Who says you can't tour on a 'small' bike?

[backfill]

That's impressive, but that is not a small bike.  This is a small bike to tour on!  Two up, no less.

http://scootercanada.weebly.com/

[Daleroso]

You CAN tour on ANY bike. It all depends on your attitude & time. Especially on the blue roads. As one mag editor said a few years ago; the bigger & faster the bike you have merely increases the sped at which one day you will eventually crash. Dealers will sell any bike to any customer with little regard to age or experience. Re-entry riders with the $ are influenced by their riding friends and purchase to much bike, farkled it before delivery then go out & crashed. Last time I checked they were the highest percentage of crashers. A couple came into a dealer years ago where I worked briefly to get the lady her 1st bike. She immediately went over to the Honda VLX600. Her male companion snorted & informed her that she "wasn't gonna ride that little piece of sh__ next to him." Awesome advice & support Dude!

[Lannis]

That's impressive, but that is not a small bike.  This is a small bike to tour on!  Two up, no less.

http://scootercanada.weebly.com/

Young people, what are you going to do?   They'll do any kind of crazy thing.   

Although a Canadian from British Columbia rode his 1950's C12 BSA (a 250cc pre-unit single with a cruising speed of 50 MPH) from BC to Brimfield Massachusetts and back in 2006 for our International Rally, 6,000 miles.    Just locked the throttle wide open day after day after day and watched the plains roll by, he said .....   

Lannis

[Joe A.]

This is the crux of the matter. If you want to ride hell for leather and act the goat get a suitable machine.

For me at least 'Touring' is about the countryside you are travelling through and the people you meet as much as the pure 'Motorbike' experience, although that is a vital difference between a motorbike 'Tour' and a 'Road Trip' in a car.

For any of my US or Oz longer trips a V7 would be fine, as wod a CT110 Honda or my Mana or a host of other machines. When I do the 'Round Oz' trip we have planned with my mate in 2017 I'll be doing it on the Griso but only because I want to. Not because I need to.

Pete

This nailed it, for me at least!

[Travlr]

For those semi-serious about this subject I recommend the "Minimalist Touring Thread" on AdvRider.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/minimalist-touring-thread-250cc-and-under.201349/

I'm thinking the rumored KTM 390 Adventure may hit the sweet spot for small displacement touring.

Mike

[PeteS]

That's impressive, but that is not a small bike.  This is a small bike to tour on!  Two up, no less.

http://scootercanada.weebly.com/

Ok this one takes the prize. 3K miles in eleven days is pretty impressive. Most 50cc scooters only do about 30 mph.
Having done back to back 3.3K mile rides last month, 8 days each, I am impressed. Most of the time we were traveling between 65 and 85 mph but stopping to smell the roses along the way.

Pete

[Lannis]

We get impressed (I do, anyway) with people touring the country on 250s and Honda step-thrus and 50cc bikes.

Some people tour the continent on pedal bicycles.    If they can do that, we ought not be too amazed that someone can do it on a motorized bike.

Now if you're talking about Optimum Comfort, you can be like me and select a Stelvio over a Norge because the legroom is better ... or you can say "Oh, heck with a motor, I'll just pedal it myself .... "   THAT's hard core!

Lannis

[Arizona Wayne]

I read a blog on Modern Vespa about a guy who toured the country, even going up to Alaska, on a 50cc Honda Ruckus! Doesn't get much smaller than that. I think he took several months and did around 30,000 miles on it. That's small displacement touring!!

I read an article of a young Canadian who rode across all of Canada on his Tohatsu 50 2 smoke in the `70's w/pics.     Where there's a will, there's a way.


When I ride long distances it's to get from A to B.  Don't stop much to smell the roses.  But do smell everything else.    ANYBODY can travel in a car/truck.  It takes more effort to do it on a MC/scooter.  I want to experience everything around me.   

[pikipiki]

Robert M. Pirsig rode a CB77 Super Hawk on the trip he made with his son and their friends in 1968 on a two month round trip from their home in St. Paul, Minnesota to Petaluma, California, which became the basis for the novel Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance:
I don't know much about th cb77 but I'm sure it's pretty small by today's standards especially considering 2 up?

[PeteS]

Here is good read still unfolding.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/rach-ed-ride-the-tat-on-honda-c90s.1085263/

Pete

[jcctx]

About 15 years ago I camped next to a fellow on his way home from the Alaskan north slope. He was on a 250 rebel. Full camping setup and all. From somewhere in Indiana, if memory serves. Had been on the road since the end of the school year and would get home a week before the new school year. Do not remember if he was a teacher or an (older) college student. So, how small is to small?????

[Arizona Wayne]

Years ago I met a Guzzisti who lives in the Portland, Or. area who has spent his whole life frugally.  His name is Lloyd and he's a retired engineer.  He used to have Guzzis and his last big MC was a Ducati Monster when they 1st came out.  After getting a # of speeding tickets on it he downsized for good.  He rides his 200 Yamaha single all over the place including Baja.  Any time it needs something he is so cheap he fabricates it himself if he can.  His whole mantra in life is get by as cheaply as you can, even though he's smart enough to do otherwise.

[oldbike54]

 So what we really need now if for some 85 year old lady to do an around the world trip , unsupported , on a unicycle powered by a 10 CC model airplane engine . Would that settle this , or does she also need to be handicapped by carrying an orphaned kangaroo in front while also delivering bottled water to 3rd world villages ?

  Dusty

[charlie b]

Yep, tour the world on a bicycle if you want, or a tracter trailer rig.  Don't care.

Oh, and you can travel by motorcycle and not really see/experience any of the contryside any better than driving in a cage.  I just like riding a motorcycle a little bit more than driving a sports car.

And now I find that my 'big block' 850 is considered a 'small' bike?  Don't think so.  Maybe a 350 or less is a 'small' bike.  Heck, one of the Iron Butt Rally finishers this year was a 250 Kawa.

I would think the important part of the OP is that another woman traveled a long distance on a motorcycle.  Enough have done it that it is not very notable anymore, no matter how small the bike/motor.

[blackcat]

Sydney to London:

http://www.thepostman.org.uk/wp-content/gallery/1-australia-20/11-1.jpg

http://www.thepostman.org.uk/the-journey/

[Lannis]

Yep, tour the world on a bicycle if you want, or a tracter trailer rig.  Don't care.

Oh, and you can travel by motorcycle and not really see/experience any of the contryside any better than driving in a cage.  I just like riding a motorcycle a little bit more than driving a sports car.

And now I find that my 'big block' 850 is considered a 'small' bike?  Don't think so.  Maybe a 350 or less is a 'small' bike.  Heck, one of the Iron Butt Rally finishers this year was a 250 Kawa.

I would think the important part of the OP is that another woman traveled a long distance on a motorcycle.  Enough have done it that it is not very notable anymore, no matter how small the bike/motor.

It's only notable "culturally" any more, not physically.   There's no reason in the world that a woman in the right physical shape can't ride a motorcycle or drive a race car as fast and far as a man can.

Matter of fact, I don't know why women aren't regularly the world's billiard's champions.    A steady hand and eye, patience, and skill and practice, not physical size, is what's required.   Or chess, for that matter. 

Women will never play men head-to-head at golf, or wrestling, or football, or baseball; they won't be combat infantry Marines, and (if there's a real war on and not just a big sociology experiment) they won't be combat Rangers or Seals.   They're just not built that way.

But if it requires grit, and common sense, and an ability to choose the right path, and patience, rather than load-carrying ability and upper-body strength, then there's a lot of places in the world, including long-distance motorcycling, where a woman is going to out-ride us, so any man's ego better be ready for it!!

Lannis

[Rhodan]

That scooter ride across Canada is brilliant!  Adventure biking at its finest.  (Wind, rain, long stretches of dodgy roads, overcoming adversity, wildlife sightings, and run-ins with the local constabulary)

[ajwood]

I want to tour on a Vespa Sprint 150 but I can't find a road slow enough.

[Arizona Wayne]

I want to tour on a Vespa Sprint 150 but I can't find a road slow enough.

Good idea, since those small tires will last 3,000 miles each. 

I tour on my 400 MP3 to Guzzi events.  Some of the Guzzisti look @ all the stuff I carry and how far I've come and say to themselves, do I really need a bigger bike to get around?    No you don't really, unless you ride 2 up.

Heck, some have ridden their 250 MP3s cross country.  It's doable but I like to have more power available when needed.  1 guy rode his 500 MP3 from Florida to Alaska and back. 

[Two Checks]

Some years back a guy went round the world on a 250 cc.Honda Helix.

[JeffOlson]

I want to tour on a Vespa Sprint 150 but I can't find a road slow enough.

My wife's Vespa Sprint 150 will keep up with traffic on the freeway (60 to 70+ miles per hour). Even though Vespa officially says it will only go 59 miles per hour, it will go a good bit faster, WOT. The big issue, I think, for touring on a Vespa is fuel capacity. You really need fuel canisters strapped somewhere to the scooter. My Vespa 300 GTS has a 2.4 gallon fuel tank. It gets 70 miles per gallon, but your are really looking for fuel before 150 miles. My wife's Sprint has an even smaller tank, holding a mere 2.1 gallons. True, it gets better mileage than my 300, but you're still looking for fuel before 150 miles...

[Arizona Wayne]

My wife's Vespa Sprint 150 will keep up with traffic on the freeway (60 to 70+ miles per hour). Even though Vespa officially says it will only go 59 miles per hour, it will go a good bit faster, WOT. The big issue, I think, for touring on a Vespa is fuel capacity. You really need fuel canisters strapped somewhere to the scooter. My Vespa 300 GTS has a 2.4 gallon fuel tank. It gets 70 miles per gallon, but your are really looking for fuel before 150 miles. My wife's Sprint has an even smaller tank, holding a mere 2.1 gallons. True, it gets better mileage than my 300, but you're still looking for fuel before 150 miles...

My MP3s carry a bit over 3 gal.s so I carry a 1 gal. plastic can and it has come in handy many a time out West.  I get 70-65 mpg on my 250 & 400 MP3s riding 65 m ph.  My Aprilia 500GT scooter get's 55 mpg and goes over 200 miles per tankfull with it's 4.5 gal. capacity.

[motrhead]

  I used to tour on my RZ350 with soft saddlebags and tank bag. It was great...as long as I didn't get too enthusiastic with the throttle and drop the fuel mileage down into the 20s! LOL. It needs crank seals right now, but I will tour on it again soon.

[johnr]

....they won't be combat infantry Marines, and (if there's a real war on and not just a big sociology experiment) they won't be combat Rangers or Seals.   They're just not built that way.

Lannis

I think I would take issue with that Lannis. There are any number of nations that have shown that they are happy to have women in the role of front line soldiers.

I think the issue for some cultures, including mine, is not that the women can not do it, but that the men don't like it.  It's hard to kid yourself that you are fighting for home and family when the family is in the ditch beside you manning a machine gun and definitely in harms way.

As too small bike touring, when In the early 70s I was living in Auckland and working for Joe Lucas, an English girl came in looking for a set of points for her BSA which she had just ridden out from England. 

It was a plunger frame 125 Bantam!!! Must have dated from the very early 50s.

It was like this one;


The design brief for these things was that they get a man to work cheaper than he could go in a bus! Not world touring.

I was very impressed.

[guzziknight]

Another good blog about long distance touring, posting as he goes, on a Vespa:

http://singlecylinderpsyche.com

[rboe]

Regarding fuel capacity; I will fill up the Griso, depending upon stops, at 90-120miles. To and from the Datil rally I had two spots where I did 138 miles which is about my upper limit - and I had a couple miles to travel through town at the end of the leg  with other options if needed. But 100-120 seems to be about when I'd like a little break. There have been rare times where a 200 mile range would be very nice (Nevada for example) and certainly more comforting.

I find smaller bikes just too small to comfortably sit on for long stretches. More so as I age. I'd be pretty happy for most riding with a 450-600cc motor if it was in a frame that I could drape myself over. Sadly, the larger bikes come with the much bigger motors. And extra weight to boot.

We just had two gals finish Army Ranger school; still up in the air if the Army will let them become Rangers. They are the exception as most women that have tried failed (much higher failure rate than the guys, but women tend to fail on the physical bits were the guys tend to fail with the head games) so I don't think you'll find many women taking over those roles; but I do expect to see some there. Especially if that is what they want to do. When I was active in NRA Bullseye shooting, we had one wife dragged down to the range and within a year was out shooting her husband. Another gal, a grandmother from the western part of the state and an Olympic medalist, was looking to unseat our state pistol champion (I think she did, but I was out of the game by then). Pistol shooting is something like 90% mental; guys don't have the edge there (women don't either; pretty level playing field - it comes down to the individual and not their sex) so they need to pick up their game. :)

[Kev m]

Women will never play men head-to-head at golf, or wrestling, or football, or baseball; they won't be combat infantry Marines, and (if there's a real war on and not just a big sociology experiment) they won't be combat Rangers or Seals.   They're just not built that way.

I dunno.

I realize this isn't the same thing as an MO of combat marine or seal but it's not far off and it addresses some of the physical attributes of your discussion, as well as the peril of being in harm's way.

My SIL dropped out of college and joined the marines a month or so after 911.

She was already a 3rd degree black belt in Shotokan Karate who fought on a team representing the US in Japan.

In boot camp they noticed her strength and abilities and basically left her alone during basic hand-to-hand training.

Later in Marine combat training non of the women in her unit could take her in hand-to-hand and her male instructor challenged her to take him down. She did, effortlessly.

In the years she was on base at LeJune we visited and saw quite a diverse group of modern marines. She was definitely bigger and stronger than many of the males.

She served in Iraq (Ramadi for more than a year) during which time she constantly volunteered for operations. So much so the one day her sergeant told her no, 3 or 4 of her good friends (women marines) died from a suicide bomber at the checkpoint she would have been working.

Yeah, she was technically "logistics" but she certainly had the strength and capacity for combat and certainly faced some of the same perils.

I get the point that men and woman are different, and a much lower percentage of women are going to be able to match the physical abilities of a man. But there's a hell of a lot that has to do with combat that isn't just straight strength. As you suggest things like mental acuity/toughness, dexterity, and a host of other skills come into play and very much level the playing field. Hell, that sorta was the whole point of guns as opposed to swords in the first place.

[Lannis]

I think I would take issue with that Lannis. There are any number of nations that have shown that they are happy to have women in the role of front line soldiers.

The men don't want them there because they don't want to be fighting alongside someone who can't carry them out if they're wounded.

They don't want the sexual tension that comes along with it.

And what country lately who has women as front line soldiers has been fighting for their lives in a serious war?    That's what I'm talking about, not a "social experiment" like we use the military for now.   Is there a big strong woman somewhere who MIGHT be able to operate at the level of the smallest, least capable guy in the unit?   Maybe, but what does that mean in a service with 175,000 men in it?

My son-in-law in the Marines at this moment is tasked with trying to bring a group of women up to combat readiness, and it's a frustrating, failing effort.   And when my son was fighting in Fallujah and Ramadi, his outfit would have absolutely not put up with the limitations of having women on their rifle squad, just for the sake of "diversity".    Dirty, heavy-lifting, mortar-baseplate-carrying, hand-to-hand fighting in urban environments with 60 pounds of body armor and ammo, breaking in doors, knife-in-hand, spill their guts fighting?    Give up the "I am woman, hear me roar" stuff for the sake of 21st Century "feel good" .....

Lannis

[Lannis]

                                                         
 Really , the resistance to females in combat thing is based in nature . Until men can bear children , nature compels us to keep the ladies protected . Nothing to do with capabilities or a willingness to do the dirty work .

It has everything to do with capabilities, nothing to do with willingness.     

And the military is presently a social laboratory as much as a war-fighting organization.   Once (God forbid) we get into a fight-for-the-nation's-life war, all that will stop real quick, I suspect.

Lannis

[charlie b]

So, the 'average' woman is not up to combat just as the 'average' male is at a minimum level.

If you applied some of the standards being discussed half the men would need to be taken out of combat duties.  The common soldier/marine/sailor/airman is not some superhuman who can heft his 250lb team mate and run to safety.  He is a normal guy who has had some good physical training.

Yes, an 'average' female would need a bit more training to get up to speed.  Compare a 5'4", 110lb woman to a 5'4", 110lb man.

There are VERY few military units who have integrated combat units.  If they have combat units they are typically all female.  Some good reasons for that and most are cultural and related to living conditions.  The common theme is many of those units are feared a bit more.  Women have shown themselves to be a bit more ruthless in combat than their male counterparts.  Probably because of what typically happens to them when they are overrun.

I have no problem with women in the military at any level.  What I do have a problem with is applying different standards for them.  For years it is drilled in that a person needs to meet certain minimums to qualify for duty.  Then women come along and the standards are reduced because they are 'different'.  Fix that first.  Then address the social issues.

One last issue.  Assaults.  The military needs to crucify any and all who are guilty of such acts.  From privates to generals.  Not just make them retire or be discharged, put them behind bars where they belong.