Author Topic: Aero engine rescue  (Read 398595 times)

Offline sign216

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #330 on: December 13, 2014, 06:04:32 PM »
Good luck in the rebuild, and in playing nurse.
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Offline gsf12man

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #331 on: December 14, 2014, 11:44:08 AM »
This is fascinating stuff . . . and may we also add our best wishes to you and Dorcia.

Tom and Nancy (we met you at the National and Wisconsin rallies)



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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #332 on: December 14, 2014, 03:32:02 PM »
This is fascinating stuff . . . and may we also add our best wishes to you and Dorcia.

Tom and Nancy (we met you at the National and Wisconsin rallies)





Thanks for that. We're gonna be fine, although I'm getting tired of doing dishes and housecleaning.. ~; :BEER: On a related note, if I see you again, and don't recognize you.. make yourself known. There's a place in your brain that stores faces and places. Mine took a pretty good hit one time. I may or may not recognize you. There's not much I can do about it. <shrug>
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
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 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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Offline Stormtruck2

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #333 on: December 14, 2014, 03:34:46 PM »
I never forget a face.  Names on the other hand.... :-\
If you wish to know what a man is, place in him authority.
False accusations reflect more on the accuser than the accused.
They can take everything from you, including your life, except your honor and integrity.  That you must give away.
Do or don't do. There is no try.
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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #333 on: December 14, 2014, 03:34:46 PM »

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #334 on: December 14, 2014, 03:44:11 PM »
I never forget a face.  Names on the other hand.... :-\

Matt, if I saw you somewhere that I wasn't expecting to see you.. I probably wouldn't recognize your face, either. Of course, you're so ugly, why would I want to?  ;D Lorraine, however, is a different matter.. ;D :BEER:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
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22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Stormtruck2

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #335 on: December 14, 2014, 04:02:11 PM »
Matt, if I saw you somewhere that I wasn't expecting to see you.. I probably wouldn't recognize your face, either. Of course, you're so ugly, why would I want to?  ;D Lorraine, however, is a different matter.. ;D :BEER:

Really can't argue that point!!   :D :D :D :D :D :D
If you wish to know what a man is, place in him authority.
False accusations reflect more on the accuser than the accused.
They can take everything from you, including your life, except your honor and integrity.  That you must give away.
Do or don't do. There is no try.
μολὼν λαβέ-molṑn labé

Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #336 on: December 14, 2014, 09:20:20 PM »
Nice to see up that things skirt.
Kevin
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Offline Guido Valvole

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #337 on: December 14, 2014, 10:19:01 PM »
@ Chuck and Stormtruck -- long (a dozen plus years) ago, I had a dream just before awakening. I saw the faces of everyone I'd ever met -- and could not remember a single (expletive deleted) name. and then woke up to the morning of my 50th birthday. Lol, true story, and hoping to meet y'all before we all check out.
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oldbike54

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #338 on: December 14, 2014, 10:38:27 PM »
Guido , only know Chuckie on WG , but let me assure you , 'Truck is ... how to put this so I won't hurt his tender sensibilities , OK , interesting  ;D
<running and ducking> , as Chuckie would say  :o :D

  Dusty

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #339 on: December 15, 2014, 12:16:58 PM »
Had an hour this morning  ;D so... let's see.. where were we?

Oh, yeah, I wanted to time the cam. So. Bring the 'Snot dis side piston to TDC. You'll see the aforementioned dot at the top of the crank sprocket.

Align the dot on the cam with it. I found the easiest way to assemble it is to put the little pin on the oil pump shaft at 12 o'clock, and start the oil pump sprocket first. Just enough to locate it. Then you can wrap the chain around it, the crankshaft sprocket, and then eyeball the cam sprocket to line up with the two mounting holes. Pretty easy, really.
Here, you can see the result. Notice the two dots?

"The Book" sez to tighten the two cam bolts to some crazy figure like 18 ft. lbs. My momma didn't raise no foolish children.  :o What I don't need at this point is to strip the threads out of the cam. 18 ft. lbs is more like for a hardened 8mm bolt. This one is 7. I decided to use my own judgement, and blue lock tite.  ~;
The Book does say to just tighten the nut on the oil pump shaft by holding it with a screwdriver. No torque given, as far as I could tell. <shrug> It's pretty self limiting at that point. Lock tite on it, too.

Now, all we have to do is install the cam chain tensioner. I've mentioned on the Lario thread that the engineers designed the small block after the big block, and they'd learned a fair amount. This is a much simpler, more robust design that is a no brainer to install. Just lay it in there, locate it by hand, and drive the screw. Done.

We could close up the timing chest now, except for checking the blow off pressure on the pressure relief valve. I'll have to *cough cough* BUY
a tap. (Guzzi content) Might as well get it ordered.  ;D
That hour went fast. This is fun stuff...
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

oldbike54

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #340 on: December 15, 2014, 12:32:12 PM »
So ... after rebuilding an exotic almost one of a kind engine , a nice simple R60 beemer motor should be a piece of cake , right . When should I show up  ;D

  Dusty

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #341 on: December 15, 2014, 12:44:44 PM »
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline twhitaker

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #342 on: December 15, 2014, 12:47:23 PM »
'Vee haff vays to make you listen.'  ;D
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oldbike54

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #343 on: December 15, 2014, 01:11:16 PM »


AW , c;mon Chuckie , what if I remove all of the badges and bring the beer  ;D After all , it is just another ditch pump  ;)

  Dusty

Offline Howard R

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #344 on: December 15, 2014, 01:15:58 PM »
You mean I have to b bbb buy a M14 X 1.5 tap?  ;D This project's getting expensive.. I have every 'Merican tap and die known to man. Well, almost.

The oil pressure relief only goes up to, what, 60 psi or so?  Seems to me you could use a short piece of 1/2 inch fuel injection hose (or some such that is already lying around in your shop) and a couple of hose clamps (Guzzi content) for a one time test setup.

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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #345 on: December 15, 2014, 01:22:40 PM »
The oil pressure relief only goes up to, what, 60 psi or so?  Seems to me you could use a short piece of 1/2 inch fuel injection hose (or some such that is already lying around in your shop) and a couple of hose clamps (Guzzi content) for a one time test setup.

Howard

Ooh, I *like* that.. FREE. (also Guzzi content)  ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #346 on: December 15, 2014, 01:31:53 PM »
AW , c;mon Chuckie , what if I remove all of the badges and bring the beer  ;D After all , it is just another ditch pump  ;)

  Dusty

Could I schedule a root canal instead?  ~; :BEER:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

oldbike54

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #347 on: December 15, 2014, 01:39:46 PM »
Could I schedule a root canal instead?  ~; :BEER:
Does your dentist supply beer ? ;D Trust me Chuckie , no simpler engine ever , heck , I can do 99.9% of the work , and we ALL know what that implies  ;)

  Dusty

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #348 on: December 15, 2014, 02:42:44 PM »
Does your dentist supply beer ? ;D Trust me Chuckie , no simpler engine ever , heck , I can do 99.9% of the work , and we ALL know what that implies  ;)

  Dusty


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<running and ducking>
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #349 on: December 15, 2014, 05:04:47 PM »
Well, that was instructive. I couldn't find any aircraft fuel or oil hose of somewhere near the right size, so scrounged some old garden hose.  ::) After all, we're not talking high pressure here.  Don't try this at home, highly skilled professionals, etc. etc.  :D
The Aero pressure relief valve started leaking at 55 lbs, and by 60 lbs it was pretty open.



Even at that, I did take a few precautions. Holding it in the vise kept from making a rocket, and wrapping the air hose around the clamp should keep it from taking off and smacking something, too.. hey, a guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do..
This sucker was leaking from the get go. By 20 psi, it was leaking like the other at 55. By 30, it was pretty open.  :o

Here's the exceptionally complicated valve.  ;)

The spring and piston is held on by a cap with three crush washers under it. Total thickness of those crush washers is .115". I tried taking all the crush washers off, and managed to get it up to 45 psi. I'm thinking that isn't enough, and am contemplating making a pin that fits inside of the spring with a head thickness of around .115" for some more spring preload. That way I could *probably* adjust the Lario valve to be the same as the Aero with the crush washer stack.
Anyone see any reason why I shouldn't? TIA.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #350 on: December 15, 2014, 05:45:49 PM »
Dorcia update: The cutter just called and said there were three small cancers in the right breast, none in the left, and none in the sentinel lymph node. We're happy campers right now, and thanks to all..  ;-T
Now. Back to the Aero engine..  ;D :BEER:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

oldbike54

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #351 on: December 15, 2014, 07:28:52 PM »
Dorcia update: The cutter just called and said there were three small cancers in the right breast, none in the left, and none in the sentinel lymph node. We're happy campers right now, and thanks to all..  ;-T
Now. Back to the Aero engine..  ;D :BEER:

I'm happy for both of you Chuckie  ;-T

  Dusty

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #352 on: December 15, 2014, 07:35:33 PM »
Very happy for Dorcia!

Online bad Chad

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #353 on: December 15, 2014, 08:09:55 PM »
I'm happy for both of you Chuckie  ;-T

  Dusty
:+1 :)
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #354 on: December 15, 2014, 08:34:54 PM »

Here's the exceptionally complicated valve.  ;)

The spring and piston is held on by a cap with three crush washers under it. Total thickness of those crush washers is .115". I tried taking all the crush washers off, and managed to get it up to 45 psi. I'm thinking that isn't enough, and am contemplating making a pin that fits inside of the spring with a head thickness of around .115" for some more spring preload. That way I could *probably* adjust the Lario valve to be the same as the Aero with the crush washer stack.
Anyone see any reason why I shouldn't? TIA.

Looks much like the piston in a Loopframe or BB OPRV. On Loops I work with the valve until it doesn't leak at all at lower pressures and has a very definitive "blow-off" (cyclic pop-pop-pop-pop noise) at approx. 65 psi. Adding or removing shims usually doesn't help. Most of the time this can only be achieved by lapping the piston to the valve body.
Charlie

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #355 on: December 16, 2014, 06:27:20 AM »
Can do, Charlie. Thanks for that..  ;-T
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Dick

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #356 on: December 16, 2014, 10:58:09 AM »
Dorcia update: The cutter just called and said there were three small cancers in the right breast, none in the left, and none in the sentinel lymph node. We're happy campers right now, and thanks to all..  ;-T

Excellent !!  ;-T ;-T
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 04:35:34 PM by Dick »

Offline Stormtruck2

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #357 on: December 16, 2014, 03:43:55 PM »
Dorcia update: The cutter just called and said there were three small cancers in the right breast, none in the left, and none in the sentinel lymph node. We're happy campers right now, and thanks to all..  ;-T


Fantastic!!   Best news I've heard since we got the results of Lorriane's testing. ;-T ;-T ;-T ;-T ;-T ;-T ;-T ;-T ;-T
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 03:44:17 PM by Stormtruck2 »
If you wish to know what a man is, place in him authority.
False accusations reflect more on the accuser than the accused.
They can take everything from you, including your life, except your honor and integrity.  That you must give away.
Do or don't do. There is no try.
μολὼν λαβέ-molṑn labé

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #358 on: December 16, 2014, 07:16:09 PM »
Alrighty, now.. let's continue with the *ahem* important stuff.. thanks to all. Really.
Since a couple of guys that know what they're talking about  ~; said I should check out the bypass valve in the Lario, that was the first thing on the schedule. Took both of them apart, cleaned, cleaned, etc. I still have several different grits of diamond compound from when I was wearing a mold maker's hat.. so used this.

Put a little on the piston, stuck it in, worked it all around  :o  ;D and took off the (microscopically) high spots. Cleaned, cleaned, did I say cleaned? Put the Lario valve back in the test rig, played with sealing washers, and got it to do the same thing as the Aero valve. Starts leaking around 40 psi, seriously leaking at 65 psi, and blows off at 75 psi. The Aero valve blows off at 77. Neither one did the motorboat thing, though.
Good enough. Thanks for saving me again..  ;-T
Installed that. Liberally applied the mix of 15-50 and STP over the chain, sprockets, everything in the timing chest. Why STP? After all, it's snake oil. It *is* sticky, though.. and stays where it's put. No telling how long it'll be until this sucker gets started.

Installed the alternator. I left the advance mechanism and Dyna stuff on the bike tied up in a baggie, so it'll get installed after the engine is in the bike.

Notice the two longer screws. They go at the dowel pin locations.

I *could* temporarily install the plastic cover at this point, but why bother?
Called MG and ordered a couple of oil filters for a small block. Cheese head said, "Which one?" Hmmm, didn't know they were different. Good thing I talked to a human instead of a web site. Asked him about the o rings that go under the rocker pedestal. He rummaged among their stuff forever.. and couldn't find what I needed. Took at least 25 minutes with me.  ::) Service? You betcha..  ;-T
And now for something completely different. If there is a Guzzi engine that needs valve cover/head protectors.. this is it.  ;D
Located the holes..

Transferred them to cad, and drew in the dimensions of the valve cover..

Then drew something that would keep the valve cover protected. Printed it out, cut it out with scissors just to see how it would look.. hmm.. pretty good. Laid it on the piece of aluminum I'd scrounged cheap (Guzzi content), and Uh oh. I either need to make an "engineering change" or find a bigger piece of aluminum.. ;D

Oh, well.. no hill for a climber. More tomorrow. Or not. Gotta go play doctor again..

 
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #359 on: December 18, 2014, 11:48:18 AM »
Yesterday, we spent the day in Indy going to her cutter for a checkup, then an oncologist. More importantly,  ~; ;D  I found the O rings that go under the rocker pedestal, and the longer bolt to hold the oil filter. "What's it go on?" You know the drill..  :D
So, I had a couple of hours this morning to finish it up. Naturally, I forgot to take a picture of putting on the o rings and torquing down the head for the last time.. you'll just have to use your imagination.  ;D What follows is what I do when putting together the top end of a new engine.
Remember the cam lube? It's good stuff, and I use it liberally. The valve train takes it tough on initial start up. It's not unheard of to do damage with a dry start.. so..

What I do is put a dab on the official Ancient Airlines Engine Building Bench, stick my finger in it and apply as necessary.



Don't forget the thrust washer

Or the pin. It takes a while for oil to get up here, and it is heavily loaded, too..

There's a slot in the end of the pin so it can be turned to install the locating bolt.

After it's back together, I set the valves at .006 and .008. Just guessing what it should be. We'll know after running it a bit. Then, liberally squirt the oil/STP mixture anywhere that goes up and down or round and round.  ;D

Valve cover goes on, and this job is done.

Maybe I should dot his eye? Lucky Phil might blow a gasket, though... ;D :BEER:
Still need to mark the flywheel. I'll do a little research, but will probably mark it the same as the Lario. More tomorrow, probably..
Edit for typo..
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 03:37:12 PM by Chuck in Indiana »
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

 

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