NGC New BSA Gold Star

[SmithSwede]

So  you have an air cooled car or truck?

I’m sorta kidding.   But I am opposed to poison-mobiles and don’t understand why folks hate dogs.  

I don’t travel by truck or car.  An honest air-cooled Guzzi gets me around 97% of the time.  Otherwise it’s an air cooled Ducati.  I do have a poison-cooled BMW F650 Funduro, but that was Dusty’s idea. 

In all seriousness, I liked the idea of a reincarnated BSA Gold Star.  The poison cooling and radiator really does kill it for me.   Not my cup of tea, but I hope they do well.  Looks like an honest, fun bike. 

[tazio]

The exhaust header appears too big, and there is something odd about the forks.  Liquid cooling, seems out of place.

That may be a shield covering the length of the header..

[Moto Vita]

As much as I lean toward air-cooled bikes, one simply can’t look past the difference that it helps with power. So fun to see thumpers putting out some power AND torque. Curious if the build quality will match the power hype. Overall this Goldstar certainly looks more polished than the 650 INT, IMO. Except that dang chubby exhaust. I’m sure a good aftermarket stainless steel pipe would look better.

 I imagine that riders who want top performance won't be buying a 650 single. They're selling nostalgia, not performance, as evidenced by the rear shocks.

[SIR REAL ED]

That may be a shield covering the length of the header..

yep.  I wouldn't be surprised if it is a double or even a triple wall pipe to prevent discoloring.

[SIR REAL ED]

The engineers and designers at Mahindra and other car/cycle companies can identify with how supermodels feel.

Ya bust yer ass to overcome a million techincal/production challenges to get a product manufactured or to look great.... and someone in the peanut gallery says:

"the pipe is too big!"
"I don't like the radiator!"
"her ass is too big!"
"her tits are too small!"

 

[Dirk_S]

I imagine that riders who want top performance won't be buying a 650 single. They're selling nostalgia, not performance, as evidenced by the rear shocks.

I didn’t say they would be looking for top performance. But this single is putting out comparable power to the 650 INT, W800, V7, so why wouldn’t it steal some of those buyers? An Enfield Bullet doesn’t hold a candle to the performance of midweight bikes, but this one is right in the mix.

[9fingers]

I didn’t say they would be looking for top performance. But this single is putting out comparable power to the 650 INT, W800, V7, so why wouldn’t it steal some of those buyers? An Enfield Bullet doesn’t hold a candle to the performance of midweight bikes, but this one is right in the mix.

I think you are correct. People that buy Enfields, W800 and current Moto Guzzi's aren't looking for top performance or they would be buying something else. On the other hand, I feel the need to defend my lovely Sophia.......The V7III has approx 14% more power and the new V7 nearly 30% more, than the claimed power of the new BSA...so not sure one would say that is comparable. I will test the BSA when it comes out and maybe buy one after 2 years of teething issues. Classic Legends had plenty of problems with the early Jawa bikes, enough so that the CEO of Mahindra stated publicly that he was sorry he got into the motorcycle business. Great way to turn off potential customers..........
Scott

[Dirk_S]

The  V7III has approx 14% more power and the new V7 nearly 30% more, than the claimed power of the new BSA...so not sure one would say that is comparable.

Don’t forget that these horsepower claims come from brake hp, which is significantly more than rear wheel hp on shaft-driven bikes compared to chain or belt-drives. I’ve seen mentions as much of a 20% loss in older shaft-driven bikes, which may be an erroneous number, or simply too generic for so many different bike models produced throughout the years. The newer small block Guzzis appear to be more like a ~10% loss. Chain drive is definitely less than that.

Attached are dynos for the V7 II and III:






V7 II (mine):
Engine Capacity: 750cc
Brake hp: 46 hp
Dyno’ed RWhp: 41.7 hp (~10% loss)
Torque: 39.8 lb-ft
Curb Weight (claimed): 454

V7 III:
Engine Capacity: 750cc
Brake hp: 52 hp
Dyno’ed RWhp: 48 hp (~9% loss)
Torque: 44.3 lb-ft
Curb Weight (claimed): 461-470 lb

New V7 850:
Engine Capacity: 850cc
Brake hp (claim): 65 hp
RWhp (my assumption): 58.5 RWhp (~10% loss)
Torque (claim): 54 lb-ft
Curb Weight (claimed): 480 lb

New BSA Gold Star:
Engine Capacity: 650cc
Brake hp (claim): 45 hp
RWhp (my assumption): 42.7 hp (~5% loss)
Torque (claim): 40.5 lb-ft
Curb Weight (claimed): 469.5 lb

Compared to MY V7, it’s definitely comparable. Would need dynos and recorded actual wet weights of all bikes to help truly figure it out. Regardless, they all still seem comparable to me… much more so than a classic air-cooled thumper.

[Chuck in Indiana]

 There are low-tox options . For a dirtbike that might get ridden in remote places air cooling is the dog's meow , for a street bike will there ever be a real issue . I'm holding out for an E bike anyway .

 TS

The perfect dirt bike will be electric. Instant torque, no noise. <shrug>
FWIW, many years ago, I found this MZ in a pile. Cheap. (Guzzi content)  Uses the Yamaha 660 single. I put the coolant in it, closed the cap, and that is the last time I've even thought about cooling. Get stuck in LA traffic where you can't lane split? No problemo. The fans kick on as necessary..

[9fingers]

Excellent infor Dir_S! I had not seen these dyno curves nor did I know about the extra losses for shaft drive. And now I see why my bike gets to be so much fun at 4,000 rpm.
Scott

[grebmrof]

That may be a shield covering the length of the header..

That is a shield.  The exhaust pipe is routed under the bike thru probably a catalytic converter and then out again.  The shield makes the exhaust look continuous and on to the muffler.  The water cooled Triumph Bonnevilles do exactly the same thing with exhaust routed into and out of a cat converter at the front of the engine - the shield or shroud makes the exhaust pipe look like one continuous pipe.  Interesting disguise...

[tazio]

Thanks for confirmation.
Suspected it was.

[henwilv]

The engineers and designers at Mahindra and other car/cycle companies can identify with how supermodels feel.

Ya bust yer ass to overcome a million techincal/production challenges to get a product manufactured or to look great.... and someone in the peanut gallery says:

"the pipe is too big!"
"I don't like the radiator!"
"her ass is too big!"
"her tits are too small!"

 

Life's a bitch and then you die!
As far as I'm concerned:
The first two criticisms are valid
The last two aren't!

[Dirk_S]

An old BSA rider with some inside scoop from the manufacturers says there are some in India right now with 90 hp:

https://youtu.be/yzAqeSCLZrI

[huub]

90 HP out of a single?
even with a more cc, that sounds pretty unlikely,
that would have been a winner in the SOS singles racing class.
outpowering exotica like the supermono or the woods rotaxes.

[Dirk_S]

90 HP out of a single?
even with a more cc, that sounds pretty unlikely,
that would have been a winner in the SOS singles racing class.
outpowering exotica like the supermono or the woods rotaxes.

I doubt it’s a single. Was assuming they maybe have another engine in development that they’re farting around with.

[Dimitri_Harkov]

I think so too.
At least rumour has it they will launch a twin soon.

Cheers,
D.

[Dirk_S]

Following up on the 90 hp bike that I mentioned was rumored. Looks like the company got a big grant from the UK to develop electric bikes, so perhaps that 90 hp bike is an electric one. No electric bikes = no financial aid to produce.

https://www.webbikeworld.com/bsa-is-back-weve-evolved-but-our-dna-remains-unaltered/

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Interesting article, particularly this section:

The large capacity single-cylinder is all but dead in the modern era, especially in markets with strict emission norms. However, with its 652cc capacity, a 4-valve, dual overhead camshaft (DOHC), liquid-cooled design and the drive chain on the right side, the Gold Star’s engine looked very similar to an engine we have experienced in India in the distant past – the one used on the BMW F650 Funduro from well over two decades ago. This engine was built by Austrian engineering firm Rotax, and the new BSA motor is also licensed from them.

Understandably, the BSA motor is a heavily reworked, modernised version with fuel-injection and Euro 5 compliance. The enormous task of meeting modern emissions and refinement standards was handled in conjunction with the highly respected Technical University of Graz, in Austria. TU Graz also handled the visual design of the engine, which is completely different from the base Rotax engine, and made to look as similar to the original Gold Star singles as possible.

https://www.autocarindia.com/bike-news/bsa-gold-star-engine-india-launch-details-revealed-422907

[JJ]

By the way...speaking of way cool 500cc "cult-classic" Honda's...these were always a favorite of mine!




give kids the world village

[jetmechmarty]

Regarding dealer network for these emerging brands, I recently discovered that Bumpus Harley-Davidson in Memphis, TN is now a Royal Enfield dealer.  To me, something like that could be a game changer.  If I want a new MG, the closest dealer is five hours away.  A new Triumph dealer is three hours away.  Royal Enfield at 45 minutes changes the picture.  I see it as a good opportunity for a HD dealer since the Sportster has been removed from that price point market.  So, BSA won't sell without dealers, just like everyone else.

As a side, I don't see the big single BSA as direct competition to the RE twin, but more as filling the gap left when RE dropped the 500 single.  I think they'll have different buyers in the retro market.  Of course, the important thing will be price and availability.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

By the way...speaking of way cool 500cc "cult-classic" Honda's...these were always a favorite of mine!

My friends Carol and Joe had a pair, I made luggage for them.

[Beowulf]

well im late to the party but BSA being brought back is pretty neat (like many Im a sucker for vintage marketing in motorcycles). I have talked to few older gentlemen who told me about their BSA motorcycle with a gleam in their eye. I looked at the specs for the royal enfield seems pretty comparable in power. I wonder if their will be a difference in gearing compared to the enfield and whether this will push Enfield into liquid cooling for the 650. Overall I hope they do well. I think Royal enfield probably has the advantage in dealer network at this point but I hope to see them in US.

[grebmrof]

Well it seems that Motorcycle "Daily" belatedly has heard about the reintroduction of the Gold Star.  Yesterday they posted this:

https://www.motorcycledaily.com/2021/12/2022-bsa-gold-star-debuts-when-the-past-becomes-present/

Nothing new that you haven't read if you've been following this thread.  Hope Mahindra is successful in establishing a U.S. dealer network for their retro, that the pricing is competitive with RE and that the quality is top notch too.  It will be interesting to watch this unfold!

[JJ]

I like it!!! - - and I hope it comes to the USA soon!!

[9fingers]

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/2022-bsa-gold-star-first-look-preview/

[JJ]

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/2022-bsa-gold-star-first-look-preview/

Interesting comment from that article...

Here’s to hoping Mahindra utilizes their existing dealer network for reintroducing BSA to the US market - lack of dealerships is a problem that this move could solve. With the US being such a small part of the worldwide motorcycle market these days starting up new dealerships or selling franchises to existing ones must be a struggle. There are two Mahindra shops less than a half hour from my house - the closest Royal Enfield or Triumph shops are over an hour away.

[grebmrof]

Interesting comment from that article...

Here’s to hoping Mahindra utilizes their existing dealer network for reintroducing BSA to the US market - lack of dealerships is a problem that this move could solve. With the US being such a small part of the worldwide motorcycle market these days starting up new dealerships or selling franchises to existing ones must be a struggle. There are two Mahindra shops less than a half hour from my house - the closest Royal Enfield or Triumph shops are over an hour away.

Those interesting comments were not made by the CycleWorld writers but by someone commenting afterwards with a pretty logical thought about a Mahindra dealer network.  Mahindra has more dealers within 250 miles of Cleveland, OH than I think Guzzi has in the entire country - interesting.  Not sure what some of those dealerships look like but...  I didn't get a count of Mahindra dealers throughout the whole country, but believe they may be in the hundreds.  It might seem like a logical choice to use some of these dealers to handle their new BSA retro bike.  See this Mahindra website for dealers in your state (scroll down on this website for state by state queries):  https://www.mahindrausa.com/--locate-a-dealer

[tazio]

Mmm? I've got one within 25 miles of me, though it IS an ACE Hardware store...

[grebmrof]

Mmm? I've got one within 25 miles of me, though it IS an ACE Hardware store...

I think that was the way that Honda started in many places...I hope Mahindra gets off to a good start, their new Gold Star is a beauty!  I hope they sell boat loads of them.