Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms

[Semper-guzzi]

Wooooo hoo. Glad it worked out Rob!!!!

[Aaron D.]

Great news!

Power Commanders and airbox mods-I hate those on Guzzis.

[Cam3512]

Glad you're able to press on Rob.  You're not the first one to unplug a PC to make the bike run better.

Hate those things too.

Cam

[Chuck in Indiana]

These machines are getting old, and electrical connections are getting corroded. I've found that Wayne's magic Caig DeOxit on every electrical connector works wonders. Probably will fix that PC, too.
I've still gotta think that pulling the fuel petcock was the main culprit. Maybe water?

[Joe A.]

Great news!

Power Commanders and airbox mods-I hate those on Guzzis.

this!

Glad you're back on the road Rob.

[radguzzi]

I took off late this morning,  heading for Scranton then 84. East.

Unfortunately there is a distinct hitch in the throttle at the speed I need to maintain.

I would love to go 80 all the time but I need my license.   The plan is to make it home tonight.  More later as I stop for fuel.

Best,
Rob

[rocker59]

I took off late this morning,  heading for Scranton then 84. East.

Unfortunately there is a distinct hitch in the throttle at the speed I need to maintain.

I would love to go 80 all the time but I need my license.   The plan is to make it home tonight.  More later as I stop for fuel.

Best,
Rob

It's stumbling in 5th at 70mph ?

Run it in 4th at 70mph.

[Wayne Orwig]

And then it dawned on me, there is a PC 3 connected to this motorcycle, I unplugged it plugged the stock ECU in and long story short rode to Chambersburg with nary a hitch.

Should have known. My PC3 is in a box in the garage from where it shut down my bike a few times.

I still think you need a new TPS.

[Groover]

It's been great to part of this thread. Almost feels like a pit-stop crew!

[pehayes]

Unfortunately there is a distinct hitch in the throttle at the speed I need to maintain.

Big hint.  The reason it is stumbling at that particular speed is because  you commonly run for long distances with all of the parameters at that one setting.  What is the one sensor or device that YOU control?  The TPS.  The internal contact sweepers are always hovering at or about the same location.  Miniscule internal resistance and sparking, etc.  Leads to wear, dirt, corrosion at that one particular location of the arc.  Eventually wears or changes more at that point than anywhere else along the sweep arc.

Change the TPS.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[radguzzi]

The stumbling seems to be worse with the last one third of the tank forcing sooner pit stops... 

A clue to the filter and or pump...?  Who knows.

More later.

[Kent in Upstate NY]

Did you pull the petcock to check the filter or did you just check the flow?

[Kiwi_Roy]

I still think you have a filter problem however as Patrick pointed out the TPS may have a dead spot. This would be easy to verify if you have a multimeter, not so easy on the road though, can you get to someone with a meter?

If the bike starts to fail again you could loosen the TPS and move it back and forth a few degrees while maintaining a steady throttle, It's surprising how little effect changing the mV has on the fuel mix but if it's dropping right off who knows?
 

[radguzzi]

Ok, I am in Southbury, Conn for the night, good wifi and on the iPad, not my phone.. Lol... I need to update you all on conditions.

I had mentioned that the symptoms of stumbling were greatest when the tank was ini the lower third well that has proved not to be the case as I monitored the conditions all day long.  It still happens everywhere Except when I am hammering the throttle, passing a truck or cruising at 80+ mph.  Now I could do that all day long but we know the law of averages especially with the law...     anyway.

Yes, probably a combination of TPS, fuel delivery or more issues, who the Hell knows right now but I will find out and report back.

To add insult to injury I escorted a huge cell of nasty thunder storms across part of N Y and I pulled into Southbury to both look for a room and just get out of that torrent.  It was Biblical, I kid you not.  Leading further that if I have open wire coverings or shorting issues that might be exsaserbated by flooding rains then that could become very dangerous.  Of course hitting the Nutmeg State at rush hour...

On an up side I found the Nelson Riggs rain gear more than up to the task. 

So, I will be home tomorow and I will start in on the fuel filter, have my local m/c shop guy that is good with the electronics diagnosis start in on it and straighten her out.

Again, I want to thank each and every one of you for the help, I did not answer all PMs and I apologize, things have been a tad hectic from the cockpit.

Know that I very much appreciate you taking time to help out.

More later.

Best,
Rob

[ITSec]

I think it is time for me to send in my 2015 support to WildGuzzi.

Let me know if you want one of the nifty oil sensor wiring kits I offered to all 2015 contributors....

[smdl]

These machines are getting old, and electrical connections are getting corroded. I've found that Wayne's magic Caig DeOxit on every electrical connector works wonders. Probably will fix that PC, too.
I've still gotta think that pulling the fuel petcock was the main culprit. Maybe water?

Side question: what form of Caig DeOxit works best? Spray?  Pin applicator?

Best of luck Rob!

Shaun

[ITSec]

Power Commanders and airbox mods-I hate those on Guzzis.

Well, it may not work for everyone, but my 2008 Norge is the better for it... (PC-V w Autotune, wideband O2, open airbox w K&N, ECU remapped for full O2 control)

It does mean the owner needs to take a different mindset to operating and troubleshooting it.

[ITSec]

Guessing for late models ? Missed that , pretty  nice offer .

  Dusty

I created it for late models, but the offer is open to any who use the now discontinued GU31768780 sensor. Common on post 2005 big blocks, but may be used elsewhere...

See the thread at http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=77673.0

[Cam3512]

Rob,

http://hamlincycles.com

If you're still in Southbury, Jim Hamlin's Guzzi shop is 17 miles from you.  Worth a short ride for him to check it out.  He's got a great rep.

Cam

[gerryp]

Rob,

http://hamlincycles.com

If you're still in Southbury, Jim Hamlin's Guzzi shop is 17 miles from you.  Worth a short ride for him to check it out.  He's got a great rep.

Cam

Cam,

I was just going to post the same information.  I may be up there tomorrow.

Gerry

[radguzzi]

Thanks Cam and Gerry.  I contemplated givng them a call as the first few miles had the symptoms but I pressed on and then the damn thing ran flawlessly all the way to Maine,  three more tanks.   

I will still start going through it.

I am home.  :)

Best,
Rob

[Lash]

Moto Guzzi - A World of Friends! Congrats Rob!

[radguzzi]

Well the dust settled, we had another week's vacation where I did not touch the Guzzi... spent some quality time with Sue Ellen. 

This morning I put a new fuel filter on and changed the remaining fuel out completely, reexamined the fuel tap filter, clean as a whistle.

The test ride indicated a little bit of stumbling and bucking at take off, not extreme but still there and it tended to smooth out once underway.  I flew back home to reconnect the Power Commander and that made it absolutely un-rideable...!     I could hardly get back up the drive.  So that is out of the loop... forever.

So now what...  Disconnect the fuel pump and test it...?  Is there a way to actually test the pump...?

I am not a TPS type of guy so if it comes to that I will need to take it to a fellow that I trust here, Ducati and general Italian service guy.

More later.

I have other chores to do so this may have to take a back seat and get to it when I can.

Thanks,
Rob

[Chuck in Indiana]

Side question: what form of Caig DeOxit works best? Spray?  Pin applicator?

Best of luck Rob!

Shaun

Dunno.. I've never used anything except the spray. It's fixed a ton of electrical stuff for me, though..

[radguzzi]

Side question: what form of Caig DeOxit works best? Spray?  Pin applicator?

Best of luck Rob!

Shaun

Dunno.. I've never used anything except the spray. It's fixed a ton of electrical stuff for me, though..

Got it...  can't hurt.

Thanks,
rd

[wavedog]

I had a very similar issue with my jackal a while back. Same kinds of symptoms. I changed the fuel filter, cleaned the fuel tap, drained the gas, checked the tps , had a diagnostic run on the fuel injection and ignition, on and on. Turns out it was the spark plug caps. Put on a new set and all was well. Not saying that is the answer to your problem, but these kind of challenges can drive a person to distraction. Hope you get it fixed soon.

[rodekyll]

{snippity}

So now what...  Disconnect the fuel pump and test it...?  Is there a way to actually test the pump...?

{snip}

Thanks,
Rob

Pumps are rated by flow and pressure and the ability to 'lift' fuel.  In the hold-my-beer school if we can figure out pressure, flow and lift are implied.

So I'd put a pressure gauge on it and see if it maintains ~42# when the problem is occurring. 

[radguzzi]

I had a very similar issue with my jackal a while back. Same kinds of symptoms. I changed the fuel filter, cleaned the fuel tap, drained the gas, checked the tps , had a diagnostic run on the fuel injection and ignition, on and on. Turns out it was the spark plug caps. Put on a new set and all was well. Not saying that is the answer to your problem, but these kind of challenges can drive a person to distraction. Hope you get it fixed soon.

Thanks wavedog, I changed the plug caps, no go.  Good idea though. 

I also swapped the electronic fuel tap with the one from the Sporti that is off the road due to cosmetic upgrades (paint), no go there either.

Pumps are rated by flow and pressure and the ability to 'lift' fuel.  In the hold-my-beer school if we can figure out pressure, flow and lift are implied.

So I'd put a pressure gauge on it and see if it maintains ~42# when the problem is occurring. 

Yeah, I am not how I could watch a gauge with one in line to the pump...   the occurance is only while riding, not at idle.


After a couple of test rides following plug cap changes, fuel tap changes, the latest observation is that the stumble is just off idle while taking off in first gear, after that she tends to run right up and pull like normal, no skip, no stumble.  On decel, shifting down to turn up the rpms and throttle up there will be a slight hiccup and stumble.   

On the Caig DeOxit subject...

Does the Caig brand contain chemicals different than the CRC Brand QD Electronic Cleaner that I have here...? 

Isohexane, Difluoroethane, Ethanol, n-Hexane...

Thanks,
Rob

[Chuck in Indiana]

Does the Caig brand contain chemicals different than the CRC Brand QD Electronic Cleaner that I have here...? 

Isohexane, Difluoroethane, Ethanol, n-Hexane...

They don't tell you what's in it.  Neither does Coke..
It's prescribed by Dr. Wayne. That's good enough for me. As I mentioned, I can't tell you how many things I've fixed with it. The Kid fixed a $5000 (!) helicopter relay, too. A friend had a Countach that he'd put DiElectric grease in connectors. Practically nothing worked. All afternoon and and $17 can of DeOxit fixed it. <shrug>
Change out the TPS, like has been mentioned above.  :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu You North Easterners are hard headed. 

[Aaron D.]

Chuck is right, change the TPS, it is much easier than frigging with a pressure test on the pump, which is unlikely to be the culprit.