Author Topic: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)  (Read 761 times)

Offline ohiorider

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I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« on: December 02, 2021, 09:07:02 PM »
I've had a few strange issues with the front end of my 2016 T120 Bonneville.  Forget that for the moment.  The T120 will most likely get traded.

So, here I am, with an excellent motorcycle dealer within 15 minutes of home.  They own 3-4 shops in the area, and they seem to really give a damn about their customers.  They're a multi-brand dealer, which includes Kawasaki.  That's of particular interest to me since I really like the appearance of the Kaw W800, especially since I owned a 2000 W650 that carried me through 50k miles with minimal issues.

Had an excellent conversation with the owner this morning, about trading the T120 on a 2021 W800.  The W is more in keeping with my age and strength, and I think would make an excellent ride for me at this stage in my life.

OTOH, I am really attracted to the looks of the new 850 V7.  However, my closest dealer is Cadre, roughly 200+ miles south of home.

If I was 10 or so years younger, that wouldn't bother me one bit.  But it does now, since I'll be 79 in less than 2 months.  Not as strong as I used to be, and not up to road trips for motorcycle warranty service.

However, I'm going to call Cadre and see if there is a deal to be made.  But there's a lot I need to consider, and I think I know the direction I'm headed.

Any thoughts?

Bob
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 09:10:27 PM by ohiorider »
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2021, 09:25:50 PM »
Manufacturer’s claimed wet weight:

2016 T-100: 496 lbs
2021 W800: 498 lbs
2021 V7 850: 481 lbs

If moving to a lighter bike is your main objective, I don’t see much difference between the three. If changing bikes is driven more by logic than emotion, buy the Kawasaki, enjoy the ride, and take comfort knowing your dealer is nearby. If it’s driven by emotion, well then I can’t help.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 09:30:15 PM by LongRanger »
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Offline Scout63

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2021, 09:28:21 PM »
The W800 seems like it is worth a long look Bob. The dealer is close and the bike is very good looking. Priced just over $9k, under 500 pounds (maybe), and probably won’t miss a beat for years. I hope they have one you can test ride.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2021, 07:14:34 AM »
I haven't ridden the new 850 V7, but if it is an improvement on the V7III it is a very modern handling motorcycle with some character.

I have ridden the Kawasaki and it rides like a 1960s motorcycle, but with better brakes, fit and finish, and a lot of character. 

Seat height and center of gravity are probably the factors you want to research closely since overall weights look close. 

When my stable was all Kawasaki, the W800 was the unicorn I couldn't get in the states to complete the genres of bikes I wanted.  That led me to my first V7.



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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2021, 07:14:34 AM »

Online Kev m

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2021, 08:39:20 AM »
Bob,

You said it plainly. If the W800 feels lighter/better to you. Get that.

I love my Guzzis but you made your case not to even bother with the V7.

On the other hand, have you considered the Street Twin? That's only 476# wet and slightly shorter than the other Bonnie's due to the wheels?

Manufacturer’s claimed wet weight:

2016 T-100: 496 lbs
2021 W800: 498 lbs
2021 V7 850: 481 lbs

If moving to a lighter bike is your main objective, I don’t see much difference between the three. If changing bikes is driven more by logic than emotion, buy the Kawasaki, enjoy the ride, and take comfort knowing your dealer is nearby. If it’s driven by emotion, well then I can’t help.

The T-120 is 520# wet, it's not the same as the T-100.


That said I wonder if the Kawi is shorter or narrower?

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2021, 09:26:24 AM »
Bob, if the T120 was running as nicely as it should you'd be hanging on to it, the weight, power and size are right.  You probably can't go wrong with either the W800 or the V7 850cc bike, both good choices.  Guzzis don't hold their value well, but that really doesn't matter.  The blue Kaw and the blue Guzzi are beautiful bikes, even the Centennial version looks really nice in silver/grey and green.  The Guzzi is a 6spd, the Kaw a 5spd, the range is probably good enough on both, although the Guzzi holds more fuel.  It might all come down to how close the dealers are to you. 

All of this is an ok problem to have, trying to figure out what bike.  It is just good to be able to continue to be riding and smell the roses any more!
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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2021, 09:33:29 AM »
Lots of choices out there today...The wet weight on a new Royal Enfield INT650 is 470 pounds.  Nice looking bike, also!



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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2021, 09:50:14 AM »
Im sure the modern W800 has ABS like a V7, I regard that as essential as we age
The Kawasaki is a nice bike but it's not a Guzzi LOL
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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2021, 10:04:21 AM »
Im sure the modern W800 has ABS like a V7, I regard that as essential as we age
The Kawasaki is a nice bike but it's not a Guzzi LOL

Here's a cafe version I've been trying hard not to buy (succeeding so far, but one never knows). Looks like a pair of tone rings on the wheel hubs to me. I must say the details are nice on this bike. It's a true modern classic. There's a lot to like.





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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2021, 10:15:23 AM »
Decisions, decisions, it’s nice to have decisions but it can get overwhelming ay.....
inditx

Offline MMRanch

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2021, 10:19:09 AM »
ohiorider

I just sold my W650 and kept the V-7II.   The V-7II has a Corbin that the wife likes.   But !   The W650 was easier to ride and had plenty of power.   The Guzzi has tubeless tires and the Corbin was really the deciding items

The long stroke of the W-model made it NICELY MANNERED !   :thumb:

Go test drive one and see first hand what I'm referring to.     The W-650 would "Wake-up" about 4,500rpm like the old Honda twins used to when they got to the 7k neighborhood.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 10:25:27 AM by MMRanch »
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Online Kev m

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2021, 10:22:09 AM »
ohiorider

I just sold my W650 and kept the V-7II.   The V-7II has a Corbin that the wife likes.   But !   The W650 was easier to ride and had plenty of power.   The Guzzi has tubeless tires and the Corbin was really the deciding items

BOOM - that right there says a lot.  :bike-037:

Go test drive one and see first hand what I'm referring to.

Uhh, IIRC Bob owned one for 40-50k miles. I think he knows about the W650.  :wink:   :thumb:
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Offline ohiorider

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2021, 11:59:34 AM »
Thanks for all your comments.  And yes, Kev, final mileage on the W650 when sold was 52,700 miles and almost 7 years of ownership.  An excellent little do it all (at least for me) bike.  The W (650 and 800) has been in and out of the international marketplace since 2000, and I would expect much of the design to be unchanged, aside from a disk rear and fuel injection and a few more cc's.  Here's my post to the TriumphRat site just after selling the 2000 W650.

   Posted: 2007-04-08 12:33

The new owner of my W650 is driving in from Illinois to pick up the bike tomorrow. After putting 52,700 miles on her, she still runs like new, and I'll probably regret the sale. As reliable as any bike I've ever owned. Though top end hp was 10 down (50 at the crank) on my T100's advertised hp, the torque curve was table-top flat. Red lined at approx 7000rpm. Tranny shifted without a clunk, and was smooth as butter.

Approximately 30-35 pounds lighter than a stock T100, and 0-60 times close to those of the Triumph, per bike mag comparisons.

Utilized a long stroke/small bore (undersquare) engine (72 x 83mm) vs the Bonnie's oversquare design (86 x 68mm), more like the original 650 Britbike designs.

The W650 came with lots of nice standard features, including:
- center stand
- chrome fenders
- alloy rims
- electric and kick start
- double wall exhaust pipes
- decent sound from the stock mufflers
- excellent headlight
- locking hinged gas cap (used ignition key)
- easily removed saddle (used ignition key)
- valve shims could be changed without removing the SOHC
- full tool kit with nicely chromed wrenches stowed under the seat

All in all, a nicely finished, well-designed motorcycle. Good value for the money, especially since the dealer where I purchased the bike couldn't get rid of them, and sold mine to me for $1500 off of MSRP. That was in August of 2000.

She'll be missed.

Bob
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 12:02:07 PM by ohiorider »
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120

Offline ohiorider

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2021, 12:06:18 PM »
Bob, if the T120 was running as nicely as it should you'd be hanging on to it, the weight, power and size are right.  You probably can't go wrong with either the W800 or the V7 850cc bike, both good choices.  Guzzis don't hold their value well, but that really doesn't matter.  The blue Kaw and the blue Guzzi are beautiful bikes, even the Centennial version looks really nice in silver/grey and green.  The Guzzi is a 6spd, the Kaw a 5spd, the range is probably good enough on both, although the Guzzi holds more fuel.  It might all come down to how close the dealers are to you. 

All of this is an ok problem to have, trying to figure out what bike.  It is just good to be able to continue to be riding and smell the roses any more!
All good points Thomas!  You're right, there are lots worse problems to have!

Bob
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2021, 04:16:55 PM »
I am beginning to wonder if one of the best choices of all would be an RE 650 Interceptor?  Low center of gravity, good enough power for highway speeds, accessories, lower weight, good looking and pretty decent prices (Guzzi content!).  Not sure if the 350 Meteor or the better looking 350 Classic has enough power to get on the highway safely or stop very well.  The 650 twin might fit the bill...just thinking about all of this here.  While I think the newer water cooled Triumphs are better looking, the price difference with the RE is not worth the difference in price, I think.  Good luck with your decision.
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Offline henwilv

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2021, 04:25:02 PM »
I am beginning to wonder if one of the best choices of all would be an RE 650 Interceptor?  Low center of gravity, good enough power for highway speeds, accessories, lower weight, good looking and pretty decent prices (Guzzi content!).  Not sure if the 350 Meteor or the better looking 350 Classic has enough power to get on the highway safely or stop very well.  The 650 twin might fit the bill...just thinking about all of this here.  While I think the newer water cooled Triumphs are better looking, the price difference with the RE is not worth the difference in price, I think.  Good luck with your decision.

Or maybe the newish Triumph Trident 660 which is nearly 20kg/44lbs lighter than the Enfield. It also chucks out 81hp so it won't be slow.

Offline jas67

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2021, 06:38:41 PM »
I'll just leave this right here.....

You wonder if this will precipitate an interesting introduction from RE to combat this?  Maybe a 500cc Meteor or the 650 twin motor into a Himalayan like machine, etc, etc,  Very interesting.  I hadn't heard about this one before.  Wonder if we'll see it in the U.S. in '22?  Looks like a beautiful machine.  I was thinking that the "resurrected" Jawa by Mahindra would find its way to the U.S. by now...but not yet.  Some interesting machines are on the market, just not in the U.S.
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Offline mechanicsavant

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2021, 07:58:29 AM »
See “heart vs. head “posted elsewhere on this forum!

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2021, 02:24:48 PM »
  Has everyone decided to ignore the dramatic lack of power between those choices and the T-120 ? Or was the 2016 model
a dog ? Kinda curious .  Peter

Offline ohiorider

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2021, 02:42:37 PM »
Nah ..... the T120 is certainly not a dog.  The power thing just isn't a big deal to me.  I'm riding less now than in past years, and staying closer to home.  There were times the garage was occupied by 3 bikes, with hp ranging from 50hp to 130hp. I took whatever bike struck my fancy that day and thoroughly enjoyed the ride, whether W650 or K1200RS
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
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Offline greer

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2021, 05:39:53 AM »
How about that new Kawasaki Retro Sport Z650RS, 412 lbs wet.  I'll have to take a look at it.

Sarah




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Offline Dave Swanson

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2021, 06:08:23 AM »
Nice little problem to have.  You can't go wrong either way Bob.   These days being only 200 miles from one of the very best Guzzi dealers in the country is a big plus.   I just bought my V7-850 from Cadre and I am double that miles away.

Since one of the main factors is lighter weight and since there is no meaningful difference in weight between the 2,  I would always pick the new V7 over the W800 every time.  Being a Guzzi fan boy there is no contest between the 2  for all the usual reasons; shaft drive,  love the new 850 engine. And the V7 is 15 lbs. lighter.   :grin: 

Having a great dealership almost next door is a comfort I suppose.  The fact that you've had experience with a W650 in the past also means you know what you will be getting and it seems you like it. 

I do think that the W800 along with the Honda Cb1100 are the 2 prettiest retro classics.

The W800 is quite stunning, especially in blue!! And it has lots of shiny bits to polish when you aren't riding for something to do.   :grin: 

I applaud you at 79 to be buying a new bike.  I hope I am the same way in 12 years.  At 79 (or any age) you certainly have earned the right to buy whatever you want!



« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 06:11:58 AM by Dave Swanson »
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Online lucky phil

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2021, 09:14:26 PM »
Compared to the Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 the Kawasaki has a 120cc larger engine for the same HP, beyond retro, now just plain weird 19" front wheel, 27kg extra weight, no slipper clutch, 5 speed gearbox not 6 speed, Japanese bike spare parts costs and it's $3000 dearer on the road. You'd have to be crazy to buy one of these over the Interceptor. Oh and more affordable aftermarket accessories than you can imagine. It's already nearing "cult" status as a std bike let alone as a canvas for every "modifier" and "personaliser" out there.

Here's mine.





Ciao
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 09:19:18 PM by lucky phil »
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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2021, 09:20:37 PM »
See “heart vs. head “posted elsewhere on this forum!

+1  :thumb:

Offline Dimitri_Harkov

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Re: I'm going to go lighter (I think!)
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2021, 01:29:12 AM »
@lucky phil:

These are all vaild points, but the W800 still offers things the RE 650s just don't have.

-noticeable more torque
-it just looks classier. One really has to see it in person
-the seats are from different worlds - while the RE feels like sitting on a blunt blade at best, the W800 is really comfy
-it sounds great in stock form already. Not that the RE sounds bad, but still.
-the nowadays rather unique shaft and bevel gear driven overhead cam also attracts some people
-probably a step up quality-wise too.

Still, it was never really in the game for me for your reasons (in the end it was V7 vs RE 650) - but I can see people buying it if they want the things above and don't mind the extra cost.

Cheers,
D.

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Harper's Moto Guzzi : Go Ride , Break Parts, Call me!
Harper's Moto Guzzi. Where we still answer the phone, use the highest quality parts, and also do Transmission, rear drive, and carb rebuilds fast. Call us at 816.697.3411 and get your problems resolved.
http://www.harpermoto.com
Advertise Here