Tools they don't build like this anymore NGC

[canuck750]

While looking at an old milling machine I saw this on a shop floor, $150.00, complete with all spindle attachments and it works,

How could I pass this heavy lump of casting up, it's probably worth $50.00 in scrap steel alone



It's a Bear brake rotor lathe, distributed in Canada under then name Applied Power



I may never use it but it sure is a neat piece of kit

The mill turned out to be junk, not like this gem ::)

[Triple Jim]

Good job picking that up!  I'd love to have one of those myself.  I have a 12" lathe, but it's tough to get to both sides of the disk at the same time on mine.   :)

So what did the old milling machine look like?

[fotoguzzi]

 :drool

[canuck750]

Good job picking that up!  I'd love to have one of those myself.  I have a 12" lathe, but it's tough to get to both sides of the disk at the same time on mine.   :)

So what did the old milling machine look like?

I think the vertical mill sat outside for many years covered with a tarp, the bed was badly rusted, and I think that sadly it's only worth scrap, a shame that such a precision machine was left to rot :'( When I visited Moe at Cycle Garden he showed me his collection of old iron machines, really big machines, I don't have the room for anything big but if I did.....

[ibis1]

I used one of those back in the late 70's early 80's. then traded it in on an Ammco unit.  :BEER:

[Triple Jim]

I think the vertical mill sat outside for many years covered with a tarp, the bed was badly rusted, and I think that sadly it's only worth scrap, a shame that such a precision machine was left to rot :'( When I visited Moe at Cycle Garden he showed me his collection of old iron machines, really big machines, I don't have the room for anything big but if I did.....

One of the old factories here closed a while back.  There was a lathe with at least a 36" swing and 15' bed sitting out by the railroad tracks, completely rusted, for quite a while.  I hate seeing that stuff.  I've rented time on a lathe that size in the local steel fabrication shop.  It's still driven by a leather belt, and I was able to spin some 1/8" stainless into some special barrel lids on it.  The machines don't become worthless until the owner decides so.

The lathe:



The barrel lids:

[canuck750]

Now that's what I call a LATHE!!

Nice work on the custom aluminum lids

[Triple Jim]

Now that's what I call a LATHE!!

Nice work on the custom aluminum lids

Thank you.  That's actually 1/8" thick 304 stainless steel.

[canuck750]

Now that is even more impressive, I know a wee bit about stainless 304, it's damn hard to cut!

[Chuck in Indiana]

Not cut, formed..  :o Nice job.  ;-T Spinning is a lost art.
Here in the rust belt, there were *lots* of big tool room machines for sale cheap. Problem was, you needed 3 phase power *and* a serious rigger to move them. It cost more to move them than they were worth. By far.

[Triple Jim]

The lid starts out as a flat disk, and is clamped to the 1" thick steel die you see on the faceplate, with the smaller disk that has the tapered roller bearing in it, that's lying on the cross slide, next to the angle grinder.  A dead center in the tailstock goes in the roller bearing, and the plunger is tightened until the disk is clamped in place.



Then a spinning roller is held in the tool post instead of a cutting tool, and is used to force the outer edge of the flat sheet around the steel die.  It's amazing to see the flat sheet conform to the die, and come out with the finished part.  The angle grinder has a Scotchbrite disk on it, that I held on the spun lid while it was still turning in the lathe, to give it a decent looking finish.



Sorry for the hijack... I just got excited talking about old machinery, and this was probably my favorite so far.

Edit:  Right about the forming, Chuck.  I worked at a place that had a real spinning lathe and watched it done quite a few times.  It pays to pay attention to what's going on in the shop, even if you're not supposed to be "wasting time".   :D

[Chuck in Indiana]

<snapping suspenders> Back in the day, we had some production spinning at the lamp factory. I used to service that stuff, along with stamping tools. The cowl on the Great Lakes was spun  :o but I farmed that out. I'm pretty sure that it couldn't be done any more..

[normzone]

Wow. You're right about spinning parts - it's like black magic. Never done any machining, aside from a few hours on a mill, but as an inspector I had a lot of opportunities to learn about process capabilities. I groan and laugh when somebody proposes castings for the small quantity runs my employers do.

[Triple Jim]

I'm pretty sure that it couldn't be done any more..

Wow, amazing example of spinning.  Actually there are still several big spinning companies, and I'm sure a lot of smaller ones I don't know about.  But having the dies made and paying for the spinning isn't cheap, as I'm sure you can imagine.

[luthier]

I did a bit of spinning in my Gold and Silversmith course, albeit much smaller items spun in copper, brass or guilding metal. We made our own forms on the wood lathe and used big burnishing tools dipped in lanolin to move the metal, stopping several times to anneal the work. It's a great way to produce a batch of identical plates or bowls for enamelling etc.

[Lannis]

Wow. You're right about spinning parts - it's like black magic. Never done any machining, aside from a few hours on a mill, but as an inspector I had a lot of opportunities to learn about process capabilities. I groan and laugh when somebody proposes castings for the small quantity runs my employers do.

Well, that's here in THIS country with our labor rates.    Joji Kurian can tell me if I'm telling this wrong, but he was recounting the process of trying to replace a pair of cracked iron cylinders for a Triumph 3TA 350cc, unobtanium over there.   

A casting and forging shop up the road could take the old cylinders, make up a pattern, and cast and machine a new set of cylinders for about $90 ....  We wouldn't even imagine trying that here!

Lannis

[Chuck in Indiana]

Wow, amazing example of spinning.  Actually there are still several big spinning companies, and I'm sure a lot of smaller ones I don't know about.  But having the dies made and paying for the spinning isn't cheap, as I'm sure you can imagine.

Problem is, it takes a *really* big piece of aluminum. The last I knew, something like that was NLA, at least to ordinary mortals..  ;D

[Sasquatch Jim]

 Instead of spinning, sometimes sheet metal can be formed using explosives.  For instance a mold can be made, then the sheet metal laid over it.
 The outside of the sheet metal is covered with detonating sheet.  It is an explosive that is about as thick as heavy paper.  A cover is put over it and burried in sand.  When the paper is detonated, the metal is wrapped onto the mold to form the product.  Excess is trimmed away and the part is done.
 Excellent method for one of a kind fenders and such.  Much cheaper than making large pressing dies where only one or very few parts will be made.
 BTW I have used tho technique once to make an aluminum dome.  Successfully at that.

[normzone]

Well, that's here in THIS country with our labor rates.    Joji Kurian can tell me if I'm telling this wrong, but he was recounting the process of trying to replace a pair of cracked iron cylinders for a Triumph 3TA 350cc, unobtanium over there.   

A casting and forging shop up the road could take the old cylinders, make up a pattern, and cast and machine a new set of cylinders for about $90 ....  We wouldn't even imagine trying that here!

[Lannis], remember that I'm a QA guy in my day job. I'm not concerned about the cost, that's a secondary worry that comes after the primary worries of dimensional conformance and the ability of the outfit to stay on delivery schedule.

Castings are great where they're appropriate, but the houses that tell you they can make your complex parts cheap are only maybe right. As a matter of fact, when I toured the latest casting house I was involved with I saw finned cylinder heads being second opped. They wouldn't tell me who their customer was.

[Sasquatch Jim], detonating sheet? Are you pulling my leg? (goes and checks...) Nope, you're truthing...wow, that sounds like fun.

[tris]

There's still a company here in the UK spinning metal.
I had their bloke at trade show a while back explain to am engineering graduate what metal spinning was. She looked nonplussed that black skills still existed.
 Still they're logged away in my mental list of companies I might need

[Rusty goose]

US bi-metalic coins are made by using explosive welding. Really neet processes, a little out of reach for the average garage mechanic.

[normzone]

AND NOW I've just returned from the wikipedia article on explosive welding. You guys are as good for my mind as the Halfbakery (which has a lot more qualified brainy sorts than one would detect at first glance).

From wikipedia:

"A disadvantage of this method is that extensive knowledge of explosives is needed before the procedure may be attempted"

[Triple Jim]

From wikipedia:

" A disadvantage of this method is that extensive knowledge of explosives is needed before the procedure may be attempted. "

Clearly one can attempt this without any knowledge of explosives, so I fixed that sentence  in the article.    :)

[Sasquatch Jim]

 Yes, you can attempt explosive forming without extensive knowledge but your chances of success are considerably lower.
 Oh and your insurance company may cancel your coverage.  If you live near a population center you may also expect a visit from the BATF cowboys,
 possibly in the wee hours of the morning.