Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on July 27, 2021, 08:59:35 AM
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With an aging demographics of motorcycle riders, Is there a market for a smaller sized touring bike with a fairing? Does every touring bike have to be over 1000cc and 600 pounds? Remember back when Honda marketed the 650 cc twin engine Silver Wing? Some riders on here are considering much smaller bikes to tour on in place of a Norge or Big block Guzzi. Many of us are realizing we can get by with a much smaller bike for touring.
They’ve gone smaller with adventure bikes. Is there a market for smaller sized touring bikes with a fairing or is that market segment too small? Or have the adventure bikes taking on that role?
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With an aging demographics of motorcycle riders, Is there a market for a smaller sized touring bike with a fairing? Does every touring bike have to be over 1000cc and 600 pounds? Remember back when Honda marketed the 650 cc twin engine Silver Wing? Some riders on here are considering much smaller bikes to tour on in place of a Norge or Big block Guzzi. Many of us are realizing we can get by with a much smaller bike for touring.
They’ve gone smaller with adventure bikes. Is there a market for smaller sized touring bikes with a fairing or is that market segment too small? Or have the adventure bikes taking on that role?
IMHO, I think if you research this a little bit, you will find dozens of excellent, modern, choices for this purpose... :wink: :thumb: :boozing: :cool: :smiley:
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Lots of people tour with the NC700 Honda platform, but otherwise you are probably stuck with the adventure styling. Wee Strom and the Versys are popular with Kawasaki marketing the X300 as a tourer.
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Tenere 700 with street tires?
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Lots of people tour with the NC700 Honda platform, but otherwise you are probably stuck with the adventure styling. Wee Strom and the Versys are popular with Kawasaki marketing the X300 as a tourer.
Those are all in the adv genre which now ranges from street adventure to off road adventure. LOL!
The X300 is fully capable of solo touring.
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And we all remember the Moto Guzzi SP 650, although I don’t think they sold too many.
...Remember back when Honda marketed the 650 cc twin engine Silver Wing? ....
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There are no straight up factory touring bikes in the mid weight category, especially if you want a frame mounted fairing.
There are mid weight sport touring, and adventure touring with frame mounted fairings. And I guess the maxi-scooters.
When you get away from frame mounted fairings the V7III makes a nice tourer, and there are mid weight cruisers.
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BMW had the K75 in an RT, S, and standard. But ultimately discontinued.
Honda's PC800 only lasted in production for a short time - but that was an unusually styled bike.
I think the street-touring (vs adventure touring) bikes tend to be focused on the ability to carry a passenger and a lot of luggage. The smaller displacement bikes aren't so fun to ride with so much weight.
So no - I don't think there is much of a market for a smaller touring bike. But I do think there is an aftermarket to add touring capabilities to whatever people want to ride.
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One of those 650 Royal Enfields might make a dandy touring bike with a
PlexiFairing, a tank bag, and some throw-over saddlebags. Either someone
already makes a luggage rack and hard bags for it, or will soon.
I spent 400 miles in the White Mountains in NH on the big Cali on Saturday,
and while it's competent, a smaller bike would have been easier to ride in the
twisties for sure.
-Stretch
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Yamaha makes a really nice light weight 700cc twin cyl sport touring bike, but as usual the U.S. gets no respect and the bike is not available here.
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(https://i.ibb.co/41sVrnw/42-D798-EE-7-FE4-4-CA4-9-B54-F6-D594686-DA1.png) (https://ibb.co/41sVrnw)
1983 Honda GL650I Silverwing.
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Tenere 700 with street tires?
:thumb:
(https://i.ibb.co/QnybJ02/7T.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QnybJ02)
Not one, but TWO local dealers! What a concept!
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Yamaha makes a really nice light weight 700cc twin cyl sport touring bike, but as usual the U.S. gets no respect and the bike is not available here.
My perfect next bike would be a Yamaha Tracer 700 with electronic cruise control and the suspension from the R7 tuned for sport touring.
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I have also been asking for something like this. My 1400 has recently become a handful for me but I have solved some of that problem for now but eventually will be an issue again. I also have a V7lll to move to when this happens but I feel it is a bit small for touring but I will use it for that when it comes to that. I do not want to go to another brand, love my Guzzis. I would really like the see MG make a road going version of the V85. Lower, more conventional styling etc. I would trade both of my bikes for one of these if one existed. I also wanted to check out out a Roamer but the closest one was 800 miles or so away. I finally saw one a couple of weekends ago and it probably wouldn't fit the bill anyway.
kk
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I have also been asking for something like this. My 1400 has recently become a handful for me but I have solved some of that problem for now but eventually will be an issue again. I also have a V7lll to move to when this happens but I feel it is a bit small for touring but I will use it for that when it comes to that. I do not want to go to another brand, love my Guzzis. I would really like the see MG make a road going version of the V85. Lower, more conventional styling etc. I would trade both of my bikes for one of these if one existed. I also wanted to check out out a Roamer but the closest one was 800 miles or so away. I finally saw one a couple of weekends ago and it probably wouldn't fit the bill anyway.
kk
Road going v85. Great idea!
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Super scooters, or a Loop
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my solution to the question. (450lb gassed up, 113hp) (add the bags and luggage) (it's still light) (I've added some bar risers)
(https://g2.img-dpreview.com/58B36FCFEB05474F915BE73C284B5E23.jpg)
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Problem is if you look at a lot of the smaller displacement motorcycles are still heavy just less HP.
The NC700 is 480lbs curb weight no bags. Heavy little devil.
The V-Strom 650. Weights as much as a Hexhead GS with 1/2 the suspension, 40 less HP, shitty brakes, dimensionally as big or bigger but cramped ergos. The advantage is it gets 3MPG more than the Hexhead.
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I wasn't overly-excited by the small block Guzzis from 2003-2005 (?) Having said that, I recall several trips my buddy Denny and I took on our Guzzis, me on my 1200 Sport, and Denny on his 750 Breva (I think a 2004) with HB hard bags and a windshield. He ran the wheels off that little machine, and it never let him down. Now there was a small but capable sport tourer!
Bob
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Road going v85. Great idea!
Road going V85:
https://www.motoguzzi.com/us_EN/models/v85-tt/v85-tt-travel-850-v-twin-4s-2021/
And someone will figure out how to lower it an inch or two, like some do for the VStroms.
Scott
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It's time is now. Purpose built mid displacement Touring machine.
There's an older age group that ain't dragging their wives around on trips.
Maybe some of us? :boozing:
:thumb:
(https://i.ibb.co/41sVrnw/42-D798-EE-7-FE4-4-CA4-9-B54-F6-D594686-DA1.png) (https://ibb.co/41sVrnw)
1983 Honda GL650I Silverwing.
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Problem is if you look at a lot of the smaller displacement motorcycles are still heavy just less HP.
Yep. 800cc to 1200cc is very little change in weight. At least you are spending less $$ and insurance is usually less.
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I was never much of a tourer, but these days I can ride this as far as anything else:
(https://i.ibb.co/MnWsNDb/Winding-Stair-2020.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MnWsNDb)
That DR650 engine would be fab in a TU250 style frame. Suzuki will never build it. Maybe the Royal Enfield Shotgun will be a player when it is released. Depends on the ergos.
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Beautiful!
(https://g2.img-dpreview.com/58B36FCFEB05474F915BE73C284B5E23.jpg)
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I don't understand this topic. What's a touring bike? A bike you tour on.
I've toured on a Honda CB500/4, a BMW(Aprilia) F650, a Suzuki VX800, my 850T and of course my Mille. All you need is bags and maybe a fairing. I've gone long days two-up on the VX, T and Mille. (Of course Gail and I together weigh only 260 lb). And 200-mile stints two-up on the /4 and Funduro. I don't need cruise control, liquid cooled saddle, surround sound or electric cupholder.
If I could have just one bike, I guarantee I could ride fireroads, twisties and superslabs on it with equal confidence -- and pick it up if necessary.
What passes for a "touring bike" in dealerships is apparently half a Cadillac. But we shouldn't let the industry tell us what works and what doesn't.
Bottom line: There are plenty of lighter touring bikes available, new or used. Always have been, always will be, and plenty of riders who buy them, beginning with older gentlemen and the inseam-challenged.
Meanwhile, Huzo is touring on a postie bike.
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Lots of folks have been touring or at least doing long distance rides on their V71,2,3s, that I have seen on other media this summer. I'll probably do the same, after I get the time and money to do the front end, and get thru another set of tires. I still may go with a 1000cc or bigger machine at some point. I can see the appeal of the big cruisers/tourers, it's nice to be comfy, and if you ride the major highways to get where you are going, or are a mileage collector. When I get to that stage in life where I can just go and not have to be responsible for anything but myself, I'll take the long way---
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Problem is if you look at a lot of the smaller displacement motorcycles are still heavy just less HP.
The NC700 is 480lbs curb weight no bags. Heavy little devil.
The V-Strom 650. Weights as much as a Hexhead GS with 1/2 the suspension, 40 less HP, shitty brakes, dimensionally as big or bigger but cramped ergos. The advantage is it gets 3MPG more than the Hexhead.
Yep. IIRC, my V-Strom 650 was 120 lbs heavier than my DR 650. And you could feel every lb.
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I was never much of a tourer, but these days I can ride this as far as anything else:
(https://i.ibb.co/MnWsNDb/Winding-Stair-2020.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MnWsNDb)
That DR650 engine would be fab in a TU250 style frame. Suzuki will never build it. Maybe the Royal Enfield Shotgun will be a player when it is released. Depends on the ergos.
I supposed that a bike that is often used for Round The World travel would have to be considered a touring bike.
I agree with the above. I have often thought that a Honda Rebel 300 or 500 would be a good home for a DR 650 engine, or for that matter an XL650R engine.
I think emissions regulations makes those bikes impossible. My understanding is that the big single won't meet a lot of new emissions standards, but that all current designs are "grandfathered" in.
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Another one, the Yamaha FJ900/Tracer. It's as fast as my Duc but a little too upright for sportiness & handling. Still faster than anyone can ride. Might be just the ticket. It's not pretty like my Duc.
(https://yamaha.scdn5.secure.raxcdn.com/library/img.jpg?id=604bf6a92a0ab7161046b747&w=975)
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Beautiful!
You're a scholar and a gentleman. Thanks. It was the motorcycle I was always looking for.
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Road going V85:
https://www.motoguzzi.com/us_EN/models/v85-tt/v85-tt-travel-850-v-twin-4s-2021/
And someone will figure out how to lower it an inch or two, like some do for the VStroms.
Scott
It can be had with the OEM lowered seat.
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I've been looking the last few months for a bike between 800-1100 to use as a more long distance ride. There's not much around. The Adventure bikes seem to have taken over as the touring bikes, all tall 850mm seat height, 250 plus kg's. The sport tourer all 15-18 ltr tanks 220-240kg's drop handle bars. Looked at the Suzuki GSX 750 the other day only 3kg lighter than the GSX s1000. The Yamaha 900 tracer might work for you about 210kg 320km from a tank of fuel or an Aprillia Mana Gt 850 but they are manual or auto. Seat height and bars can be changed of course. You could look for an 850 Breva from 2006-2008.
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I supposed that a bike that is often used for Round The World travel would have to be considered a touring bike.
I agree with the above. I have often thought that a Honda Rebel 300 or 500 would be a good home for a DR 650 engine, or for that matter an XL650R engine.
I think emissions regulations makes those bikes impossible. My understanding is that the big single won't meet a lot of new emissions standards, but that all current designs are "grandfathered" in.
[/b]
That makes sense. Yeah that DR in a street frame would've make a nice competitor for the Yamaha SR series. :wink:
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What would Huzo say? I’m stuck in the 70’s so I would pick an airhead or a big or small block Guzzi. My v50 was bought new by the previous owner. He installed a BMW S fairing and rode across the country and back with his wife and luggage. I thought he was crazy until I got it out on the highway. I think if I were looking for a new smaller distance bike I’d look at a new Royal Enfield or maybe a BMW vertical twin.
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Started this thread looking for a touring bike with factory fairing and bags at a wet weight around 500 pounds, capable of hauling rider, passenger and luggage for a multi day tour. (The GL650. Weighed in around 530 lbs.) I thought 30 years of technology could produce such a bike if it was desired but maybe it’s not? I realize just about any bike could have bags thrown over the back and ridden for days on end. I’m thinking of a factory set up touring bike around 500 pounds that can carry 2 people comfortably. Is it possible?
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Triumph Tiger with the factory Trekker pannier option. Or BMW F800 GS with one of several factory pannier kits. Both under 500 lb. Honda has its own pannier set for the CB500x.
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The "Adventure" bikes have sort of taken the market and for good reason. They are just a better mousetrap :thumb:
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Smaller than what?
Smaller dimensions (seat height, weight)? Or displacement/horsepower?
The new Triumphs are a good choice. I'm not talking Rocket 3 here, but their twins.
I replaced my 750lb/70hp CalVin with a 450lb/80hp Bonneville. Add a windscreen, panniers, and luggage rack (factory$$$$ or not) and away you go.
The smaller Adventure bikes are good as well, but IMHO they are ALL butt ugly.
G
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The Versys 650 tourer ticks all of the boxes and comes with a screen and panniers too.
I have never owned on but know someone who does. He was part of a European tour to Spain and France we did a few years back and had no trouble keeping up with his O/H on the back loaded up with the panniers and a top box.
It weighs in at 217kg wet (478lbs) and looks like this.
(https://i.ibb.co/wg570Xq/Versys-650-2021-GN1-T.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wg570Xq)
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I don't understand this topic. What's a touring bike? A bike you tour on.
While true you can tour the country on "anything" it doesn't mean most riders would. People ride across the country on bicycles, but I wouldn't try it! Fresh out of college, I rode a Suzuki GT380 from Kansas City to Los Angles. In the middle of the summer. Wearing an open-face helmet. That was dumb, but I made it, sunburn and all. Would I try that today? Not a chance! (Unless somebody paid me a lot of money!) These days my definition of a touring bike: it needs the following: Hard bags, Wind protection, electric cruise control, a fuel range of 200 miles, min. But that's just me, I'm old, soft and lazy.
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BMW had the K75 in an RT, S, and standard. But ultimately discontinued.
Honda's PC800 only lasted in production for a short time - but that was an unusually styled bike.
Honda PC800s are pushing 30 years old now, but have an avid following, which I recently joined, and can be had for 2 to 3 grand in good condition. They are known for going hundreds of thousands of miles with just oil, battery, and tire changes. However they are not light weight at 640 pounds wet, but the CG is low and a tractable engine makes slow speed handling not difficult. I am about 5'6" now and can still flat foot it from the stock seat. Oh, and the trunk can hold two full face helmets or a load of ice and beer.
(https://i.ibb.co/28vTc6f/7-4-21-in-Beaver-Ar-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/28vTc6f)
(https://i.ibb.co/pdhmc23/7-4-21-in-Beaver-Ar-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pdhmc23)
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Honda PC800s are pushing 30 years old now, but have an avid following, which I recently joined, and can be had for 2 to 3 grand in good condition.
(https://i.ibb.co/28vTc6f/7-4-21-in-Beaver-Ar-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/28vTc6f)
(https://i.ibb.co/pdhmc23/7-4-21-in-Beaver-Ar-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pdhmc23)
While I never warmed up to the "appliance white" ones, I do like them in red. Definitely a bike that was ahead of its time.
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I've 'toured' with most any bike type imaginable. For a number of years it was Ferrying bikes for guys that wouldn't ride in the dark, it's too far, I don't have the time to ride all that way. Amazing how well that paid - most times. Curiously they were mostly bmw's.
Now that I've aged out of bikes weighing more than ~350#'s I'm back to 650's and smaller, plus 2 strokes for quick, indecent fun.
I still believe a DR650 w/correct suspension changes, gearing, wheels, tires and brakes could be excellent. There's large amount of luggage to chose from including aux. fuel, plus lighting, handle bars, electric grips, wind screens.
I've had a short stack of Moto Guzzis' for the last 25 years, but 2 SV650S's have done close to 200K miles,collectively, (many of them BBGolds), with never a whimper or flat. Do you want to Tour or repair? R3~
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While I never warmed up to the "appliance white" ones, I do like them in red. Definitely a bike that was ahead of its time.
Yes, I thought I preferred the black 94 and 95 models, but this 89 came up a few miles away and at an eventual $1500 price so I tried it as my "test" PC800. In person the Pearl Pacific White grows on you - It is like a metallic Old English white that is actually a cream color. The 90 models had the best Candy Apple red with clear coat that Honda called Candy Glory Red. The later reds skipped the clear coat and could become more orange if they spent too much time in the sun.
Unfortunately mine had a checkered past with the original owner hitting a deer in 2009, which totaled much of the plastic and his right shoulder, and was sold in 2019 to a guy in the UP who rebuilt it with Russian aftermarket "refrigerator white" mirrors and then sold it to the fellow in Arkansas who sold it to me. I only learned this history after the purchase because it still had the original title and had not been registered by either of the intervening owners.
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A California Vintage is a smaller tourer..now a days. A 750 or 850 Moto Guzzi set up like a vintage would be a good bike for travel. At least 100 pounds lighter but with hard bags, floor boards, and windshield.
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These days my definition of a touring bike: it needs the following: Hard bags, Wind protection, electric cruise control, a fuel range of 200 miles, min.
This is doable, easy. Triumph Tiger is available with cruise control and bags, weighs under 500 lb and will do 200 miles on a tank. But it's tallish.
What you won't find, unless you modify something, is a bike that looks and rides like a Goldwing, with the weight of a Rebel.
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For under 500lbs and two up a Wee Strom is very hard to beat. Complete aftermarket support, factory tour package or customize your own, mid 50s mpg, and very low entry cost.
No they don't tickle your sole but they are a heck of a swiss army knife.
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This is doable, easy. Triumph Tiger is available with cruise control and bags, weighs under 500 lb and will do 200 miles on a tank. But it's tallish.
What you won't find, unless you modify something, is a bike that looks and rides like a Goldwing, with the weight of a Rebel.
The Tiger 900GT now has a low version (29.92 inch seat height). https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/adventure/tiger-900-gt/gt-low
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My smaller retro 'touring' bikes:
a. 2000 W650(in 2006, on Goshen Pass, between WV and VA)
b. 2003 Bonneville Centennial Edition - basically a T100 (in 2006 - just prior to beginning a 4000 mile plus ride)
c. The Bonneville ride
(https://i.ibb.co/r448GZv/IMG-0186.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r448GZv)
(https://i.ibb.co/BZw30HW/001-Bob-s-Bonneville-T100.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BZw30HW)
(https://i.ibb.co/cJv6Ytb/022-Hudson-Ohio-to-AZ-UT-WY-and-Home.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cJv6Ytb)
Both great little bikes. The Triumph was probably physically 10% larger overall than the W650. Both were nice weekend trippers. Actually took the Triumph on a two week ride from NE Ohio to AZ, north to WY, then headed for home. Never felt the need for another 200 # of motorcycle!
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This is doable, easy. Triumph Tiger is available with cruise control and bags, weighs under 500 lb and will do 200 miles on a tank. But it's tallish.
I consider any of the adventure models (that offer elec. cruise control) as viable touring bikes. As I posted back in June (Last Big Tour), my current go-to touring bike is a BMW R1200gs. A little heavy, but has all the creature comforts. The smaller BMW GS750gs and 850gs have all the same features minus the hp and torque.
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Forgive me if this was already mentioned. I really want to try the MV Agusta Turismo Veloce...
Sorry - can't figure how to post a picture...
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Are people not touring on the V7 series? Didn’t Beaver just ride from Texas to New Hampshire?
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I had a couple of long rides on a 2004 Breva 750. That was an awesome bike, reliable as gravity. Unfortunately- no electronic cruise control.
I'm 5'10'' or so, and was just a bit cramped on it, but no real complaints. I had a good time, even in the rain.
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What would Huzo say? I’m stuck in the 70’s so I would pick an airhead or a big or small block Guzzi. My v50 was bought new by the previous owner. He installed a BMW S fairing and rode across the country and back with his wife and luggage. I thought he was crazy until I got it out on the highway. I think if I were looking for a new smaller distance bike I’d look at a new Royal Enfield or maybe a BMW vertical twin.
I have a '21 Royal Enfield "Interceptor 650" and it's a very nice bike at a very low price ($6820 OTD) but the OEM suspension is terrible and the seat, well, it's a nice looking seat. Add a pair of IKON shocks and a Russell Day Long Saddle and you're in business. They weigh about 473# as delivered with full tank. I lightened mine by 30# by swapping the 37# OEM exhaust for a 9.5# TEC 2 into 1 light stainless exhaust, removing the passenger footrests, grab rail and center stand. It's a good, solid bike that comes with a 3 year, unlimited miles warranty and free 3 year roadside assistance. I've had no trouble in 2200 miles.
For a lightweight, inexpensive Guzzi touring bike, this:
(https://i.ibb.co/vYYFyZT/IMG-2081.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vYYFyZT)
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My V7III is a great tourer, I only have a Top Box for luggage and sling all my tenting supplies on the seat behind me.
The secret to good camping is to take less crap, something I haven't managed to do properly yet.
It would be nice to have a container that could open up to accommodate a run to the grocery store.
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For just this reason I sold my 2001 Triumph Sprint RS (535 lb wet w/o bags) and bought a Yamaha XSR700 (410 lb. wet). Center stand is from SW Motech. Stock seat is dreadful so Corbin on the way. Other than that, much to like - nimble, yet freeway stable. OK suspension. Have not seen an aftermarket fairing other than handle bar ones. Happy to go w/o one for the time being.
(https://www.xsr700forums.com/attachments/xsr-1-jpg.26498/)
.
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For under 500lbs and two up a Wee Strom is very hard to beat. Complete aftermarket support, factory tour package or customize your own, mid 50s mpg, and very low entry cost.
No they don't tickle your sole but they are a heck of a swiss army knife.
Yep! FWIW, I got one in '12 (DL650A), very pleased with performance, fuel economy, cost to own/operate, dependability, etc. After using it for years as an urban commuter (work ride) and riding it from Northeast Ohio to Utah a couple of times, I feel the bike owes me nothing. It has no problem keeping up with my GS riding buds for a lot less expense. It will run 6K mile trips without any noticeable oil consumption from it's 2400cc oil capacity. So, here it is 9 years old, 45k miles on it, no oil or coolant leaks, ready to be ridden anywhere today.
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V85TT fits the bill nicely.
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I would also like to see a real “TOURING” midsize motorcycle offered by all the major companies. When I say “touring” I’m saying one that the buyer does not have to start replacing substandard equipment from the get go, to have a good tourer. When one has to do that, they have not purchased a true “touring” motorcycle.
Huzo is proving, as we speak, that any motorcycle can be equipped and used as a touring bike.
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Earlier bikes were smaller?
I have heard story that my grandfather's brother rode from Helsingfors to Ostrobothnia (to our place) with his Jawa 350 (at the end of 1960's).
Some 400 - 500km. The story goes that he felt so bad/sick (as he got here) that the bike stayed here for a while.
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Started this thread looking for a touring bike with factory fairing and bags at a wet weight around 500 pounds, capable of hauling rider, passenger and luggage for a multi day tour. (The GL650. Weighed in around 530 lbs.) I thought 30 years of technology could produce such a bike if it was desired but maybe it’s not? I realize just about any bike could have bags thrown over the back and ridden for days on end. I’m thinking of a factory set up touring bike around 500 pounds that can carry 2 people comfortably. Is it possible?
Yes, I realize ANY motorcycle can be used for touring. But a mid weight “factory bike” with fairing and bags capable of caring 2 people reasonably comfortably ?
?
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I decided to put together a sport touring bike to fit my needs this past Spring. 2021 RE Conti GT. Added a touring saddle side bags and then a factory rack that I put a Givi universal baseplate on. Then a Givi 45 liter trunk. Perfect solo sport tourer for me. The 270 degree crank makes it smooth like a Guzzi. 70 mpg out on the road. (Euro 4 cert) I think the suspension and brakes are great. I've been told the Conti has stiffer springs than the INT. It suits my 250# short bulk well. I got it broken in before I got my new knee installed. Started riding again last week 10 weeks after the knee installation. VERY pleased to be back riding and working my way up to touring on it this Fall!
(https://i.ibb.co/72zVFNP/171893851-1597853057086214-2277194600448299416-n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/72zVFNP)
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That new Benelli TRK looks pretty good. Seem to be popular in Europe. Pretty good reviews. I sat on one and liked it. Deal breaker for me was no center stand.
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guzziboy66 been looking at that bike myself. I found one that has been lowered. 21ltr tank, 400km from said tank and 213kg wet, 110hp at 11500rpm.
(https://i.ibb.co/XL1ZM0x/Tourismo.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XL1ZM0x)
You could also look at a Benelli 899 Trek.
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I decided to put together a sport touring bike to fit my needs this past Spring. 2021 RE Conti GT. Added a touring saddle side bags and then a factory rack that I put a Givi universal baseplate on. Then a Givi 45 liter trunk. Perfect solo sport tourer for me. The 270 degree crank makes it smooth like a Guzzi. 70 mpg out on the road. (Euro 4 cert) I think the suspension and brakes are great. I've been told the Conti has stiffer springs than the INT. It suits my 250# short bulk well. I got it broken in before I got my new knee installed. Started riding again last week 10 weeks after the knee installation. VERY pleased to be back riding and working my way up to touring on it this Fall!
(https://i.ibb.co/72zVFNP/171893851-1597853057086214-2277194600448299416-n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/72zVFNP)
Interesting; you find the OEM Enfield 650 suspension great and I find it awful (hard). The answer lies in the rider's weight, apparently. You weigh 250# and I'm 133# this morning.
I need to give serious consideration to the Big Mac diet.
Ralph
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Interesting; you find the OEM Enfield 650 suspension great and I find it awful (hard). The answer lies in the rider's weight, apparently. You weigh 250# and I'm 133# this morning.
I need to give serious consideration to the Big Mac diet.
Ralph
I test rode an Enfield Int several months ago and found the suspension as you did ................. very stiff over our not so good roads. To be fair, I find many bikes to be sprung too stiff for my 160 pounds (dry wt.) I guess I prefer bikes that many would find too lightly sprung.
Example, I found my 2008 1200 Sport especially compliant, after minimal time spent tweaking the stock suspension. Conversely, I could never get this compliance out of my 2012 Griso 8vSE. Main reason the Sport was ridden 4x as many miles as the Griso over same time period.
Bob
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For a lightweight, inexpensive Guzzi touring bike, this:
(https://i.ibb.co/vYYFyZT/IMG-2081.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vYYFyZT)
Wondered why it took so long. I have had mine for close to 18 years now and it does everything I want it to. Tours just great.
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My Breva750 is a great smaller touring bike, and this is my second one - which I plan on having for a few years until I buy a V7 850 Stone and rig it out the same way - small screen + HB racks for my HB bags + centrestand, or......maybe the new road going V85 based thing will come along and I will go for that (and ride it until I cark it!). For reference I'm 5 foot 3.
Reading the conversation its apparent theres a huge difference between European/UK touring and touring in the US. The twisty roads start 3 miles from my house and they are excellent. Some motorway is a necessary evil, not the done thing when I tour. From Dunquerque to Mandello I think 5% of the miles were on motorways; a bit near Valenciennes, a bit between Strassbourg and Friegberg (Autobahn) and an accidental bit in Switzerland that we had no pass/carnet for and got on by mistake!! Luckily not fined!!!!
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Good opinions. The Versos 650 is a great bike, and I'm pretty sure a Royal Enfield 650 would be near the top of my list of new street bikes if I was buying.
As always it's a personal thang. What a smaller touring bike really depends on one's point of reference. Kinda like what is skinny or fat.
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Just don't plan on riding on any freeways... :laugh: :grin: :wink: :thumb: :boozing: :cool: :bow: :smiley:
(https://i.ibb.co/LZfXQ7B/Screen-Shot-2021-07-30-at-5-10-38-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/LZfXQ7B)
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Freeways/motorways(UK) are probably childs play compared to the Bahn. Lane discipline is the key. Tooling along at an indicated 100mph, Jeff on the Norge and me on the Breva 750, we passed a fair few cars and trucks doing a steady 80 to 90. The MOMENT you pass them and its safe to do so, you have to pull back into the "slow" lane because you can bet there's a Focus RS or a Porsche or Audi or Merc doing between 120 and 170 wanting to come past. And the amazing thing (compared to the UK) is THEY then move to the far right lane if there is nothing in front of them. It all works amazingly well.
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(https://i.ibb.co/m5vNnkk/thumbnail-IMG-1286.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m5vNnkk)
free image hosting website (https://imgbb.com/)
What more do you need?
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With an aging demographics of motorcycle riders, Is there a market for a smaller sized touring bike with a fairing? Does every touring bike have to be over 1000cc and 600 pounds? Remember back when Honda marketed the 650 cc twin engine Silver Wing? Some riders on here are considering much smaller bikes to tour on in place of a Norge or Big block Guzzi. Many of us are realizing we can get by with a much smaller bike for touring.
They’ve gone smaller with adventure bikes. Is there a market for smaller sized touring bikes with a fairing or is that market segment too small? Or have the adventure bikes taking on that role?
Closest thing would be the 2022 Moto Guzzi V7 with the 850 engine and a frame mounted fairing and matching hard bags. For some reason I can't find a picture of one on the internet.
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Just don't plan on riding on any freeways... :laugh: :grin: :wink: :thumb: :boozing: :cool: :bow: :smiley:
(https://i.ibb.co/LZfXQ7B/Screen-Shot-2021-07-30-at-5-10-38-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/LZfXQ7B)
Are you saying the Royal Enfield 650 doesn't have the horsepower to run on the freeway? I seem to remember you buoying one recently. Is this from personal experience? What do you think the max comfortable touring speed would be?
In my imagination, freeway in AZ means WFO! Am I close?
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Benelli 1131 Amazonas Trek, 810mm seat height, 21ltr tank, 350km, 125HP
(https://i.ibb.co/CVNJhGz/Generated-by-pixel-2021-06-29-T13-40-52-943703.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CVNJhGz)
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Interesting; you find the OEM Enfield 650 suspension great and I find it awful (hard). The answer lies in the rider's weight, apparently. You weigh 250# and I'm 133# this morning.
I need to give serious consideration to the Big Mac diet.
Ralph
LOL! You'll need a 52" chest and thick legs too. I come from a long line of sturdy mine and mill workers! Just ride it two up!
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I would also like to see a real “TOURING” midsize motorcycle offered by all the major companies. When I say “touring” I’m saying one that the buyer does not have to start replacing substandard equipment from the get go, to have a good tourer. When one has to do that, they have not purchased a true “touring” motorcycle.
Huzo is proving, as we speak, that any motorcycle can be equipped and used as a touring bike.
Some of the problem is too many variables. I prefer symmetrical hard bags with no exhaust cut out at the sacrifice of sticking out further. The next feller might like bags that are tucked in as far as possible and the third guy may prefer soft panniers. Grips, handlebars, handle bar rise and pull back, pegs, windscreen, seats and on and on are different combos for each person. The best a manufacturer can do is give a blank slate and let you build to suit from there.
As I've aged and "toured" more my wants in a bike have evolved too. Before it was looks and performance now it wind management, a comfy seat and good fuel range. I guess I changed from form over function to function over form.
I really do not what a "smaller" touring bike as dimensionally I have not gotten any smaller.
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if you want full wind protection,i think it is difficult to get all you want in a touring bike below a certain size and weight. the best one i had was a 2004 r1150rt. the specs put it at 630 lbs ready to ride. it had a 60 inch wheelbase which meant a passenger could ride in reasonable comfort and a real full coverage fairing. it was a little topheavy. previously, i had an 1100rs that weighed 50 lbs less but the coverage was not in the same league as the rt. the original r100rt may have come in a little under 600 lbs, but look what it didn't have. no abs, skinny bike tires, far less stout construction.
i just don't think you can get what you want for under 600lbs.
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Along with any of the modern V7 variants from Guzzi, I always thought the 2020 Triumph Bonneville Black would be a cool bike for a small, capable, reliable touring mount... :thumb: :bow: :boozing: :cool: :wink: :smiley:
(https://i.ibb.co/HGR7hsV/Screen-Shot-2021-08-01-at-5-33-37-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/HGR7hsV)
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JJ, haven't done any touring on my 2016 Bonnie 1200 yet, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so. The bike isn't a lightweight, but is fairly low while still having good seat to peg distance.
At this time, the bike is equipped with a set of Givi pannier mounts (well-made .... sturdy) and a light weight set of Givi E21 Monokey bags. I have a Cortech bag with built in bungees that easily attaches behind the rider on the passenger section of the saddle for additional capacity. Since the majority of my 'camping' has been in mom and pop motels the past several years, no rear rack installed for tent, sleeping bag, etc. But Givi makes a rack that'll work with these pannier mounts.
The T120 gets good mileage, close to 50mpg, which translates to somewhere between 170 - 190 miles per tank. Roughly 80hp with a ton of torque down low in the rpm range.
I would hate to have to change the rear tire while on a trip. Stock mufflers are unfortunately in the way of rear axle removal. Single sided swing arms and lug nut mounted wheels have spoiled me. Wire wheels on the Bonnie aren't tubeless.
Couple of pics.........
(https://i.ibb.co/HtXsXTP/2016-Triumph-T120.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HtXsXTP)
(https://i.ibb.co/56Qm38j/The-CVNP-Sledding-Area.jpg) (https://ibb.co/56Qm38j)
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after reading some of these replies and taking a ride yesterday on it, I think I'll stick with the MG spec 542# 2002 California Stone, yes a little heavier than that with lights and bags, etc.
Even though most of my touring these days is behind a one-ton truck pulling a 5th-wheel, I wouldn't hesitate to ride that bike cross country.
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Bit late to this party, but will relate an encounter at Sturgis about 2001~ camped next to a young man on his way back from Alaska. He was riding a 250 Honda (the small cruiser) on his way home to the midwest (forget the state). Said he had had no problems other than a worn out rear tire and the small gas tank (about 150 miles IMS). Said he could maintain about 60 MPH on the freeway if forced to use them. He had a full camping set up and only had duffle bags for storage and a softbag of some kind on the luggage rack. I am sure that bike qualified as a "touring bike"111
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Bit late to this party, but will relate an encounter at Sturgis about 2001~ camped next to a young man on his way back from Alaska. He was riding a 250 Honda (the small cruiser) on his way home to the midwest (forget the state). Said he had had no problems other than a worn out rear tire and the small gas tank (about 150 miles IMS). Said he could maintain about 60 MPH on the freeway if forced to use them. He had a full camping set up and only had duffle bags for storage and a softbag of some kind on the luggage rack. I am sure that bike qualified as a "touring bike"111
Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.
Being able to maintain 60 is about 30 MPH shy of what is currently needed on most highways/.
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I'd be really happy if Guzzi expands the V85 range to include a more road going bike. Don't need a full fairing like my old Norge, and I don't need two up capacity. Time will tell.
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If I can't hold up my EV, LM3, V700, I'll just run the sidecar rig full time. Cal2/SCF sidecar. Not going to SB at all NOR buying a new bike.
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Hi All, 8-1-21
My first "tourer" was a 2007 HD Sportster 1200 (white) with windshield, side bags and tail rack. It weighed a little over 550 pounds and I rode it around Lake Superior, through Maine, Mass and New Hampshire. It also made it to Virginia, the Carolinas and points west. It was a great bike, reliable, more than enough power, stable and comfortable for 3-5 hours at a time, heated seat and grips and there were dealerships all over the place. It had a single disc on the front so it was limited in the twisties, but adequate.
Be well, stay well,
DougG
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if you want full wind protection,i think it is difficult to get all you want in a touring bike below a certain size and weight. the best one i had was a 2004 r1150rt. the specs put it at 630 lbs ready to ride. it had a 60 inch wheelbase which meant a passenger could ride in reasonable comfort and a real full coverage fairing. it was a little topheavy. previously, i had an 1100rs that weighed 50 lbs less but the coverage was not in the same league as the rt. the original r100rt may have come in a little under 600 lbs, but look what it didn't have. no abs, skinny bike tires, far less stout construction.
i just don't think you can get what you want for under 600lbs.
1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing Interstate is 529 lbs wet.
2010 Honda NT700VA ABS is 571 lbs wet.
Both were equipped with shaft drive, integrated hard bags. and frame mounted fairing.
Both also were equipped with 5 speed transmissions. Would be nice to see a dct or at least a 6 speed transmission. Current choices from Honda offer either chain drive or else a 1200 that weighs 667 lbs wet.
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(https://i.ibb.co/qFq9vVB/2-D758-ED3-F581-4244-8-F32-B3-DB7967-FE1-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qFq9vVB)
1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing Interstate is 529 lbs wet.
2010 Honda NT700VA ABS is 571 lbs wet.
Both were equipped with shaft drive, integrated hard bags. and frame mounted fairing.
Both also were equipped with 5 speed transmissions. Would be nice to see a dct or at least a 6 speed transmission. Current choices from Honda offer either chain drive or else a 1200 that weighs 667 lbs wet.
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I'd be really happy if Guzzi expands the V85 range to include a more road going bike. Don't need a full fairing like my old Norge, and I don't need two up capacity. Time will tell.
I have been hoping for something like this myself as I have said previously. Something lighter than my 1400 but a little more substantial than my V7lll.
kk
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Freeways/motorways(UK) are probably childs play compared to the Bahn. Lane discipline is the key. Tooling along at an indicated 100mph, Jeff on the Norge and me on the Breva 750, we passed a fair few cars and trucks doing a steady 80 to 90. The MOMENT you pass them and its safe to do so, you have to pull back into the "slow" lane because you can bet there's a Focus RS or a Porsche or Audi or Merc doing between 120 and 170 wanting to come past. And the amazing thing (compared to the UK) is THEY then move to the far right lane if there is nothing in front of them. It all works amazingly well.
In the USA its the goal of most drivers to get in the left lane and stay there no matter how many cars pass you on the right or if there are no cars in front of you. Tractor trailers drives like to get in the left lane and try to pass other TT's going 1/600th of a MPH faster. Sometimes it takes 9 or 10 miles but eventually they either pass or give up and fall back inline.
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“It’s not what you ride, it’s what’s inside!”
This is what a biker told my friend when they met on Hwy 1 as my friend, just out of high school, was moving from San Francisco to Los Angeles on a loaded down old Vespa scooter. He was a kid, he didn’t know about motorcycles, he didn’t care, and he had a great little coastal tour on his scooter.
Add to that the old adage, “where there’s a will there’s a way”.
Robert Fulton toured the world on a 1930’s Douglas 350 (maybe it was a 300?), Ted Simon did his touring on a 500cc Triumph Tiger 100, and then there is Norly “Itchy Boots” riding the heck out of small adventure dual purpose bikes, albeit not much super slab highway.
I like the sport-touring segment of the motorcycle market, bikes that are sometimes referred to as, “a gentleman’s sport bike”. The Ducati ST series, the Moto Guzzi Brevas, The MV Augusta Turismo-Veloce are brilliant bikes. Some of these bikes are weighing in at 400 - 500 lbs. If you can do without the traditional touring motorcycle accoutrements, and enjoy riding in a bit of a tuck, these are smaller touring bikes. E.g., LowRyter’s lovely SuperSport. I have sat on of one of these bikes (not ridden done), and the ergos felt better for me than with my V11 Sport. More leg room and a better fit for my knees in the the tank pocket. I am 6’2”, and I ride the V11 2 hours a day and find that bike comfortable enough to tour on. The SS feels better. Check out the 2021Aprilia Tuono RR with a taller windscreen, higher bar risers and lower pegs. There is definitely a move for sport bikes becoming long distance orientated, or at least revisiting that market segment of the old K1200s, Ducati STs, the last series of LeMans.
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My 850T weighs 510 lb with fairing and full fuel. It's a dandy touring mount. My Mille is probably 25 lb heavier counting the extra brake discs and SP fairing. So 535 for a competent two-up touring rig.
It's a sad fact that the average American weighs 15% more today than in 1976. Over the same period, the dry weight of a Goldwing has risen 28%.
The average American today weighs 30 lb more than the average Western European, 40 lb more than the average Japanese. No wonder they send us heavier bikes than they did 40 years ago.
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I remember hearing many years ago that Disneyland had to replace the Small World ride’s boats with bigger boats as the the passengers’ weight had been increasing to where the old boats couldn’t cut it.
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Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.
Being able to maintain 60 is about 30 MPH shy of what is currently needed on most highways/.
If you are riding on SECONDARY roads, 250cc and 60mph is fine....but if you have to motor down on today's modern Interstates, you need a bike that will cruise at 75mph (minimum) IMHO, without straining, (or blowing up), the engine ...That has always been my criteria for a long distance touring bike...
...and of course, if you have the time, one can avoid the Interstates altogether...
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If you are riding on SECONDARY roads, 250cc and 60mph is fine....but if you have to motor down on today's modern Interstates, you need a bike that will cruise at 75mph (minimum) IMHO, without straining, (or blowing up), the engine ...That has always been my criteria for a long distance touring bike...
...and of course, if you have the time, one can avoid the Interstates altogether...
That's what I'm saying. I could tour on a 5hp mini-bike or 50cc scooter if I had the time. For me since vacation time is not unlimited I prefer a bike I can hop on and grind out a big day to get or to be able to stay in the good riding longer. Sometimes you just gotta get there or back.
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Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.
Being able to maintain 60 is about 30 MPH shy of what is currently needed on most highways/.
Seriously? Where? Around here, 75-80 mph will get you a performance award pronto.
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It really isn't the bike but the rider. 75% of $25,000 BMW GS bikes with $8K of farkles will never see an adventure. Then the serious rider will put thousands of miles a year on a bike 1/4 the cost that biker snobs would consider inadequate. This population has been raised by TV PR companies, that image is more important than reality. A $95K Land Rover with roof top tent is not needed to camp in the wilderness of the Sedona KOA. The smaller older motorcycles with high miles gain my respect at rallies, the posers do not.
I am 60 next year so my next choice; MG V7 E5 850. Hepco Becker hard cases and racks, a screen and a Seth Lamb seat. Ride the shit out of it as it was made to do.
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I have a 2015 FJ09. To me it is a really good mid-size sport touring bike. If the catagorie is sport touring, it can not be slow or poor handling.
Upright ergos (similar to an adventure bike, with wide high bars, plenty of leg room), high but narrow seat at 33", and frame mounted half fairing, hand guards, adjustable wind screen. Weighs 463 lbs wet. 200+ mile range (4.8 gal tank and 45 MPG) with lots of power (115 hp and 65 torques) and good adjustable suspension for sporty riding or high speed runs. Texas 2 lanes have 75 mph limits with most going 80+ so in my world it has to be able to run fast and long with quick multiple car/truck passes. Bikez says 4 sec to 60 mph and 11.25 sec quarter mile. Long maintenance intervals (26,000 mile valve checks).
The new Tracers are even better handling with electronic cruise, heated grips....
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"It's a sad fact that the average American weighs 15% more today than in 1976. Over the same period, the dry weight of a Goldwing has risen 28%.
The average American today weighs 30 lb more than the average Western European, 40 lb more than the average Japanese. No wonder they send us heavier bikes than they did 40 years ago."
I weigh 160 lbs soaking wet. My V7lll is way oversprung because it is probably set up for 200 pounders plus. My Audace could be more compliant as well. I would probably be more inclined to to tour on the V7 if it rode better. Something I will need to work on but aftermarket suspension is $$$$.
Speaking of heavy weight Americans I recently tried to find some narrow width boots. Redwing has always had them but no more. Salesperson told me that Americans are too big and they don't make them anymore because nobody can fit into them anymore.
kk
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"It's a sad fact that the average American weighs 15% more today than in 1976. Over the same period, the dry weight of a Goldwing has risen 28%.
The average American today weighs 30 lb more than the average Western European, 40 lb more than the average Japanese. No wonder they send us heavier bikes than they did 40 years ago."
I weigh 160 lbs soaking wet. My V7lll is way oversprung because it is probably set up for 200 pounders plus. My Audace could be more compliant as well. I would probably be more inclined to to tour on the V7 if it rode better. Something I will need to work on but aftermarket suspension is $$$$.
Speaking of heavy weight Americans I recently tried to find some narrow width boots. Redwing has always had them but no more. Salesperson told me that Americans are too big and they don't make them anymore because nobody can fit into them anymore.
kk
By the time you add in your weight, riding gear, farkles and a bit of luggage (backpack, tail bag or side cases with tool rolls and rain gear...). How much are our bikes really carrying? My Tenere 700 weighed 426 lbs on our shipping scale at work in stock condition. After the front crash bars, center stand, tool kit under the seat, tail /luggage rack and rear pannier mounts (used mostly as crash protection), it was weighing in at almost 500 lbs. My personal riding gear is 10 lbs summer and over 20 lbs in winter.
Poor little bike having to haul that much around... :cry:
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How about the BMW F800ST... 400 lbs dry weight, belt drive. Rotax parallel twin motor. Seems like a very practical bike, but BMW only made them from 2006-2013.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_F800ST
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I know a guy who rides that bike all over the US. Loves it. That's what I imagine a 850TT based motorcycle set up for road work would be like. Same ballpark.
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I've 'toured' with most any bike type imaginable. For a number of years it was Ferrying bikes for guys that wouldn't ride in the dark, it's too far, I don't have the time to ride all that way. Amazing how well that paid - most times. Curiously they were mostly bmw's.
Now that I've aged out of bikes weighing more than ~350#'s I'm back to 650's and smaller, plus 2 strokes for quick, indecent fun.
I still believe a DR650 w/correct suspension changes, gearing, wheels, tires and brakes could be excellent. There's large amount of luggage to chose from including aux. fuel, plus lighting, handle bars, electric grips, wind screens.
I've had a short stack of Moto Guzzis' for the last 25 years, but 2 SV650S's have done close to 200K miles,collectively, (many of them BBGolds), with never a whimper or flat. Do you want to Tour or repair? R3~
You just described the Suzuki Savage.
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You just described the Suzuki Savage.
Be careful you don't start WWIII of the Tightwads!!!! The Suzuki Savage owners make the Wild Guzzi bunch look like Rockefeller's when it comes to being stingy cheap bastards!!!!!
One of the most informative motorcycle websites out there:
http://www.suzukisavage.com/home/
If anyone ever wants a dirt cheap introduction to the Suzuki Savage without risking the cost of actually buying one, download this free CD:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1199986392
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Now that I've aged out of bikes weighing more than ~350#'s I'm back to 650's and smaller, plus 2 strokes for quick, indecent fun.
I still believe a DR650 w/correct suspension changes, gearing, wheels, tires and brakes could be excellent. There's large amount of luggage to chose from including aux. fuel, plus lighting, handle bars, electric grips, wind screens.
I'm in the same boat.
DR 650's can be made into any type of motorcycle one can imagine. No doubt not for everyone, but part of the charm is the tailoring to bike to your specific needs and making it uniquely yours.
DR owners who wish to save money should never visit this website: https://procycle.us/model/suzuki/dr650
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Be careful you don't start WWIII of the Tightwads!!!! The Suzuki Savage owners make the Wild Guzzi bunch look like Rockefeller's when it comes to being stingy cheap bastards!!!!!
One of the most informative motorcycle websites out there:
http://www.suzukisavage.com/home/
If anyone ever wants a dirt cheap introduction to the Suzuki Savage without risking the cost of actually buying one, download this free CD:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1199986392
:thumb:
I saw a couple converted to cafe bikes via a kit at Barber's. Definitely a cool inexpensive platform.
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Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.
Being able to maintain 60 is about 30 MPH shy of what is currently needed on most highways/.
I think you pointed out this phenomenon recently, but it's amazing how people always feel the need to take a simple question on the internet and pound it to dust answering everything else around it and usually not even answer the original question itself.
I'm surprised we haven't reached "Who needs a motorcycle when you can tour with a backpack and your legs."
But then the next guy would be like "Oh, you are gonna wear shoes, you big pussy."
The OP asked a question about bikes that come from the OEM set-up for touring with things like hard luggage and wind protection.
Anyone who has been around motorcycles for a few years (never mind the decades most here can claim) knows you CAN set up anything for travel if you try hard enough. But there are limits to comfort, capacity, and performance (from fuel range or steady speeds to 2-up accommodations and staying warm or cool or not getting buffeted all day).
I just got back from a short 1500 mile or so trip with Jenn. Now most of the days I was riding with her we were only covering maybe 200-250 miles a day. We can each do that on any bike we currently own/ride, no worries. So she chose her Duc. But logistics meant that I needed to start and end the trip with a 400 mile day and largely highway. And though I CAN do that on my V7, it is a LOT easier (and ultimately more fun especially when conditions deteriorate) on my TOURING bike.
For those that still aren't following, by TOURING I mean what most of the world means, the bike that is built, equipped, marketed, and generally perceived as a bike for long distance in comfort. In this case my RK.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLX5WOGNtdj5G4ARN7KhJYINBvEGNjO0NLQIzR7-9sS5951-F-xALALjecSzvWKsr_EbWJw5QIO1ATTVGVX4pkS7q8qpgB95EiMLq6-wQW4ZbkFDTo3BYBa3X3Uwo2_vR3Lu1DjAqLgf-1hHfOoyzPXiaA=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0)
Interestingly enough Friday we were making our way across part of the Appalachian highway in some seriously high crosswinds. I was aware of them because there was a little buffeting around the windshield. Jenn was aware of them because her bike was being blown around the road. So there's definitely something to a bike with a little more weight at times.
Honestly my RK is huge and sometimes wish I had a slightly smaller heavyweight tour bike. Harley makes one in the form of a almost 700# Sport Glide (complete with small removable fairing and clamshell hard bags). But you give up things to get that.
I can't really think of a smaller sized touring bike from an OEM that appeals to me right now.
If I was to SET UP a smaller bike myself for touring these days the V7 850 would likely be at the top of my list. But I wonder about attractively styled wind management for that bike. Could be a challenge, but a half fairing would be awesome. Still I'm not sure it could be sufficient
Anyway, here we have each of our "touring" bikes packed and ready for the final 400 miles home.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVFr1i1gaWGnPW7c5PYNVe9xun8XipIYlaRJi9vG9jwuGkElJKGxLLdJiCkbV8TR6ysudk8_J8qEvUasDaeV-UOquoLNDaVOa29qxwPcz-f34kU9zJeh4FApbxNyoigFE5gUKw_bnGdwPGB8xVEq-mQQQ=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0)
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Well said, sir.
Back on topic, a quarter or half fairing at most. The Norge was the first and last full fairing bike I'll buy. It's NOT bad, just not what I like. My Tiger 1050 with a decent sized cowl up front was really good-even at 28 degrees returning from WV in November (with heated gear). I know most Norge owners find them ok but after 5 years I realized it was just too hot for me-not enough air.
I have a good riding bud with the 900 yamaha touring version, whatever it's called, and he likes it a lot.
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Again, something like this would be fine...but for secondary roads only...NOT for today's modern interstates...
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2009-royal-enfield-bullet-500-electra-efi-raf-tribute/
Regarding fairings, some people "POO-POO" them, but I can tell you from experience, they are a GODSEND in very inclement weather, like riding through cold wind and cold rain. :thumb:
I used to also make fun of "heated seats / grips" until I had several Beemers and Harley's equipped with them. They are a nice and welcome accessory when you need them! :wink:
Moby Dick, aka, The Great White Whale, has two-stage heated grips / seat long with an electric windshield. EXCELLENT!!
(https://i.ibb.co/8XD5rWN/IMG-3133.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8XD5rWN)
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Guzzi Content Warning
And then there's the matter of price. Guesstimating:
For a new middleweight, factory equipped with fairing, bags, cruise control, heated grips etc, maybe $13,000 to $15,000?
Converting a new middleweight naked bike: Bike $9,000, fairing $300, panniers and rack $600, grips $100, maybe $12,500? Add a better saddle as needed and you might as well buy the factory-equipped bike.
Converting a used middleweight (my Mille for example): Purchase price $2,500, eBay SP fairing $250, eBay H/B panniers/rack $500, grips $100 = $3,350. If my time is worth $40/hour, installation is $300. That leaves around $10,000 to cover insurance, fuel, tires and normal maintenance for 50,000+ miles.
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLX5WOGNtdj5G4ARN7KhJYINBvEGNjO0NLQIzR7-9sS5951-F-xALALjecSzvWKsr_EbWJw5QIO1ATTVGVX4pkS7q8qpgB95EiMLq6-wQW4ZbkFDTo3BYBa3X3Uwo2_vR3Lu1DjAqLgf-1hHfOoyzPXiaA=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0)
Kev,
Is that pretty lady flippin you "da bird!"? Not only cute, but obviously a good judge of character!!!
God how I love that "North of the Mason Dixon Line" sense of humor!
"I hurt yer feelins? Fuhgedabutit!"
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Kev,
Is that pretty lady flippin you "da bird!"? Not only cute, but obviously a good judge of character!!!
God how I love that "North of the Mason Dixon Line" sense of humor!
"I hurt yer feelins? Fuhgedabutit!"
:laugh: :thumb: :boozing:
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This works great for me, and I'm Big!
v9 Roamer, I up graded the suspension, but that is not necessary.
Added Guzzi OEM V9 Touring screen $474. (works great, I forgot how less fatiguing ridding hundreds of miles is behind a good sized and designed screen is!
CBow rack $245, bags $150
Givi tail rack $150, fits all Givi top boxes. Now I'm a savvy shopper, so I didn't pay list price on much of this, but that's another story.
I sometimes also run with a magnetic tanks bags for even more space. That gives me, without a tank bag 86 liters of water proof easily detachable luggage, plus anything else I strap on the pillion seat.
I just got back from a 800 mile weekend at the WI rally, great time as always. This sub 500Lb bike, before I load all my shit and I get on, worked fantastically as a mid sized tour. Never lacked for power under any circumstance, was comfortable mile after mile, and no problems. Four gallon tank is good for a minimum of 175 miles; I do think it would be tight for two up touring, unless both riders were sub 150 lb, and even then I think it would be less than ideal.
I'm not claiming its the best way to tour, but it works pretty darn well for me.
(https://i.ibb.co/4s61H61/IMG-6757.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4s61H61)
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Well said, sir.
Back on topic, a quarter or half fairing at most. The Norge was the first and last full fairing bike I'll buy. It's NOT bad, just not what I like. My Tiger 1050 with a decent sized cowl up front was really good-even at 28 degrees returning from WV in November (with heated gear). I know most Norge owners find them ok but after 5 years I realized it was just too hot for me-not enough air.
I have a good riding bud with the 900 yamaha touring version, whatever it's called, and he likes it a lot.
I parted with my Triumph Trophy SE because it had too much weather protection. I couldn't ride in gear 5 months out of the year on it. I could wear a mesh jacket down into the 50s and be comfortable.
This is also why I traded the Road Glide Ultra. The radiators are in the lowers so they are not removable.
I can convert my Road Glide Special into a Road Glide Ultra with lowers, tour pack, and larger windshield for the cooler months, and then strip it down with just the fairing and shorty shield for the summer months.
Still, wouldn't mind if it weighed 300 lbs less. Only an issue when stopping on uneven ground.
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You wouldn’t mind if it weighed 300 pounds less!!
Think about that. Your wishing it lost over a third of its weight.
Glade I don’t have to sell that.
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Honda Groms are fairly easy to pick up...plenty of folks on ***rider.com touring on those...
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Here's my small touring rig earlier today.
(https://i.ibb.co/hs3Bmwk/20210804-123138.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hs3Bmwk)
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I just saw the same a couple of days ago at the Rio Grande bridge west of Taos.
This guy and his buddy on 'wing were riding down from Minnesota. They described themselves as OCD engineers. The Breva was surging/missing intermittently. Perhaps he contacted Matt in Alb?
(https://i.ibb.co/SyfVsbY/DSC01483.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SyfVsbY)
(https://i.ibb.co/HxpMx5r/DSC01484.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HxpMx5r)
I just noticed I got the bridge in the 2nd photo. Actually hadn't previewed the photo before I posted it.
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You wouldn’t mind if it weighed 300 pounds less!!
Think about that. Your wishing it lost over a third of its weight.
Glade I don’t have to sell that.
You would be amazed at where weight savings can be made when designing a touring bike from scratch. The problem is that the price would either make it unsellable, or the profit margins would be less.
the wet weight of a Harley Road Glide Ultra is 937 lbs.
the wet weight of a Harley Sport Glide is just under 700 lbs.
The goldwing tour is 837 lbs.
The BMW 1600 GTL is 771 lbs
The BMW R1250RT is 615 lbs.
So, I suppose I could move to the R1250RT, but the increased seat height might make it feel as heavy since I can't triangle out my legs like I can on the Harley.
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if the op's criterion was a bike with a true full coverage fairing (the only thing that gets wet in the rain at 60 mph is the crown of the helmet and the tips of the riding boots), then in my book, the RT is still the lowest weight bike you can get. 615 is not bad, but the seat is pretty tall and there is a lot of weight up high.
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You would be amazed at where weight savings can be made when designing a touring bike from scratch. The problem is that the price would either make it unsellable, or the profit margins would be less.
the wet weight of a Harley Road Glide Ultra is 937 lbs.
the wet weight of a Harley Sport Glide is just under 700 lbs.
The goldwing tour is 837 lbs.
The BMW 1600 GTL is 771 lbs
The BMW R1250RT is 615 lbs.
So, I suppose I could move to the R1250RT, but the increased seat height might make it feel as heavy since I can't triangle out my legs like I can on the Harley.
You're speaking my statistical language here.
I would love to see a comparison of those bikes with regards to ergonomics for both rider AND passenger.
Though weight aside the FLH platform does make quite an effective tour bike. I just gave mine it's annual bath following a service (mostly fluid changes). And I took her for a spin to dry off with the windshield, bar bag, trunk, and side bags all drying in the corner of the garage. It feels much smaller stripped.
For years I chased some sort of idea smaller 3/4 or so RK size tour bike - I looked at everything from the FLD (Dyna Switchback) or the Dyna or Softail Fat Bob (for dual discs) but with added windshield and bags. The Sport Glide is REALLY close. But the chassis definitely feels different and has less room. Plus you give up so much (passing lamps, front and rear crash bars, floorboards, ground clearance and lean angle, oh yeah and DUAL DISC brembos plus the RDRS system). I don't think 100# is worth it.
I sorta found my Jackal was a 3/4 sized RK, and same with the similar size/weight/power 1200 Sportster Roadster. But I definitely gave up comfort in terms of both room and suspension.
But there have to be trade offs, there just have to be.
if the op's criterion was a bike with a true full coverage fairing (the only thing that gets wet in the rain at 60 mph is the crown of the helmet and the tips of the riding boots), then in my book, the RT is still the lowest weight bike you can get. 615 is not bad, but the seat is pretty tall and there is a lot of weight up high.
:thumb:
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if the op's criterion was a bike with a true full coverage fairing (the only thing that gets wet in the rain at 60 mph is the crown of the helmet and the tips of the riding boots), then in my book, the RT is still the lowest weight bike you can get. 615 is not bad, but the seat is pretty tall and there is a lot of weight up high.
Yes I was thinking of a full fairing, factory saddlebags similar to the Honda Silver Wing I mentioned. So if we’re thinking 2-up touring, 500cc + and around 500 lbs, is that possible? Maybe the Yamaha Tracer with saddle bags and a touring fairing might come the closest.
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The FJ9 / Tracer is a nice rig. If you want a light upright tourer, hard to beat.
Beware of those behemoth FJR1300's. :grin: I understand the bikes are OK but don't be associated with the riders.
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I’m starting to see the reasoning.
If I could choose between a new V85 or a new V120 today for the same money, I would certainly take the 850 over the 1200.
Watching loaded ADV bikes pass me now, I am more enamoured by the look than I thought I would ever be. I reckon I’ll show the V85 a bit more love when I get home....
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The FJ9 / Tracer is a nice rig. If you want a light upright tourer, hard to beat.
Beware of those behemoth FJR1300's. :grin: I understand the bikes are OK but don't be associated with the riders.
Beware of FJ1300 riders? Why?????
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No one appears to have mentioned the F800GT, dropped by BMW last year, but a superbly capable 'small' (at 800cc) tourer designed as such.
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0wRZtCx/IMG-0496.jpg)
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willow: I think you may just have to have the weight if you are going to securely move around a bike with the kind of power made by the r1250rt. it takes a pretty solid frame to be prepared to handle 350 or more pounds of rider and passenger and 50-80 lbs of gear and support a full coverage fairing and tail trunk. while in its day, the small wing was a pretty cool bike, it didn't have abs and the module to go with it, didn't have 80-130 horsepower, didn't have wide (heavier near-sportbike wheels and tires, nor did its bags have the volume of today's bags and has been pointed out, we all weighed 15% less then. my last rt was a 2004 1150rt and it scaled at 630 and made 90 hp as rated by the maker. today's version makes 125 hp as rated and scales at 615. i am sure that if they could, they would have chopped more weight from it. I suppose an 80 hp version could in theory weigh less, but you know what comes next, people complaining about not enough power, and with 400 lbs aboard, they could have a point,
not trying to knock anyone, just contributing to a very interesting conversation.
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Beware of FJ1300 riders? Why?????
Meant as a joke with local riding buddy who has a 1300 and his wife has the 900. He's on the board. :wink:
I suppose if I have to explain a joke, it's not funny. :evil:
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F800GT is a good choice. I had three F800’s and never had trouble with any of them.
But now for something completely different:
(https://i.imgur.com/X4k0xEL.jpg)
60 hp, 120 mph top speed, ABS, electric windscreen, heated grips, heated front and rear seats, supremely comfortable. This is the 650cc model, which has been discontinued.