Annoyingly she does not like starting when she gets hot

[jdgretz]

I thought I had this figured out, but sadly no.

The Norge has started being finicky when the dash temperature is reading over 100.  Now last summer when the ambient temp was 105 or higher, there was no issue.  But, if I get stuck in stop and go traffic for a while (like the better part of an hour) and I shut the bike off, she will not restart until the temp gauge drops into the mid to low 90s.  I know it's supposed to be reading the outside air temp, but I'm guessing the temp sensor is reading the heat near the engine.

If it won't start (the dreaded click-no-start) I simply pull out my book and read for about 35 minutes and all is well again.  Very annoying.

I have one of the MPH kits, but mine must be wired wrong as when I installed it, nothing worked and I got a bunch of errors.

Last time this happened (couple of months ago) I found the battery bolts could be tightened up a bit (using a Motobatt MBTX16U rather than the YUASA YTX20CH-BS I had been using) and have not had an issue until yesterday.  I tried tightening the bolts, but they were tight.  The Motobatt is 250 cca vs. 270 for the YUASA.

The on board volt meter shows 12.1v when it decides not to start, going down to 11.x when I punch the button.  After setting a bit, it may show as much as 12.7 when she decides to then fire up.  The voltmeter then show 12.8 or better when running.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

jdg  

[Wayne Orwig]

I have one of the RPM kits, but mine must be wired wrong as when I installed it, nothing worked and I got a bunch of errors.

Do you mean the MPH kit?

When you try to start, do you get just a 'faint' click under the seat? Or a louder CLUNK from the starter.

If a faint click, then you need a Startus Interuptus fix like MPH sold (sells). Or get someone familiar to hand wire a fix. Or you can clean ALL connections, fuses and the ignition switch for a temporary fix. You maybe even clean and lube the solenoid.

[jdgretz]

You're right - fat fingers strike again - it's the MPH kit.

Actually I can't hear any click (comes from flying helicopters for the Army for a bunch of years and being a musician), but there is no thunk one would get from the solenoid being activated.

My assumption is that when the engine is hot that it needs more juice to crank (although why I have no idea), and that if the MPH kit worked it might solve my problems.  I'll do a search for Startus Interuptus, as I couldn't find that old thread before.

Thanks,

jdg

[Wayne Orwig]

Actually I can't hear any click (comes from flying helicopters for the Army for a bunch of years and being a musician), but there is no thunk one would get from the solenoid being activated.

Listen carefully under the seat. Maybe even pull off the seat. It is a faint click when you press the start button.
If you aren't even getting that faint relay click under the seat, then it is NOT the startus interruptus.

[Chuck in Indiana]

 

The on board volt meter shows 12.1v when it decides not to start, going down to 11.x when I punch the button.

Sounds like a bad battery to me.

Wayne said

If a faint click,

Are you serious? A helicopter driver/musician??  ;D

[Tom]

Basic Auto Electrics 101.  Check and clean connections.  Check and load test battery.  Check ground strap for connection.  Sometimes the easiest to fix is the problem.  Just a reminder.  Easy to overthink it.   :wife:   ;D

[jdgretz]

Sounds like a bad battery to me.

Wayne said

Are you serious? A helicopter driver/musician??

  ;D

It gets worse, Chuck, steel guitar and bass.  At least it's not an accordion.  :BEER:

jdg

[biking sailor]

My 1200 Sport, with the startus interuptous wiring done, still had some starting issues just like what is described here.  Except voltage didn't drop, or even change, when the starter button was hit, and I could hear no click even with the seat off, but never had it do it in a quiet garage (go figure).  Most of the time after a few tries or cooling off period, it would then crank. Longest time it did it was 100 degree day after a several hour ride and hooking a good battery to it made no difference.  I checked everything I could think of, even a potential sticking tip over switch?  Could never duplicate it in a controlled environment, like my garage with real tools available.

What I did was wire in a cheap push button starter switch from an auto parts store (housed in PVC stuff with a fuse holder in line) that ran straight from the battery + to the starter solenoid.  Worked fine when tested in the garage, but I never had to use it again in an actual no start situation (again, go figure). But having this option did give me piece of mind when traveling by myself. (Without a pretty steep hill handy, bump starting that heavy bike was a no go for me by myself. I did try more than once just to see if I could do it.)

[auzziguzzi]

The on board volt meter shows 12.1v when it decides not to start, going down to 11.x when I punch the button.  After setting a bit, it may show as much as 12.7 when she decides to then fire up.  The voltmeter then show 12.8 or better when running.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

jdg 

Hi JD

the symptoms you describe are exactly the same as my 2006 Norge (original battery and 55,000 miles).  I get the faint click under the seat for about 4 seconds then the relay releases and the voltage climbs back to normal.   No startus though.

Two factors which have made the greatest improvement to the hot starting of my Norge have been :

A)  clean and tight battery terminals
B)  clean and tight spade terminal behind and under the starter motor (difficult to get to without removing the starter)

I guess any dirty terminal along the wiring path will detrimentally affect the ability of the solenoid to throw in though.

John.

[mphcycles]

Jd I thought we solved this last year . call me and lets get it sorted out

[lucian]

Oh sorry ,I didn't realize "she" is a motorcycle.

[jdgretz]

I will call you Wednesday.   Thanks

Jdg

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Kiwi_Roy]

I'm not familiar with the Norge but doesn't it have a low Voltage interlock with cranking?

Cleaning the ignition switch may help, the grease goes hard holding tension off the contacts, less tension = more resistance = lower Voltage.

It could be temperature sensor/ECU related, if you can find the sensor you could experiment by heating it up with a hair dryer, I suspect it's in the air ducting or air box.

To determine if it's too much Voltage drop in the start circuit wiring take a small lamp and wire it to the solenoid trigger terminal and chassis so it will just take a glance if it happens again. The solenoid coils pull a massive 50 Amps for a split second, it only takes a fraction of an Ohm to upset that.

The battery terminals can be tight but not making contact, scrape them clean and smear on a little Vaseline, that will stop Lead Oxide (an insulator) forming.

Check where the battery ground connects to the chassis also, a little Vaseline there won't do any harm.

I think you may need to snip the yellow wire going to relay 3 and power it directly from the battery instead of it going back and forth through the ignition switch and fuse B like it does but check a few other things first.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2007_Norge.gif