1000 sp 1980... Clutch Siezed?

[whyrichard]

Hello Guzzi Peeps!!!!

I am super excited to get back on my 1000sp... Rode the thing cross country four times over the past twenty years, and now that my kids are slightly older I am rekindling my guzzi lust....!!!!

I need some advice...

So i haven't started my 1980 1000sp in two years. 

I prepped it and made sure all was well, and I it started right up and idled perfectly. 

However I pulled in the clutch (I thought), dropped it into 1st gear, and it lurched forward as if the clutch was stuck engaged. 

This, despite the clutch feeling like it is disengaging... there is resistance at the clutch lever, however I realized that the clutch is not disengaging when I pull it in. When putting it into gear and pulling in the clutch, it won't roll.

Question for you wise guzzi lovers...

How can i get my clutch unstuck??? Hitting the side with a hammer??? How to free up a seized clutch? Am I due for a rebuild??

Any suggestions??? I am at about mechanic level... 2.5 of 10. 

Thanks!
Richard

[lucian]

I would try starting it in neutral , get her rolling ,down an incline would make it easier, then click it into first gear and ride around with the clutch lever pulled in until it breaks free. On and off with the  throttle to shock it a bit. Sounds like the clutch plate has bonded to the flywheel, happens on my willis jeep I use only in the winter for a snowplow, sits all summer and this method always worked for me.
 of course if the spines have rusted it maybe time for a looksee. The method above will do no harm if that's the case and may just break her loose.

[bmc5733946]

Other threads on this forum with many suggestions. Use the search function at top right, search "stuck clutch".
Not being snarky just so many suggestions available.

Brian

[Lannis]

Could be that the actuating rod has bored its way through the throwout bearing.   You'd still feel some resistance but the rod has nothing to push against, and the clutch stays engaged ....

Lannis

[wirespokes]

Most likely the plates have bonded together - a little dampness and next thing you know, they're stuck together.

Get it rolling either roll start or like lucian suggests. Never tried it that way - I'd be concerned about grinding the gears.

I had an old Volvo that did that a couple of times. Started it up in first and drove half a block with the clutch in before it broke loose. An old airhead did it once also, and I did the same thing to free it up.

[whyrichard]

Anyone in the NYC area, specifically Queens, which may be able to give me a hand with this? I live in an urban area, so finding a place to ride around without the clutch is a little... precarious...

should I try the mineral oil trick? been only a year or two since I rode it...

thanks,
Richard

[acguzzi]

could try starting it on the center stand and then apply the rear brake with the clutch pulled in.

[wirespokes]

I've been told it's a strain on the UJoint running the bike on the center stand. A better idea would be rollers like for starting a race bike. Maybe wait till the middle of the night? Does traffic ever thin out there?

[Groover]

Would letting the engine get hot help matters ? Might blow the coils in the process if at idle too long, so maybe keep a slightly higher RPM?

[lucian]

I've been told it's a strain on the UJoint running the bike on the center stand. A better idea would be rollers like for starting a race bike. Maybe wait till the middle of the night? Does traffic ever thin out there?

      Perhaps you could put it on the center stand and use a ratchet strap to raise the swing arm up to a normal angle, thus protecting the u joint,  and then start her up in gear, with clutch lever pulled in and try giving it the rear brake as was mentioned.  It won't provide as much shock to the clutch plates as riding it would but it's certainly worth a try.

[wirespokes]

As I recall, the angle on the stand isn't good for it, but it's also the uneven firing driving the wheel with no rolling resistance. It can hammer the ujoint.

I don't know if it's ever been shown this actually harms the joints or whether it's conjecture. I only heard it as a possibility, and considering the cost of a ujoint and the trouble they can cause, I think I'll be as nice to mine as I can.

I got a project bike from Long Island that could have possibly been through hurricane Sandy (conjecture on my part since I have no history with the bike). The bike wasn't corroded or rusty and actually looked pretty decent. I got the engine running but determined the clutch was stuck. I started it up in gear and rode it up the driveway and back, putting a good load on it since it was uphill (not both ways). After the second time I was pretty sure it wouldn't break loose so crabbed it and discovered everything rusted together pretty badly. Aint no way that one was freeing up the normal way!!!

But yours will probably free up in a hundred or two feet. In first gear if you need to stop quickly, hitting the brakes hard will probably kill the engine - but if you've got a half block it should free up in that distance.

[jwinwi]

Could be that the actuating rod has bored its way through the throwout bearing.   You'd still feel some resistance but the rod has nothing to push against, and the clutch stays engaged ....

Lannis

How could this possibly happen when the bike sat unused for years? 
The friction plates are stuck to the pressure plate and intermediate plate. WFO in 2nd gear with the clutch handle pulled in will break them loose.

[wirespokes]

The pushrod didn't bore a hole in the cup at the other end. It's been stated the clutch feels totally normal, it just doesn't disengage. There wouldn't be any (or much) resistance at the lever if the rod wasn't pushing on anything.

[Tom H]

May I suggest a few things.

1) I have read about using mineral spirits and filling the bell housing to clean a clutch. Maybe let it soak and it will free up. Do a search on how to do it here.

2) Put front wheel up against a substantial wall. Put bike on center stand and again put up against wall. Start bike, pull clutch and put in first, step on rear brake and add enough gas to keep it from stalling while keeping the clutch lever pulled in. Add more gas and brake as you feel safe with. Maybe try this after cleaning and draining the mineral spirits.

2a) EDIT. IMHO.....You do not want to just let the bike idle in gear with the rear wheel spinning. That would be hard on the drive train. But....with the rear brake on that would IMHO act like the bike was on a road, maybe even an incline. ALSO, if it does not free up within a few moments, I would give up on this idea.

2b) Leave bike off center stand and against a substantial wall. Start and pull clutch and kick into first. This will either free it, break something or do the wickedest burn down since Bike Week! It may help if you try this one to have a few friends over with their phone in one hand with their finger on 911 and the other hand with a cold beer You may also want to make sure your health insurance is up to date

3) The safest method. Pull the trans and take apart the clutch. Replace what needs to be replaced.

Good luck, be safe,
Tom

[theoneandonlymin]

Sometimes there is a huge build up of clutch debris in the flywheel splines that causes it to hang up.

Or sometimes the splines get notched, but we're not going there today so we're not.


Quick and dirty fix for the debris...

You need;


About 500ml x3 of white spirit


Block hole at bottom, put 500ml in through timing bung   replace bung or cover hole. The bungs get hard when they are cold so warm them up to make job easier.


Mind your fingers!!!!! 


Run engine for a minute whilst pulling clutch in and out, drain and repeat, until fluid comes out clean of bottom weep hole. You have enough for three times.

You may need to give the weep hole a wee poke to help the debris through.

Cheers
Min

[Chuck in Indiana]

It's just stuck. No amount of cleaning will help, IMHO. Riding it to free it up sounds worse than it actually is. <shrug>

[wirespokes]

Rather than mucking around trying to free it up with soaking or anything else, if you can't roll it out on the street, load it up on the PU or a trailer and take it to some open road where you can ride it. Then ride it home.

It's not a big deal. Really!

Just sitting for a while didn't accumulate much rust, not like getting dunked in the ocean, but enough to stick the plates. They'll come apart with a little bit of torque as suggested.

[larrys]

Rather than mucking around trying to free it up with soaking or anything else, if you can't roll it out on the street, load it up on the PU or a trailer and take it to some open road where you can ride it. Then ride it home.

It's not a big deal. Really!

Just sitting for a while didn't accumulate much rust, not like getting dunked in the ocean, but enough to stick the plates. They'll come apart with a little bit of torque as suggested.

He's in Queens! Problem being is that there just ain't any open road on Long Guy Land...
Larry

[stratoguzzi]

Put it in 5 th gear engine off....pull in clutch lever and rock it foward and backward.....it will become unstuck shortly....

[Chuck in Indiana]

Put it in 5 th gear engine off....pull in clutch lever and rock it foward and backward.....it will become unstuck shortly....

I would certainly give that a try if I couldn't ride it.

[wirespokes]

Sounds like a good strategy to me too.

[whyrichard]

Hey,

I tried the 5th gear idea and i was super optimistic, but alas no dice...

I may try to brave the city streets with the bike in gear and trying to free up the plates... any other suggestions???

thanks so much,
Richard

[jwinwi]

Hey,

I tried the 5th gear idea and i was super optimistic, but alas no dice...

I may try to brave the city streets with the bike in gear and trying to free up the plates... any other suggestions???

thanks so much,
Richard

Do it at night when there's no less traffic. 
And maybe have a trusted person driving a car out in front of you? Just make sure they're far enough in front...
FWIW I've actually used the second gear, clutch handle pulled in and WFO throttle method but it was not on a busy street. Make sure the motor is turning at least 4K before whacking the throttle open.  Be careful!

[wirespokes]

You know, rocking it in first makes more sense now that I think of it. In fifth it's too easy to rotate the crank. That's how I set valves and ignition - in fifth. In first you'll have a tougher time rotating the crank, so more pressure applied to the clutch plates.

[Tom]

Try the mid gears.  My LMIII would break free somewhere on 2nd or 3rd, that was on Oahu's Windward side when I lived at the base of the Koolau's.  I lived on a hill that helped with bump starting a motorcycle.

[whyrichard]

You guys are all awesome. I forgot how much I love the Guzzi boards....


SOOOOOOO.... I took it out and had a friend push start me, and I could get around well enough in 1st gear until I made it to a large empty parking lot...

And then I ran around in circles, 1st, 2nd, and even 3rd gear, getting a good clip and going wide open up to a decent clip.... BUT NO UNSTUCK CLUTCH!  I was happy to fly on the SP again but was really disappointed it did not work the clutch loose.

I did this for about 15 minutes, until my hand got tired from holding the clutch in and I started to get a bit dizzy....

So, what do you all think is next? Should I do it again??? Should I do the trick with the mineral spirits??

I did the rocking back and forth when parked in 5th gear, as well as 1st gear initially... but should it have been 1st gear? was confused about the earlier message...

thank you all for your help and suggestions,
Richard

[larrys]

Dang! Sounds like it needs to come apart.
Larry

[Tom]

Where are you at?

[whyrichard]

I am in Sunnyside Queens. NYC.... 

If it indeed needs to come apart, any recommendations??? The place I take my guzzi to in Brooklyn is soooo expensive....

thanks,
r

[Tom]

High humidity area.