to pick on moto guzzi.  So does the counterfeiter.  So he labels his counterfeit to whatever other mfgrs and part#s they physically resemble in barrel and thread. 

A shop e-orders  from OEM WHOLESALERS LTD (IP maps to "scams-be-us.con") for two gross of Fram Super-Suddzer filters.  Sam the Scam gets up from his MacBook pro and runs out and buys an example of the real thing and labels up two gross of the similar-looking fake to mimick it.  Tomorrow the order comes for the Bosch version of the same filter.  A little paint and some lettering and the same counterfeit goes out under different cover.  Next day, same thing, different label, and so on.

canuguzzi

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2015, 11:48:23 PM »
Thats a lot of work for a low return.  I don't put it past people to spend $6 to make $6 and then only a few multiples at that.

Now he has to get them into the supply chain, he has to actually ship them, box them up, its costing money every step of the way and in the end, he made a couple of hundred dollars but spent half that up front to get it going.

Then in short order, someone complains and the gig is up. He can start all over again but at some point even the stupid figure out they could just make an oil filter and sell it at a discount and sell a lot of them, especially if engines weren't failing all over the place because of it.

The dealer sends the product back, the financials get rolling for refunds and there sits our guy wondering who is knocking on their door at 3am.

I doubt an engine would fail right away with the filters in question, there are people using rolls of toilet paper as oil filters. He could call them UFOs and if he sold them at a good price, he'd sell a bunch. Given that UFI filters are sold in nothing more than a plain white box with some sticker on the side, the counterfeiter could make them look better and create their own discount brand. The investment to make even crappy filters is no small amount.

Maybe one of the dealer people on the forum could answer, how many times has the factory asked for the oil filter when an engine failed in whole or part and do they accept what the dealer says and go from there. I mean if the dealer sold the filter, the engine failed and the customer says "hey, I bought the filter from YOU", what are the chances someone says "yeah, guess we sold a counterfeit". The customer has recourse, he knows where he bought the filter and can prove it.

Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2015, 12:31:21 AM »


And speaking of Fram filters, I had one installed at an oil change shop on the wife's car that had a nick in the rubber gasket (from the shape of it not likely caused by the shop) big enough to piss out most of the contents of the sump in the couple miles I drove it before the shop was able to get a hold of me. They saw the oil trailing behind me as I was pulling away.  I was lucky, no damage done as far as I could tell. Point is, shit happens, and can happen to anyone. Question is, how often, and what do they do about it-if it was really them & not some scumbag.
[/quote]



Is that what the shop told you?  If you had ever done it yourself you would know you put a film of oil on the rubber gasket b4 you install the gasket so it doesn't get pinched when installing.  They just CTA.

Offline toaster404

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2015, 07:59:26 AM »
Maybe one of the dealer people on the forum could answer, how many times has the factory asked for the oil filter when an engine failed in whole or part and do they accept what the dealer says and go from there. I mean if the dealer sold the filter, the engine failed and the customer says "hey, I bought the filter from YOU", what are the chances someone says "yeah, guess we sold a counterfeit". The customer has recourse, he knows where he bought the filter and can prove it.

Not a factory, but the only time I have had a filter that was part of a problem asked for was by an attorney representing WalMart.  My client had the filter and all the documentation.  I can't recall the exact problem, but the overall pile of stuff they asked for resulted in some kind of settlement.

canuguzzi

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2015, 11:20:55 AM »
Okay, I heard back from UFI and considering time differences, the dateline and all that, a pretty rapid response.

Their answer was to return the filters to the dealer for replacement, (I did, they replaced them with HiFlo filters) and said they would investigate the matter.

They didn't ask for pictures of the filters although I did provide the lot# in the initial contact form so I replied with the same pictures I posted here.

Regardless of the problem, they did reply, promptly and since things can happen, its a good sign they respond to things like this.

When the Norge was in for service yesterday, I did show the filters to the tech working on my Norge (very good tech BTW and THE tech at Munroe's that works on MGs). I have no doubt that it wouldn't get past him and simply get spun on.

So some kudos to UFI for taking this seriously, I hope it helps them determine the source of the problem and lets them improve their product.

Offline guzzibob

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2015, 12:50:36 AM »

And speaking of Fram filters, I had one installed at an oil change shop on the wife's car that had a nick in the rubber gasket (from the shape of it not likely caused by the shop) big enough to piss out most of the contents of the sump in the couple miles I drove it before the shop was able to get a hold of me. They saw the oil trailing behind me as I was pulling away.  I was lucky, no damage done as far as I could tell. Point is, shit happens, and can happen to anyone. Question is, how often, and what do they do about it-if it was really them & not some scumbag.

Is that what the shop told you?  If you had ever done it yourself you would know you put a film of oil on the rubber gasket b4 you install the gasket so it doesn't get pinched when installing.  They just CTA.

Actually they showed it to me the same day they installed and then removed it. Actually looked more like some kind of defect than a cut. Kind of like a perfectly smooth crescent moon. No reason for them to deflect to Fram/CTA, they were willing to admit/document that they installed it and take whatever consequences followed-which turned out to be none. My contract was with them, not Fram. I bought the Fram from them.
Bob Dickman
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07 Norge
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics -Contact from UFI
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2015, 02:00:14 AM »
I think the problem is that regardless of where the filter was bought, a 'defect' big enough to piss out the oil in a couple of miles should be readily noticeable by the installer.  Even if he couldn't see it, he should have felt it while oiling the gasket.  So the question is -- did they notice the problem and install it anyway because the customer brought it in, or are they blind and numb?

Offline Nick

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics -Contact from UFI
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2015, 07:56:46 AM »
Just checked my UFI stash....have 9 left of the ten I purchased, all made in Tunisia, and all look good!  :thumb: 

Offline ITSec

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics -Contact from UFI
« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2015, 06:26:58 PM »
My Norge has had nothing but Mobil 1's M1-102 filters since early days, now at about 95,000 miles. For me it was a bit about having more confidence in the quality of the filter, but it was also about confidence in availability, no matter where I travel...

I do like the background info on Mark Lawrence's website http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html on both oil and oil filters. I don't agree with everything he says, but he has some good rationale for his views.
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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics -Contact from UFI
« Reply #75 on: July 03, 2015, 06:33:16 PM »
Just checked my UFI stash....have 9 left of the ten I purchased, all made in Tunisia, and all look good!  :thumb: 

 Apparently "Made in Tunisia" means something  :grin:

  Dusty

Offline guzzibob

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics -Contact from UFI
« Reply #76 on: July 03, 2015, 11:50:15 PM »
I think the problem is that regardless of where the filter was bought, a 'defect' big enough to piss out the oil in a couple of miles should be readily noticeable by the installer.  Even if he couldn't see it, he should have felt it while oiling the gasket.  So the question is -- did they notice the problem and install it anyway because the customer brought it in, or are they blind and numb?

I did not bring in the filter, I bought it from them, like I said in prior post. We were discussing manufacturing defects, and in this particular case the manufacturer of the filter-and the defect-was Fram.
Bob Dickman
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: No more UFI filters for me - Updated pics -Contact from UFI
« Reply #77 on: July 04, 2015, 01:43:49 AM »
Sorry.  When I read "I had them install ..  ." instead of "they installed" I took it to mean you had provided it.

The rest of my comment stands -- if the defect was large enough to drain your oil in a few miles it should have been caught by a professional mechanic before installation.  Even our non-mechanic OP noticed his had a defect . . .

 

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