Author Topic: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms  (Read 28967 times)

Offline radguzzi

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #90 on: August 09, 2015, 06:49:58 PM »
They don't tell you what's in it.  :smiley: Neither does Coke..
It's prescribed by Dr. Wayne. That's good enough for me. As I mentioned, I can't tell you how many things I've fixed with it. The Kid fixed a $5000 (!) helicopter relay, too. A friend had a Countach that he'd put DiElectric grease in connectors. Practically nothing worked. All afternoon and and $17 can of DeOxit fixed it. <shrug>
Change out the TPS, like has been mentioned above.  :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu You North Easterners are hard headed.  :grin:

Geezus, take it easy there shipmate...  I am not hard headed, I just like take steps to run all this crap to ground.

I do not have the expertise to just swap out a TPS so I am doing what I can prior to taking it to someone who can... dayum.

And I get it with the Caig, all the usual outlets are closed on Sundays so I will try to procure the DeOxit tomorrow. 

Patience grasshopper.   :bow:

Best,
rd


 

Current:
2004 EV Touring
'99 EV Hack
'76 V1000 'Vert
'80 SP 1000
2013 Harley FLHTC
'75 Triumph T160 Trident
'78 Triumph T140V Bonneville
'78 Yamaha XS 650
'88 Honda Hawk GT
'84 RZ350 KR
'71 Dalesman Trials

A VeeDub and an MGB...

The Journey is the Reward

Offline smdl

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Re: Engine cutting out. On the road in Tenn / now Virginia
« Reply #91 on: August 09, 2015, 08:51:30 PM »
Dunno.. I've never used anything except the spray. It's fixed a ton of electrical stuff for me, though..

Thanks, Chuck.  I've ordered some!

Shaun
'74 Eldorado Civilian
'17 V7 III Stone
'21 Aprilia Tuono 660
'22 V85TT Guardia D'Onore
'22 V85TT Guardia D'Onore (Yep, two)

Offline Rich A

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #92 on: August 09, 2015, 08:56:41 PM »
You're not supposed to do this as it is not the most accurate way to do it, but I set the TPS on my Jackal, which was misfiring, using Guzzidiag, and now the bike is running fine.

(Before doing this I compared the TPS reading I got with a VOM against the Guzzidiag number. Then I installed the new TPS using the Guzzidiag value).

Rich A

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #93 on: August 09, 2015, 10:31:31 PM »
I agree that he pump pressure is probably not the problem.  But the question was how to test it, not was it a productive thing to do.   :smiley:

As far as the problem with reading the gauge while riding -- try a longer hose so the gauge can be taped to the handlebar.  You can easily replace the oil light sender with a banjo and run the hose off of that.

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #93 on: August 09, 2015, 10:31:31 PM »

Offline Ronkom

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #94 on: August 09, 2015, 10:54:04 PM »
Hey Rob,
I came across a purple water bottle festooned with stickers in my garage. I assume it's yours. Where shall I send it?
Ron
THE MOTRESYKLMAN
 Restore, Repair, Accessorize, Buy, Sell & Trade Exotic, Unusual, or Interesting Motorcycles. Guzzi Wrench 35+ years

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #95 on: August 10, 2015, 06:32:32 AM »
You're not supposed to do this as it is not the most accurate way to do it, but I set the TPS on my Jackal, which was misfiring, using Guzzidiag, and now the bike is running fine.

(Before doing this I compared the TPS reading I got with a VOM against the Guzzidiag number. Then I installed the new TPS using the Guzzidiag value).

Rich A

GuzziDiag gave me a reading of zero MV when I'd set Rosie's TPS with a voltmeter to 150 MV. IIRC, it would read 0, and the next higher number would be *well* over 150.. I can see why they say don't do that.  :grin:
What you did sounds right to me, but I'm certainly no expert..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
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Offline Groover

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #96 on: August 10, 2015, 08:08:50 AM »
I can also vouch for Deoxit. You can find it at large computer stores and/or large music stores carry it too. There are a few different types depending on application, but probably the more common one that you'll find (and that I've used) is the D5.

Here is the full list:

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.188/.f

Also, I've used ACF-50 for stuff like this and it works just as well (a little more messy however)

http://www.amazon.com/Lear-Chemical-ACF50-Anti-Corrosion-Lubricant/dp/B000P1C8UO

As far as the TPS goes, I know nothing about it and just learned that it means Throttle Position Sensor and it is NOT a reference to the movie "Office Space"  :tongue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy3rjQGc6lA

Hope you can figure out what the problem is soon!
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 08:10:59 AM by Groover »
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #97 on: August 10, 2015, 11:15:51 AM »
When you changed the plug caps was the HT lead solid core or the resistor core type?
My EV was the carbon stuff and it burnt out at the coil end.

It only takes a couple of minutes to check the TPS, do you have the large P8 ECU or a small one?
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline radguzzi

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #98 on: August 10, 2015, 11:48:13 AM »
Hey Rob,
I came across a purple water bottle festooned with stickers in my garage. I assume it's yours. Where shall I send it?
Ron

Hey Ron,
Nah, don't send it but thanks...  use it for a fuel collection canister.   :laugh:

I will send your spare relays here this week.

Thanks,
Rob


When you changed the plug caps was the HT lead solid core or the resistor core type?
My EV was the carbon stuff and it burnt out at the coil end.

It only takes a couple of minutes to check the TPS, do you have the large P8 ECU or a small one?


Well the core is stranded wire...  If I can come up with the nerve I will check the TPS, I have studied the procedures that you guys have made reference to and I should be able to do it.  What's the worst that could happen...?   :shocked:

Small ECU, 2001 V11 California.



I can also vouch for Deoxit. You can find it at large computer stores and/or large music stores carry it too. Hope you can figure out what the problem is soon!

Thanks,
Rob



I too ordered some along with a sealer that they recommend to use after the cleaner.  I could not find it locally so Amazon won.

Thanks,
Rob
Current:
2004 EV Touring
'99 EV Hack
'76 V1000 'Vert
'80 SP 1000
2013 Harley FLHTC
'75 Triumph T160 Trident
'78 Triumph T140V Bonneville
'78 Yamaha XS 650
'88 Honda Hawk GT
'84 RZ350 KR
'71 Dalesman Trials

A VeeDub and an MGB...

The Journey is the Reward

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #99 on: August 10, 2015, 12:33:31 PM »
Even if you don't adjust it measure the Voltage from the TPS to chassis, open the throttle slowly and the Voltage should ramp up slowly from around 400mV to 4.5 Volts also, no sudden changes. Tell me which ECU you have and I will identify the wire. The old P8 ECUs are easy because you can just take the back off the connector for the other type I usually suggest poke a sewing pin through the wire.
72 Eldorado
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76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline radguzzi

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2015, 01:19:02 PM »
Even if you don't adjust it measure the Voltage from the TPS to chassis, open the throttle slowly and the Voltage should ramp up slowly from around 400mV to 4.5 Volts also, no sudden changes. Tell me which ECU you have and I will identify the wire. The old P8 ECUs are easy because you can just take the back off the connector for the other type I usually suggest poke a sewing pin through the wire.

Ok, well that sounds simple enough that even I could do it...  I rode something else to work today so I will look as soon as I get home for the model of the brain.

Thanks,
Rob
Current:
2004 EV Touring
'99 EV Hack
'76 V1000 'Vert
'80 SP 1000
2013 Harley FLHTC
'75 Triumph T160 Trident
'78 Triumph T140V Bonneville
'78 Yamaha XS 650
'88 Honda Hawk GT
'84 RZ350 KR
'71 Dalesman Trials

A VeeDub and an MGB...

The Journey is the Reward

Offline Rich A

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2015, 01:32:03 PM »
When I measured the TPS at the connector, I used short pieces of guitar string (unwound) as the probes. Had to use some needle nose pliers and cuss words to get them seated, but that worked.

I got my replacement TPS from CA Cycleworks. Good folks to deal with.

Rich A

Offline radguzzi

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2015, 01:59:13 PM »
When I measured the TPS at the connector, I used short pieces of guitar string (unwound) as the probes. Had to use some needle nose pliers and cuss words to get them seated, but that worked.

I got my replacement TPS from CA Cycleworks. Good folks to deal with.

Rich A

That's a good idea Rich...  I can change the strings on one of the acoustics, use a B or E string.   If the connectors on the TPS have small holes in the tabs then I could use twist lock wire pliers to make a strand... although getting it of the tab might be a problem.


BTW, what I saw of your State while passing through was gorgeous, enough that Sue and I will go back for a longer stay one of these days.

Thanks,
rd
Current:
2004 EV Touring
'99 EV Hack
'76 V1000 'Vert
'80 SP 1000
2013 Harley FLHTC
'75 Triumph T160 Trident
'78 Triumph T140V Bonneville
'78 Yamaha XS 650
'88 Honda Hawk GT
'84 RZ350 KR
'71 Dalesman Trials

A VeeDub and an MGB...

The Journey is the Reward

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2015, 03:19:55 PM »
The wires from telephone cable are about the right size but the pins from an old computer serial cable are perfect. Cut the plug apart and rescue a couple of pins with wire attached.

That's ok for measuring Ohms but the best method is to measure Volts with the key On.

Poke a pin through the wire going to pin 11, I think its Black/Violet
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2015, 03:26:51 PM »
I've got a few tens of thousands of those bare pins if anyone needs a few.  But the sewing pin solution works perfectly, too. 

Offline smdl

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #105 on: August 10, 2015, 03:32:12 PM »
I'm not sure if it is exactly the same for V11 California, but there is a company that makes a nice little break-out harness for the TPS on the V11 Sport/Le Mans:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18052&hl=%2Btps+%2Bharness

Might be the same on your bike.

It makes testing a little easier.  I bought one, and it arrived within a few days.  Sure, I could have done without, or could have made my own, but this was quick, easy and convenient.

Cheers,
Shaun
'74 Eldorado Civilian
'17 V7 III Stone
'21 Aprilia Tuono 660
'22 V85TT Guardia D'Onore
'22 V85TT Guardia D'Onore (Yep, two)

Offline radguzzi

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #106 on: August 11, 2015, 07:04:39 AM »
I'm not sure if it is exactly the same for V11 California, but there is a company that makes a nice little break-out harness for the TPS on the V11 Sport/Le Mans:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18052&hl=%2Btps+%2Bharness

Might be the same on your bike.

It makes testing a little easier.  I bought one, and it arrived within a few days.  Sure, I could have done without, or could have made my own, but this was quick, easy and convenient.

Cheers,
Shaun

Thanks for that Shaun...  The Breakout Connector will make the testing easier, especially for the amateur like me.  I am not a Luddite but I have avoided learning the procedures required for the FI/ECU equipped Guzzis that I own.  I need to get on the stick and jump in to figure this stuff out.

Thanks,
Rob


Current:
2004 EV Touring
'99 EV Hack
'76 V1000 'Vert
'80 SP 1000
2013 Harley FLHTC
'75 Triumph T160 Trident
'78 Triumph T140V Bonneville
'78 Yamaha XS 650
'88 Honda Hawk GT
'84 RZ350 KR
'71 Dalesman Trials

A VeeDub and an MGB...

The Journey is the Reward

redrider

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Re: Engine cutting out. Now home, updates to symtoms
« Reply #107 on: August 11, 2015, 07:37:08 AM »
I used sewing needles in the backside of the connector where the wires go. A digital Fluke meter and a set of their clip on probes. My V11 had a stumble at around 3000-3500 rpm (70 mph or so) after a TPS swap to cure said stumble. No help. I reset the Idle Fuel Trim from -20 to +25 and the problem disappeared. I went as high as +90 but that was a bit rich. I used the Centurion software for that but GuzziDiag is so much better at everything. I still have the replacement item as the stocker works beautifully now. If you mark a spot on the throttle handgrip that corresponds to the rpm bad spot, you can watch the TPS values as you roll through the marked area. I would wager a beer the TPS is OK.

 

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