California 1400 Owners, would you buy it again?

[Kev m]

Yup, from a parking lot or garage standpoint the low center of gravity is a game changer.

I've owned 700+# bikes that felt lighter from the saddle than a < 600# bike for that reason.

But if you have to push it at some point you feel the difference.

Either way I'm not bench pressing a V7 so never mind a Cali or RK.

[rocker59]

I hate to admit this, but I demo'd a Chief Vintage when I demo'd the Scout.  I came away not liking the Scout and liking the Chief !!!

Basically, the Scout's seat is too low and pegs too far forward, though the engine/transmission/chassis was nice.

The Chief is a helluva nice touring cruiser with lots of room on the footboards, and a fantastic engine/transmission/chassis for the class.  Plus, you get the cool retro American art deco looks. 

Though heavy, the bike just felt "right", for some reason...

[boatdetective]

Not to drift- but i threw a leg over a Honda F6B and was shocked at the low center of gravity. As Kev pointed out, low CG can trump a significant amount of weight.  I'd like to test ride one some day.

[Kev m]

I hate to admit this, but I demo'd a Chief Vintage when I demo'd the Scout.  I came away not liking the Scout and liking the Chief !!!

Basically, the Scout's seat is too low and pegs too far forward, though the engine/transmission/chassis was nice.

The Chief is a helluva nice touring cruiser with lots of room on the footboards, and a fantastic engine/transmission/chassis for the class.  Plus, you get the cool retro American art deco looks. 

Though heavy, the bike just felt "right", for some reason...

No need to apologize for not liking something. The Scout is "right" sized to me, but the ergos are different between it and the Chief.

I LIKE the Chief too. It's hella comfortable and nice.

But like I said, FOR ME, it's a bridge too far, just like for others a Cali 1400 or a Stelvio might be a bridge too far.

[rboe]

I didn't take the Scout for a test ride but swung a leg over one after the Chief test ride. Meh, not too impressed (the Chief DID impress me, especially after a test ride last spring that was not so impressive). Probably unfair to compare the two bikes. For a bike the size of the Scout I think I would prefer my Griso or CB1100. The CB is about the same weight at the Griso, maybe even heavier, but she feels a LOT lighter on her feet and much better in tight twisty bits than the Griso

Test rides really open your eyes.

I suspect I won't ride the 1400 until the Not a Rally.

[Kev m]

I didn't take the Scout for a test ride but swung a leg over one after the Chief test ride. Meh, not too impressed (the Chief DID impress me, especially after a test ride last spring that was not so impressive). Probably unfair to compare the two bikes. For a bike the size of the Scout I think I would prefer my Griso or CB1100. The CB is about the same weight at the Griso, maybe even heavier, but she feels a LOT lighter on her feet and much better in tight twisty bits than the Griso

Test rides really open your eyes.

I suspect I won't ride the 1400 until the Not a Rally.

I've not ridden the CB, but did get a brief test on a Griso (felt a lot like my Buell).

I LOVED the Scout. Riding position, power, size, it was a "just right" type moment.

Yeah, it wouldn't be as comfortable as a Chief, but it felt pretty darn good to me.

Ironically certain Scout specs are a lot closer to said Buell than one might realize... weight, hp, torque figures are all very close.

MY only real complaint with the Buell is the riding position isn't ME....

[rboe]

I would be very keen on your impressions of the CB. From the sounds of it it probably would not be your cup of tea, but your opinion of it could be interesting.

[Kev m]

I would be very keen on your impressions of the CB. From the sounds of it it probably would not be your cup of tea, but your opinion of it could be interesting.

I would like to catch a ride on one.

IF I had to take a guess the riding position would be better (more upright), and I'd probably like it (there are few bikes I DON'T like, just some I prefer more).

I probably wouldn't like the motor, as I REALLY prefer twins.

But IF I had to have a Honda tomorrow, it's probably my first pic.

[LowRyter]

I hate to admit this, but I demo'd a Chief Vintage when I demo'd the Scout.  I came away not liking the Scout and liking the Chief !!!

Basically, the Scout's seat is too low and pegs too far forward, though the engine/transmission/chassis was nice.

The Chief is a helluva nice touring cruiser with lots of room on the footboards, and a fantastic engine/transmission/chassis for the class.  Plus, you get the cool retro American art deco looks. 

Though heavy, the bike just felt "right", for some reason...

If you liked the Chief, you'll be blown away by the Cal 14.  Really.

[rocker59]

If you liked the Chief, you'll be blown away by the Cal 14.  Really.

I've ridden the Cal 14.  It is a nice bike. 

[segesta]

The Chief is cool, but it also costs 20+% more than the California, right? While we're talking about comparisons...

[Kev m]

The Chief is cool, but it also costs 20+% more than the California, right? While we're talking about comparisons...

Cali 1400 Custom $15,490
Cali 1400 Touring $18,490

Chief Classic (naked) $18,999
Chief Vintage (windshield/bags) $20,999


So the naked Classic is 23% more than the Custom.
While the Vintage is only 13.5% more than the like equipped Touring.

Of course, the current up to $2k extra money Piaggio is throwing at the Calis widens that gap.

[boatdetective]

Good points. I am very impressed by the fit and finish of the 1400- especially when you consider the price. I never would've thunk that an Italian bike would be the value choice- but there you have it. I could say the same for Aprilias.

[Kev m]

Good points. I am very impressed by the fit and finish of the 1400- especially when you consider the price. I never would've thunk that an Italian bike would be the value choice- but there you have it. I could say the same for Aprilias.

To be FAIR, we should point out that is compared to Indian which is positioned as a top end brand.

Now compare to two Harley of similar size/position in the market.

Dyna Fat Bob - $15,699 black
Harley RK - $18,449 black

Cali 1400 Custom $15,490
Cali 1400 Touring $18,490

So the Custom is a couple hundred less than the Dyna, and the Touring is actually $41 MORE than the RK.

Though to be fair neither of those Harley prices includes ABS.

So if we equip them similarly with ABS/Security that adds $1190 to either bike and the prices change to

Dyna Fat Bob - $16,889 black
Harley RK - $19,639 black

Putting the Guzzis again in a position of the "value" leader, coming in $1150-1400 CHEAPER than even the Harleys.

That is impressive.

I WISH I could say I'd buy the Cali.

I'm not sure that I would. As a matter of fact, I'm leaning towards the Harleys right now.

I don't like the Cali 1400 Touring bags at all.

And I don't really care for the rear fender on most of them.

But IF I could get a combination of the Audace and Eldo, the full fender and traditional tail light of the Eldo, with the dark cast wheels, round headlight, pegs and black bits of the Audace, that MIGHT change my mind.

However if I have to take them as they sit it doesn't look good for the Cali for me.

[mtiberio]

...
But IF I could get a combination of the Audace and Eldo, the full fender and traditional tail light of the Eldo, with the dark cast wheels, round headlight, pegs and black bits of the Audace, that MIGHT change my mind.
...

a mashup of those two models would be nice...

[AH Fan]

To be FAIR, we should point out that is compared to Indian which is positioned as a top end brand.

Now compare to two Harley of similar size/position in the market.

Dyna Fat Bob - $15,699 black
Harley RK - $18,449 black

Cali 1400 Custom $15,490
Cali 1400 Touring $18,490

So the Custom is a couple hundred less than the Dyna, and the Touring is actually $41 MORE than the RK.

Though to be fair neither of those Harley prices includes ABS.

So if we equip them similarly with ABS/Security that adds $1190 to either bike and the prices change to

Dyna Fat Bob - $16,889 black
Harley RK - $19,639 black

Putting the Guzzis again in a position of the "value" leader, coming in $1150-1400 CHEAPER than even the Harleys.

That is impressive.

I WISH I could say I'd buy the Cali.

I'm not sure that I would. As a matter of fact, I'm leaning towards the Harleys right now.

I don't like the Cali 1400 Touring bags at all.

And I don't really care for the rear fender on most of them.

But IF I could get a combination of the Audace and Eldo, the full fender and traditional tail light of the Eldo, with the dark cast wheels, round headlight, pegs and black bits of the Audace, that MIGHT change my mind.

However if I have to take them as they sit it doesn't look good for the Cali for me.

Why not start with the Cali custom and build it the way you want............ that's what I did. Pay for what you want in the factory build.
PS. those top loader bags with or without liners are very good and easy to use.

Ciao.   8)

[Kev m]

AH - legitimate question.

The custom is a nice enough bike. And I have considered it as a starting point.

But the rest fender is a good sticking point and I'd already have to spend a lot to bring it up to spec in terms of bags, windshield, possibly seat, probably some form of top case etc.

Adding a fender, tail light, signals, etc is a breaking point to me.

[LowRyter]

AH,  Guzzi's offering $1500 rebates or $2000 trade in credit..... that puts them at a price advantage.  No, the Guzzi won't have the resale or the service outreach. 

[Kev m]

AH,  Guzzi's offering $1500 rebates or $2000 trade in credit..... that puts them at a price advantage.  No, the Guzzi won't have the resale or the service outreach. 

Uh, AH has one, he was talking to me, but his reply was mixed in my quote.

[lucian]

I agree with Ciao, I bought the custom as I did not want the hard luggage on the touring model, along with the extra metal protectors and non detachable weight. With the 3 plus thousand I saved I was able to add a corbin seat, guzzi passenger floors, Hepco and Becker qd leather bags on lockable  c bow mounts, also added the Guzzi 50 litre top box on the oem rear rack .Then, my smartest purchase,  a magnetic tank bag.  Now I have a "touring" set up as I wanted and still had 275 bucks left over to throw at a Garmin gps. If someone behind me doesn't like my rear fender, it doesn't bother me. I originally was not enamored by the plastic bits but on the other hand my brother just dished out 1600 dollars to have the fenders replaced on his heritage soft tail due to stone pitting from underneath that rusted up through the paint. I bet I could replace the cali fenders three times over for that money. I am not sure but I think the custom also comes with better rear suspension than the touring.

[Kev m]

Uh, his name isn't CIA...ohh never mind.

If I get a Cali I'll totally go with C-bows, that's a great set up.

But I don't care what someone ELSE ticks off the fender. If I don't like the way my bike looks it'll bug ME.

I haven't ruled out the Cali... It's just there are some hurdles to cross.

[lucian]

Seems like there is starting to be some low mileage cali 14's out there for even cheaper money. Just  a thought.

[rocker59]

But I don't care what someone ELSE ticks off the fender. If I don't like the way my bike looks it'll bug ME.

I haven't ruled out the Cali... It's just there are some hurdles to cross.

I feel the same way.  Although I really respect Miguel Galluzzi as a designer, so far his work at Guzzi has left me wanting.  The rear fender and tail light on the Cal 14 just doesn't appeal to me at all.  Don't really care for the headlight, either.  I do like that they are going back to a round headlight on the Audace version of the Cal 14.  This is hard for me to say, but I almost long for Luciano Marabese's hand and the Bassa/Special/Late EV fender and tail light design.

[Kev m]

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

Don't get me wrong. I'm well aware I'm picky and there's a lot to like.

But I think they took too many liberties with the lines and design, and there should just be a few more traditional touches.

Like I said the Audace and the Eldo are both close. I just want to merge them.

[Waltr]

  If anyone thinks they will have a lot better resale on a lake model H-D you may be surprised.  They have sold so many bikes that the numbers just are not there.  Anyone who buys and sells short is hurt because the price of the bikes are too close to a new bike.
 

[arveno]

I feel the same way.  Although I really respect Miguel Galluzzi as a designer, so far his work at Guzzi has left me wanting.  The rear fender and tail light on the Cal 14 just doesn't appeal to me at all.  Don't really care for the headlight, either.  I do like that they are going back to a round headlight on the Audace version of the Cal 14.  This is hard for me to say, but I almost long for Luciano Marabese's hand and the Bassa/Special/Late EV fender and tail light design.

galluzzi can't even get close to Marabese, designer of the V11 Sport , V10 centauro , breva 750/1100 , griso , Norge.

Also Triumph speed triple and tiger 1050.\ and Morini Granpasso.

Hat off to Marabese design.



(fixed quotes) R59

[Kev m]

  If anyone thinks they will have a lot better resale on a lake model H-D you may be surprised.  They have sold so many bikes that the numbers just are not there.  Anyone who buys and sells short is hurt because the price of the bikes are too close to a new bike.
 

Sure Harleys don't command the same or more than new they once did when there was a waiting list, but come on they don't depreciate like lead balloons as some of our dearest Guzzis do.

So yeah, you'll still have a lot better resale on the Harley. Hell, just the fact that you have thousands of potential buyers instead of three helps.... ;)

[Adk.IBO]

So yeah, you'll still have a lot better resale on the Harley. Hell, just the fact that you have thousands of potential buyers instead of three helps.... ;)

What three!? Where!? What's your cut? :o




(fixed quotes) R59

[Waltr]

  The resale on Harleys is very dependent on the dealers support the brand receives in the area. IN area's where dealers have had a hard time from braking away from the 90's mentality of take it or leave it and gouging customers with shoddy business practices the resale suffers.  Indian has come along and is highly capitalizing on this. Believe me Piaggio has noticed and is attempting to follow, its a hard road, just look at what is being talked about here.  If by any stretch of the imagination anyone can come away and think the California 1400 is not a superior bike to a Harley they have never owned a Harley.   How many people do you think EVER left a Electra Glide stock as far as performance goes. For those that have tweeked the performance of the H-D touring cruisers how many people would agree they are not 100% satisfied in the way the bike runs. 
  There is one SERIOUS problem with H-D and even Indian and some Jap bikes.  There engines are no longer built to perform over a wide power band, they run cams with almost no overlap and duration,and worse than that there are not geared correctly. They are geared to be quiet going past a microphone.  The California is a performance beast right out of the gate, 257 degree intake duration and 241 degree exhaust duration with 32 degrees of overlap, and like all Guzzi's is geared correctly. Now I will let everyone carry on tail lights and the shape of the saddlebags and how great the Motor Company is.
     

[Kev m]

 The resale on Harleys is very dependent on the dealers support the brand receives in the area. IN area's where dealers have had a hard time from braking away from the 90's mentality of take it or leave it and gouging customers with shoddy business practices the resale suffers.  

I can't talk about Gettysburg PERSONALLY, but I have 20 years of experience with the dealers and the market in Chester County PA and the immediate surrounding area. Not to mention constant feedback from friends around the country that suggest that experience is not atypical.

There are good and bad dealers of all brands. And there were certainly Harley dealers in the 90s who gouged customers (Mike's Famous for instance, but he got his come-uppance in the end). At the same time there were dealers who sold at MSRP and didn't add a THING to the bikes, even as far back as the 90s. And there are a ton of dealers in this area - I mean from my old home in Kennett there were 3-4 within 20 minutes, and about 8-10 within an hour.

Maybe that's helped to keep resale so relatively high. That's not to say they don't depreciate. It's just that they hold their values well, much better than anything Asian and many things Euro (especially Guzzi).

If by any stretch of the imagination anyone can come away and think the California 1400 is not a superior bike to a Harley they have never owned a Harley.   How many people do you think EVER left a Electra Glide stock as far as performance goes. For those that have tweeked the performance of the H-D touring cruisers how many people would agree they are not 100% satisfied in the way the bike runs.

I really hate such ridiculous generalizations.

I LIKE the Cali 1400 that I rode (FBF's).

I THINK I LIKE the 14 RK that I rode shortly after more.

I certainly LOVED the 96 RK I owned and put 65k miles on in 2.5 years.



ALL of that was with stock pipes, about 50k of that was with stock mapping, the rest with only a SE air cleaner and dealer reflash.

It, like the Jackal with the same Weber-Marelli EFI non-feedback system, was one of the best running bikes I've ever owned. MUCH better than say my 06 Breva 1100 which pinged maddeningly from the factory and never ran right until I broke down and paid Guzzitech for a reflash.

As for tweaking a bike or not, how many people leave ANY bike stock?

I'm probably in the minority as I TEND to run OEM maps and exhaust systems because I prefer to buy a bike that fits my needs in the first place and I don't feel compelled to try and see if I can hot rod it for more. If I wanted more, I'd just buy more out of the gate.

I'll add that my current Harley runs great as well, though I have no real complaints about how my V7 or the Duc runs either.

There is one SERIOUS problem with H-D and even Indian and some Jap bikes.  There engines are no longer built to perform over a wide power band, they run cams with almost no overlap and duration,and worse than that there are not geared correctly. They are geared to be quiet going past a microphone.  The California is a performance beast right out of the gate, 257 degree intake duration and 241 degree exhaust duration with 32 degrees of overlap, and like all Guzzi's is geared correctly.      

I don't know that everyone agrees with you. There were a number of people regearing their Tonti Calis over the years. Hell, I seem to remember a number of people complaining that top gear was useless until 70 or 80 mph. I wouldn't assume that is "geared correctly" than. My Breva 1100 was geared similarly tall, for some reason taller than the Norge, on which you would think owners would be more motivated to run highway rpms for long periods of time than a Breva.

I think at the end of the day we do often ourselves dis-service generalization too much and assuming it applies to everyone and everything in the category, bike, brand, or rider.

Now I will let everyone carry on tail lights and the shape of the saddlebags and how great the Motor Company is.

 ::)

Why can't we ever just factually examine the strengths and weaknesses of different bikes without someone taking it personally and getting all wadded up on some level.