Encountering multiple issues since March 2015 purchase...

[bobbyfromnc]

I have been encountering one issue right after another since I purchased my Norge in March 2015. I am certainly trying to remain optimistic.
1. Ran out of gas, problem underneath fuel tank... Parts ordered, mean while I refilled every 150 miles, went on a trip to Atlanta Ga and back, ran great no issues other than incorrect fuel level showing on gauge.

2. Upon returning from Atlanta I did a thorough cleaning and noticed oil on right cylinder near fuel intake, mean while parts to fix fuel gauge readings came in and I informed them of oil leaking on right cylinder, appointment set, for last Friday and they would look at that as well. It is a 200 mile round trip for me to dealership and back... really no big deal to me.

Went to the appointment, fuel gauge problem fixed, seems that during first service a gasket was compromised by dealership. Necessary parts will have to be ordered, they will call me to schedule this repair, fine no problem... Stuff happens.

Rode the bike back home, ran great, fuel gauge working accurately. Stopped at my normal gas stop to refuel. This is an older real service station so its not uncommon to smell gas there, so I thought nothing much of it. Put the bike up.

3. We had rain for two straight days here in NC on 25, 26 April 2015. Monday beautiful weather, I decide to ride so I go to where a buddy and myself share a space to keep our bikes. I smell gas before I get to the roll up door. Once inside I am greeted by a pond of gas. on floor underneath the bike. Stuff happens, not really mad but darn this is frustrating. Trying real hard to be optimistic, if this had happened 30 years ago I would be exploding over this. I'm trying really hard not to go there.

Dealership is closed on Mondays which is fine. So I send an email for them to read Tuesday.

Here is what I sent... What do you think?

(Service managers name), Good morning... I want to thank you for being most accommodating last Friday and to (sales Mgr) for the ride on the California. I had no issues riding home Friday and fuel gauge seems to be functioning accurately. When I filled up Friday where I normally do I did notice the smell of gas but its an old service station and really thought nothing of it. Parked the bike on center stand and locked up the storage facility and left.

As you know we had a wet weekend in NC, at least in my neck of the woods. So Monday morning about 10:00 I decided to take a ride. I share a building with a friend where we keep our bikes under lock and key with surveillance. When I walked up to the door I smelled the strong odor of gas. I opened the door and this is what I found... See Photos...

First and foremost know that I AM NOT ANGRY. Stuff happens and I am trying to be optimistic and truly hope this is not the beginning of a problematic trend with this bike, but instead just one of those freak events because stuff happens.

That being said with the bike having an issue with gasoline leaking. I am not comfortable riding it for two reasons, 1. whatever is leaking goes full tilt and leaving me stranded along the interstate. 2. the very remote possibility of a fire. I do not own a truck or trailer so that is not an option. So the way I see it that leaves two other choices. 1. (Dealership) sends someone to fix the leak here or 2. come get the bike, fix the leak and make sure its not leaking any further and hang on to the bike till the parts come in to fix the cylinder gasket that's leaking oil. Thus knocking out two birds with one stone.

Let me know what you want to do. I am willing to pay $$$$ towards gas.

Regards, (My Name)

[Brightblade]

Looks good to me.  Hope everything works out for you

[nc43bsa]

Where is the dealer?  In my neck of the woods?

[Wayne Orwig]

Looks like the dealer service made some mistakes. Hopefully they get everything right and you can start covering miles.

[canuguzzi]

Since you asked:

It isn't good form to thank people for something until everything is worked out. I don't see how they were most accommodating, you had problems, you left there and had more problems.

Too much information. They really don't care why you didn't ride the bike for a couple of days.

Why first and foremost tell them you aren't angry?

Why offer to pay for their gas? You have towing service that came with the bike. Regardless, never offer to pay for something until you are satisfied with the service.


Since you asked:

1. Recap the reason you went there in the first place.
2. State what wasn't either fixed or where repairs were done improperly
3. State what you want, in very specific terms.

The await their response.

You can do this with courtesy but you don't need to seem apologetic, thankful or anything else until you get the bike to where it should be and your satisfaction is realized.

Then, after all that is done, you can talk about money which at this point should involve you not paying a cent.

Service calls often go poorly because:

1. The customer fails to be very specific about what they want and when they want it.
2. The customer gets apologetic or otherwise put themselves as less than equal to the people doing the service
3. Heaping accolades before they are deserved
4. Offering to pay for something they should not pay for.

You have a brand new bike. If anything, the service manager should be the one offering to pick up your bike, at no cost to you and because while they had the bike there and tank off, they didn't also do a thorough going through to make sure someone who spent many thousands of dollars isn't sent on their way to experience yet more problems that could be easily avoided.

[bobbyfromnc]

Where is the dealer?  In my neck of the woods?

Charlotte area

[bobbyfromnc]

Since you asked:

It isn't good form to thank people for something until everything is worked out. I don't see how they were most accommodating, you had problems, you left there and had more problems.

Too much information. They really don't care why you didn't ride the bike for a couple of days.

Why first and foremost tell them you aren't angry?

Why offer to pay for their gas? You have towing service that came with the bike. Regardless, never offer to pay for something until you are satisfied with the service.


Since you asked:

1. Recap the reason you went there in the first place.
2. State what wasn't either fixed or where repairs were done improperly
3. State what you want, in very specific terms.

The await their response.

You can do this with courtesy but you don't need to seem apologetic, thankful or anything else until you get the bike to where it should be and your satisfaction is realized.

Then, after all that is done, you can talk about money which at this point should involve you not paying a cent.

Service calls often go poorly because:

1. The customer fails to be very specific about what they want and when they want it.
2. The customer gets apologetic or otherwise put themselves as less than equal to the people doing the service
3. Heaping accolades before they are deserved
4. Offering to pay for something they should not pay for.

You have a brand new bike. If anything, the service manager should be the one offering to pick up your bike, at no cost to you and because while they had the bike there and tank off, they didn't also do a thorough going through to make sure someone who spent many thousands of dollars isn't sent on their way to experience yet more problems that could be easily avoided.

Thanks for your input... Frankly I use to get upset to often as a young man... While I wont let someone run over me in the end I just don't wont to go to stroke land. I have learned you can catch more fly's with honey than S#@t. I go the nice route first. BK

[Chuck in Indiana]

You certainly can catch more flies with honey.
Probably, they didn't get the fuel pump plate tight enough. There is a really thick gasket, and it needs to be snugged up in a cross pattern a couple of times. *Not reefed on* just snugged up. That area wasn't particularly flat on my Norge.
Edit for a picture..

[brenwin]

Thanks for your input... Frankly I use to get upset to often as a young man... While I wont let someone run over me in the end I just don't wont to go to stroke land. I have learned you can catch more fly's with honey than S#@t. I go the nice route first. BK

I'm with Norge Pilot on this one . Very good , sound advise . They should be bending over backwards to get things right . Let them be the nice guys in this and if they aren't I would be surprised .
I think your patience and tolerance is to be admired under the circumstances .

Steve 

[ibis1]

Bobby, First let me say it's very commendable of you to not get worked up over your service. I have worked in the service department of a Land Rover dealership the past 20 years and agree people make mistakes. In almost all service departments there are good people, bad people and middle of the road people. Good conscientious people will make fewer. I fully agree with the poster that stated YOU should not be making any concessions, such as paying for gas. I have no idea how big that service department is (Number of Technicians) but the technician number should be on your invoice. I would look at both of your service invoices and see if the same tech did both jobs. If that's the case, sit down with the Service Manager, explain your frustrations calmly and ask that that technician not work on your bike anymore. Ask the manager to talk with the "new" technician and explain to him that you live 100 miles away and your last 2 visits resulted in additional repairs caused by careless work. Under your circumstances the Service Manager "should" be very accommodating. If for some reason he is not, ask to speak to the General Manager or owner. It's true sometimes that "The Squeaky Wheel Gets The Grease" but if they (Dealership Personnel) are decent people, they should address your concerns without a lot of drama. It's also important here to separate your service issues from Moto Guzzi issues. These were NOT manufacturers defects. Good luck. :BEER:   

[56Pan]

Bob,
  You're using the same dealership I am.  They picked my bike up today for the first service.  I had no one to bring me back home, so had them come get it but I'm only about 40m. away.  I've got the fuel level indicator problem like you had and the serv. mgr. talked with me on the phone about it. Said the level transmitter was on the fuel pump assy. inside the tank and he'd have to order parts. I hope they learned a lesson from the mistake on your bike and don't repeat it on mine.  In my opinion, hauling your bike back the 100 miles to fix a botched repair on warranty is on their dime.

[mach1mustang351]

1. The customer fails to be very specific about what they want and when they want it.

This was all great advise, but this it the part that hit home to me. I have worked in automotive for my whole working career. Every customer.we issue that escalated were issues I considered resolved and thought the customer was happy as well, but they really weren't.  People tend to come in and spill everything. Me: How can I help you? Them: I got home, the kids were crying, the dog was barking I had trouble finding my floor Jack, it started to rain, my wife was nagging me, I was hungry and my foot hurt.

Slightly exaggerated, but not really. What has helped me as a manager in these spots is I am not overly anxious to help. That sounds bad but let me clarify. I used to jump right on it, swap the part, offer an upgrade in quality etc. I would feel like that was a fair service but the customer would sometimes call back mad, complain later, call in a complaint to corporate. Now I listen to their story and say "what would you like me to do to make this right?" It would shock you how many times this gets you a deer in the headlights look. THEY DON'T KNOW!! They know they were mad, they know they want something but they don't know what. Once you can get a customer to be clear in their expectations the interaction can go smoothly.

Im not saying you are the deer in the headlights guy but just be clear with what you want and think is fair. I promise the service manager will appreciate it.

[bobbyfromnc]

This was all great advise, but this it the part that hit home to me. I have worked in automotive for my whole working career. Every customer.we issue that escalated were issues I considered resolved and thought the customer was happy as well, but they really weren't.  People tend to come in and spill everything. Me: How can I help you? Them: I got home, the kids were crying, the dog was barking I had trouble finding my floor Jack, it started to rain, my wife was nagging me, I was hungry and my foot hurt.

Slightly exaggerated, but not really. What has helped me as a manager in these spots is I am not overly anxious to help. That sounds bad but let me clarify. I used to jump right on it, swap the part, offer an upgrade in quality etc. I would feel like that was a fair service but the customer would sometimes call back mad, complain later, call in a complaint to corporate. Now I listen to their story and say "what would you like me to do to make this right?" It would shock you how many times this gets you a deer in the headlights look. THEY DON'T KNOW!! They know they were mad, they know they want something but they don't know what. Once you can get a customer to be clear in their expectations the interaction can go smoothly.

Im not saying you are the deer in the headlights guy but just be clear with what you want and think is fair. I promise the service manager will appreciate it.

After reading your comments and others... I suppose (I did) write to much. I should have stated simply, The bikes leaking gas, come get it and fix all issues that was repaired incorrectly. Call me when its ready.

[bobbyfromnc]

Bob,
  You're using the same dealership I am.  They picked my bike up today for the first service.  I had no one to bring me back home, so had them come get it but I'm only about 40m. away.  I've got the fuel level indicator problem like you had and the serv. mgr. talked with me on the phone about it. Said the level transmitter was on the fuel pump assy. inside the tank and he'd have to order parts. I hope they learned a lesson from the mistake on your bike and don't repeat it on mine.  In my opinion, hauling your bike back the 100 miles to fix a botched repair on warranty is on their dime.

Service manager has been nothing but helpful and willing to work this situation out. I'll keep you updated. I touched base with them, should be hearing from them soon. BK

[canuguzzi]

Here is what has worked for me over the past nearly 4 and a half decades of riding and using dealerships for service:

1. I give respect to the dealer, the people that work there including the service center folks.

2. I give them courtesy until it isn't returned and then when it isn't I simply speak in the language they understand. Some people just listen better when you speak to them the way they speak to you.

3. Unless I can't afford it, I buy accessories and things like that from my local to me dealer. They need to stay in business and if I don't buy stuff from them, asking them to stay in business is rather hypocritical IMHO. I know there are places like Harpers that can ship anywhere but they can ship them to my dealer too. The skids usually slide easier when they get greased.

If I happen to be close by, sometimes I stop in to say hello at the dealer. I'm not making friends, I'm solidifying business relationships. I don't get all cozy but I do sometimes go over future purchase plans, relay how the bike is running (to the tech that works on mine) and so on. Takes a few minutes while I buy a can of something from their vending machines.

4. When the bike goes in for service, I take along and give to the service writer a detailed list of what I want or need done. I don't diagnose anything, I describe in the case of a problem, the symptoms, when, where, how often and the effect as far as I can determine them. I leave it up to them to find the cause. I give them pictures if I have any. If someone else had a reported problem like it, I will include that info but I don't tell them how to do their job.

I also take a walk around pictures/video of the bike before service so that there are no questions about scratches or stuff like that.

5. I discuss when the service will be completed and ask that if it even remotely looks like it won't be done when expected, call, text or email me the day before.

6. When it comes to completion date, unless I am really pressed, I tell them I am flexible but then also give them the date to which I am flexible. This way we both know the happy date, the date I get the bike back and the date they get paid. I try never to pick up my bike on a Friday. Saturday is often swamped with prep work for bikes, scooters and the like sold. I like to pick up the bike early in the week so that if everything isn't right, I can get back in and the rest of the week is available to correct things. Nothing worse than getting your bike back on a Friday, head out for a weekend ride and have something not work right that was supposed to be fixed.

7. After the service write up, if possible I give a quick hello to the tech who will work on my bike. They'll know me because I visit once in a while to buy stuff and when possible say hi.

8. When they do a great job, everyone knows about it because I tell them so. I tell the tech, I tell the service manager and then then I also tell the GM and owner. The GM/Owner get it in writing. When it comes time for pay raises, it might help.

9. If I am dissatisfied, I am very specific about why. Since I was specific about what I wanted or needed, this is easy to do. Stuff happens but to me that means a part that was ordered wasn't the part received or a part failed. That isn't the fault of the service tech or the dealer. If the service wasn't performed properly, then I don't dance around it, I say it like it is. I don't jump the chain of command, I start at where the service started and go from there, each getting the opportunity to get things back on track.

Once in a while after a service, but not often, they get a food delivery, pizza, that sort of thing right at lunchtime. They know where it comes from and why.

None if this costs me very much although I might pay a little more for parts or accessories. I probably pay more for oils and stuff like that or retail for a new pair of gloves or boots but so what? In the end, I have always gotten more good service than poor and things seems to work better.

[Lannis]

Sort of got me thinking ... In this year of our Lord 2015, what do I expect when I go into a Nissan or Guzzi or John Deere dealership and spend $15,000 buy a brand new Versa or a Norge or a small 4WD tractor?

I expect the vehicle to be essentially right.   Not leaky or broken, but right.   

If I'm buying a used vehicle from someone off the street, I'm paying bottom dollar and I expect broken and busted stuff and parts to have to be ordered and I have to wait and I have to drive back and forth to a dealership and hear about how long it takes to ship parts while I DON'T have $15,000 in the bank I used to have and I DON'T have a vehicle to use.

If I'm buying a brand new vehicle from a dealership and I get home and it's broken and busted, I'd sort of expect not to have to lift a finger.   I'd expect the dealer to come fetch it, maybe leave me a loaner to ride, to fix it, and to bring it back to me, done right.   

I had a dealer do exactly this for me once and I was happy with it.   

Lannis

[56Pan]

Service manager has been nothing but helpful and willing to work this situation out. I'll keep you updated. I touched base with them, should be hearing from them soon. BK

Yeah, the serv. mgr. there is as good as they get, in my opinion.  You're getting a lot of very good advice from this thread.  We both are.  Now, as per Norge Pilot's words, I'm sorry I mail ordered the Agostini exhaust collector and the Mistral muffler.  Wouldn't have cost that much more and I wish I'd have bought it from the bike dealership.  It's just common sense that none of us can expect MG dealerships to stay in business if we don't patronize the dealerships.  Let me know how you make out, as they're likely changing out the fuel pump/level transmitter assy. on my Norge as I write this.

[LowRyter]

I hate to say it but I agree with Lannis. 

[LowRyter]

Dusty, roll the dice and make it a double.   ~;

[Lannis]

...... I agree with Lannis. 

According to Googlestats, this is the 1,118th most common phrase out of 3,456,821,002 phrases found on Internet searches in 2014 ....

Lannis

[lucky phil]

A friend of mine worked for the national distributor of a major Japanese brand here in Aus, initially as their Warranty technician/claims guy. I mentioned to him one day that the Japanese built bullet proof bikes and he replied no they build Dealer proof bikes:)
You have two issues related to dealer errors and one Is a major safety issue, they deserve a stern talking to.
Really though anyone that actually needs to rely on a dealer especially one that's quite a distance away shouldn't be buying anything italian unless you have the disposition of a saint.
I've been owning,working on,riding, and involved in racing italian bikes of many brands for over 30 years and unless you can provide your own tech support or as I said are on the Vatican list for elevation to saint hood then buy Japanese.
A bit like being a Land Rover lover, it's all well and good until it lets you down in the middle of nowhere, which it will, and you know you should have used your head and bought a Toyota Land Cruiser.
Ciao

Ciao

[canuguzzi]

Working on bikes can be fun and fulfilling no doubt but it isn't for everyone. Having something that isn't sorted or well designed and built isn't a privilege, its an insult, just like getting a cup of coffee that tastes like snot but because you are in some fine dining place, don't want to appear unrefined and tell them the stuff tastes like crap, giving it back to them and demanding they use coffee instead of whatever mess they found in an old sock.

I think there is a better thing than working on a bike unless it is your livelihood or you just like doing it, its riding one and not worrying about just how long that ride will last before I start looking for the one thing I should have brought along but didn't.

I was told once that it is always better to be pissed off than pissed on. A bike needing repair can get you pissed off quick enough, stuff happens. Paying hard earned money to fix something that shouldn't break or was supposed to be fixed but wasn't is called being pissed on.

Riding an Italian made bike or any other doesn't mean I signed up to be the pissee.