Author Topic: Aero engine rescue  (Read 398537 times)

Offline mwrenn

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #900 on: March 22, 2015, 10:17:16 PM »
I reckon you and I are both old enough to know by "feel"with neither a number nor tacho but off the top of my head with your long manifolds, that thing will be over by 7500, a little over rev safe but no point unless someone will get past you going into a corner !!!
Changing up for torque peaks gets you there faster in most cases, absolute top speed can be got with gearing if you need to try (dear--NGC)

I bent valves on my LM in 1979 trying to find out safe limit, since then I can hit float without hurting anything but choose not to, bad day when I do that again, grunt rules.
As a very famous tuner said to me recently, horsepower sells engines, torque wins races. Yours should have loads.

Roll on the roll on between the 3 hot rod small blocks, much better than any dyno runs
60mph, top gear, open the taps, vid essential WG viewing, sweepstake would be appropriate

Man, at 60 I'm in third gear....lol!  Two more to go....hit 126 mph Friday morning early...I'll post up a vid this week ~; ~; ~; ~;

oldbike54

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #901 on: March 22, 2015, 10:27:31 PM »
Now that Chuck got the plug chop guys aroused:

I'm thinking I could go one more size jet up. Not the best pics.
Any thoughts? 




 kD , looks like one size up wouldn't hurt . Of course , riding old Brits for years probably makes me prefer to err on the rich side  :) How does it perform at higher revs ?

  Dusty

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #902 on: March 22, 2015, 10:39:01 PM »
Man, at 60 I'm in third gear....lol!  Two more to go....hit 126 mph Friday morning early...I'll post up a vid this week ~; ~; ~; ~;

I could be in first, not the point, roll on at 60 in top tells all the stories, you "might" catch up but my money's on Chuck being far away.
However, a good BB would already be outside the bar, owner grinning !!!

Penderic

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #903 on: March 22, 2015, 11:23:18 PM »
Excusa if previously posted (I gave a quik look) I found an old pic that may be related .....


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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #903 on: March 22, 2015, 11:23:18 PM »

Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #904 on: March 23, 2015, 04:57:49 AM »
I could be in first, not the point, roll on at 60 in top tells all the stories, you "might" catch up but my money's on Chuck being far away.
However, a good BB would already be outside the bar, owner grinning !!!


Precisely why I lightened my internals/lowered gearing was to get better low-end reaction; it likes the switch. Mike, that's quite a change from the stocker!  :o. Impressive top-end.

Dusty, it's been a lesson since getting the bike and being WAY rich. I couldn't get out of the subdivision without fouled plugs. Ran great up top but between 3-4k RPM was coughing and spitting and would foul out. I put a smaller atomizer in it and started there and it ran smooth as silk. Up top it needed lots more so have gone from 150 to 168 mains so far. I'm sensing a hint of hesitation yet around 6k but once enticed it will now willingly go. That's been the sticking point. So, I will ride it again to make sure I sensed that correctly and put in the 170's. Reason I did the 264 atomizer was because of the lows/mids getting all misty eyed when fuel was thrown at it. Not so with the 264, but she likes the fuel up top no doubt.

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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #905 on: March 23, 2015, 05:53:47 AM »
No luck here on the studs Chuck.  Sorry man!!

Ok, thanks for the effort. I've not found anything, either. Time to order some stock.
126? WoW!

And.. kool picture, Penderic. Haven't seen it. Wish we could get our hands on two out of those three..  ;D :BEER: I'd even take the backwards one.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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Offline mwrenn

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #906 on: March 23, 2015, 07:43:34 AM »
I could be in first, not the point, roll on at 60 in top tells all the stories, you "might" catch up but my money's on Chuck being far away.
However, a good BB would already be outside the bar, owner grinning !!!


Ha ha!  No substitute for cubic inches!  Yeah, and Chucks engine is a torque monster I bet....Of course I'd catch the BB when he had to stop for gas... LOL
You are right, a 60 mph roll on it is!  We will see:)

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #907 on: March 23, 2015, 09:01:46 AM »
Ha ha!  No substitute for cubic inches!  Yeah, and Chucks engine is a torque monster I bet....Of course I'd catch the BB when he had to stop for gas... LOL
You are right, a 60 mph roll on it is!  We will see:)
I'll see  about strapping on a camera..
 


Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
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 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #908 on: March 23, 2015, 11:12:04 AM »
Oh! Like a dummy, I forgot to check what thread it is. Is it M8X1?
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
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 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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Offline Dick

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #909 on: March 23, 2015, 11:54:18 AM »
Oh! Like a dummy, I forgot to check what thread it is. Is it M8X1?

I'd guess them to be M8 x 1.25
This is just a thought, but maybe you would be better off using threaded rod. Good threaded rod is usually rolled thread. Cutting a thread with a die isn't optimum, especially for use in a head stud. Though, lathe cutting would be better. A threaded rod would also spread equal stress along the full length of the stud(in theory that is). I'm sure you method will work fine. Just throwing it out there as another option. The thought of it being different might bother me. :)  McMaster-Carr has some at a reasonable price. Good luck.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-threaded-rods/=wfpeww
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 11:56:51 AM by Dick »

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #910 on: March 23, 2015, 12:08:48 PM »
I'd guess them to be M8 x 1.25
This is just a thought, but maybe you would be better off using threaded rod. Good threaded rod is usually rolled thread. Cutting a thread with a die isn't optimum, especially for use in a head stud. Though, lathe cutting would be better. A threaded rod would also spread equal stress along the full length of the stud(in theory that is). I'm sure you method will work fine. Just throwing it out there as another option. The thought of it being different might bother me. :)  McMaster-Carr has some at a reasonable price. Good luck.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-threaded-rods/=wfpeww

Thanks for that, Dick. Great idea. M8x1.25 class 10.9 would do it, I'd think. Cheap.  ;D I would think that 25 ft. lbs applied to a threaded rod would equal 25 ft. lbs. applied to a stud. I won't let it bother me.  ;D
FWIW, if I would have cut them with a die, I'd have taken some pains and filed and polished the last thread area. That's where the stress riser is, of course.
When I have one of the threaded rods in hand, I'll turn the nut off the oem stud and see if the threads are ok. If so, I'll reinstall it. I'll bet it's boogered up, though.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
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 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline mwrenn

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #911 on: March 24, 2015, 12:28:18 AM »
I'll see  about strapping on a camera..
 



Torque challenge ride one. Full throttle roll on at 60 mph, in top gear.  2010 V7 Classic Quattro Valvole.  26 degrees C. 22 seconds from 60 to 120.  124 MPH top speed reached.  7200 rpm.  Whoo Haa!!


Offline Xlratr

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #912 on: March 24, 2015, 03:56:03 AM »
As a very famous tuner said to me recently, horsepower sells engines, torque wins races.

I'm probably not telling anybody anything new here, but strictly speaking it's Horsepower that wins races too. Every time.  :-)

If you weld a long pole to a wheel and hang a weight on it, you'll get lots of torque, but until the wheel starts turning, you won't go anywhere.

Torque plus RPM = Horsepower and it's Power that makes a motorcycle move.

Having more Torque is good, because the more you have at any given RPM, the more Horsepower you'll get. They're mathematically related.

A V-Twin will have good roll on acceleration because the higher torque at low RPM means it makes more Horsepower there than other engine configurations can.

Here's the formula:  Torque (lb/ft) / 5252 x RPM = Horsepower. That's why the Torque and Power curves on a Dyno chart will always meet at 5252 RPM (assuming the same scale).

So when we talk about good low end Torque, we really mean good low end Horsepower.


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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #913 on: March 24, 2015, 05:58:17 AM »
Alrighty, now.. ;-T I have it at 9 seconds.. is that right? Kinda hard to see the speedo. No way do I have anywhere that I could run to top speed around here.
Snow/sleet here yesterday. No telling when I can make a 60-80 run in fifth.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #914 on: March 24, 2015, 06:00:53 AM »
Yikes! Just got the invoice from McMaster-Carr. Had them throw in some misc. nuts and washers. They charged me $21 shipping and fondling on a $24 order.  :o
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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biking sailor

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #915 on: March 24, 2015, 07:19:14 AM »
Just throwing this out there...

Anyone else have hesitation using a full threaded rod in place of a full size diameter shaft with threads cut on the ends, from a stretch standpoint?  Yield to failure may not be a concern but stretch???  What say you leaned ones?

Offline mwrenn

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #916 on: March 24, 2015, 07:27:22 AM »
Alrighty, now.. ;-T I have it at 9 seconds.. is that right? Kinda hard to see the speedo. No way do I have anywhere that I could run to top speed around here.
Snow/sleet here yesterday. No telling when I can make a 60-80 run in fifth.
Yep, 9 seconds, 60 to 100.
On the stud issue, I would put the right thing in there.  Either get a stud made, or find one from another engine that is the right length.  That way there is no question about it.  Just my .02 cents.  ;-T ;-T

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #917 on: March 24, 2015, 08:22:48 AM »
Quote
find one from another engine that is the right length

I'd be more than happy to do that.  ;D there's kind of a limited selection, though. I'll see what Carr's threaded rod looks like. If they are rolled threads, I'll probably go with it if mine is bad. If they're not, I'll make one.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
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 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #918 on: March 24, 2015, 08:51:26 AM »
Torque challenge ride one. Full throttle roll on at 60 mph, in top gear.  2010 V7 Classic Quattro Valvole.  26 degrees C. 22 seconds from 60 to 120.  124 MPH top speed reached.  7200 rpm.  Whoo Haa!!



124 is doing damn well. Quite a bump from the stock V7. In those temps did the Speedo you were wearing stay on?? Were your feet off the end??   ;D  That was cool to see man, thanks.  ;-T
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #919 on: March 24, 2015, 09:51:57 AM »
Here's the formula:  Torque (lb/ft) / 5252 x RPM = Horsepower.

Good post.  One minor correction:  Torque (lb-ft) / 5252 x RPM = Horsepower
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #920 on: March 24, 2015, 11:12:11 AM »
Just throwing this out there...

Anyone else have hesitation using a full threaded rod in place of a full size diameter shaft with threads cut on the ends, from a stretch standpoint?  Yield to failure may not be a concern but stretch???  What say you leaned ones?

Yeah, I was able to get those threaded rods at Ace Hardware.  I couldn't find long bolts (missing center 4 on the EV sump), so I got the rods and nuts, epoxied it, and cut off the excess.  The nuts never broke loose.  I did find the correct bolts later. 

Just the aftermath of paying an experienced mechanic do some routine maintenance.   :-\
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 11:16:24 AM by LowRyter »
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #921 on: March 24, 2015, 11:28:01 AM »
Hopefully, this threaded rod from M-C is a little better than all thread at the hardware store.. ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
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 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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Offline johnr

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #922 on: March 24, 2015, 09:42:34 PM »
Just throwing this out there...

Anyone else have hesitation using a full threaded rod in place of a full size diameter shaft with threads cut on the ends, from a stretch standpoint?  Yield to failure may not be a concern but stretch???  What say you leaned ones?

Yes I do. Not sure why though, just gut feeling and general suspicion. It would I suspect be cheaper to make studs that way, so there might just be a reason why they don't.
Don't think I would do that in a stressed situation.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 09:43:51 PM by johnr »
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Offline RinkRat II

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #923 on: March 24, 2015, 10:15:54 PM »
 Tensile strength is tensile strength. The mass of the rod is what the ratings are based on , the thread pitch and count is where the holding power comes from.
  12.9 rating on a metric fastener is higher than a grade 8 in tensile strength by quite a bit and holding down a head and jug along with 4 or 5 other studs would be no problem.
     
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oldbike54

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #924 on: March 24, 2015, 10:17:00 PM »
 Hmm , Mwrenn will have his hotrod at Cedar Vale , Chuckie , c'mon man , the gauntlet has been tossed . Lots of room to do this thing , and we are on good terms with the local po po  :D

  Dusty

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #925 on: March 25, 2015, 05:44:42 AM »
Hmm , Mwrenn will have his hotrod at Cedar Vale , Chuckie , c'mon man , the gauntlet has been tossed . Lots of room to do this thing , and we are on good terms with the local po po  :D

  Dusty

Dang, I would love to, but we'll *just* be getting back from California, and it's a 700 mile interstate burn.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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Offline Dick

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #926 on: March 25, 2015, 06:19:12 AM »
Yikes! Just got the invoice from McMaster-Carr. Had them throw in some misc. nuts and washers. They charged me $21 shipping and fondling on a $24 order.  :o

Their shipping has gone up somewhat, just like everything else, but they are still reasonable. Either they made a mistake or your order was shipped from multiple locations. They will charge you multiple shipping in that case. Check your order again.

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #927 on: March 25, 2015, 06:26:42 AM »
Their shipping has gone up somewhat, just like everything else, but they are still reasonable. Either they made a mistake or your order was shipped from multiple locations. They will charge you multiple shipping in that case. Check your order again.

Yeah, that's what they did. All the small parts came yesterday. The threaded rod was shipped from Georgia. Naturally, they didn't tell me that I was going to get hosed.  ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
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22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Dick

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #928 on: March 25, 2015, 06:32:33 AM »
Just throwing this out there...

Anyone else have hesitation using a full threaded rod in place of a full size diameter shaft with threads cut on the ends, from a stretch standpoint?  Yield to failure may not be a concern but stretch???  What say you leaned ones?

Many cylinder, head, rod bolts have their shank diameter below thread diameter in order to distribute the clamping force equally along the full length of bolt/stud instead of it being concentrated along the thread minor diameter only. I remember when Honda came out with their CBX. They used conventional style cylinder/head studs only to have gasket leakage. They did a recall and replaced the studs with what looked almost like threaded rod, but not quite. They certainly weren't as beefy looking as the straight shank continuous diameter stud. Interestingly enough, I later dug into an older CB 350 Honda and found the same type stud as was used as a replacement update for the CBX. Though, I'm not quite sure they reduce the diameter to thread root diameter. If they are good quality rolled thread, I thing they may work ok. JMO.

Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #929 on: March 25, 2015, 08:10:17 AM »
As long as nothing catches a thread, I don't see how 25lb/lb won't equal 25ft/lb. it's simply a clamping force and as long as the rod holds up I see no problem. I think we're overthinking this like.
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