Dealer repair shenanigans (NGC)

[yackee]

My wife took our 2012 Honda Pilot to the dealer today for a regularly scheduled service. She comes back telling me that they said we need new brake pads and rotors. I say, "but hey, they changed out the rotors a couple of years ago, they can't be worn out yet." She shrugs and says, "that's what they said." I look at the estimate and see the following text: "Front and rear brakes and rotors are recommended for replacement for reasons of incorrect installment. Little brake padding material left, and uneven rotor wear and damage."

Now, the only place we have ever had work done on this car is the same dealer! So the only person who could have "incorrectly installed" the brakes are the people that are asking for $1,000 for a new set of brakes. Wild. What do you think the chances are of me convincing them to give me new brakes for free or at a discount? This seems outrageous. They are a major local Honda dealership. I assume it's better to send the wife to complain rather than me? I hate conflict.

[berniebee]

Seems to me if they actually wrote "Incorrect installment" and you have the receipt for the last brake job, that you have an open and shut case for free rotors, at the very least.
I'm conflicted about conflict myself, but armed with this documentation, I would politely point out the obvious to the service manager and see what they say. If not satisfied, I would ask what they would do if THEY were a small claims court judge who saw this case. I would practice my spiel ahead of time.

[fotoguzzi]

I wonder if the original receipt tells who the mechanic was doing the job, and does he still work there? Or the dealership records should show.. have them look up the old repair order, surely it’s right there on computer.  ask for a different tech to repair the incorrect job.

[bigbikerrick]

Find a different shop. A good independent shop, or a "specialized brake shop" like brake masters, for a second opinion. I think you will save some money that way. I have a CRV and `had a brake shop do the complete brakes with rotors, for less than $600.  Dealers usually hire kids right out of school as long as they are certified, and they work flat rate.  I dont like someone in a big hurry to make more money, to work on my car, especially the brakes.
Rick

[Cam3512]

I don’t mind conflict, when I’m right.  Armed with that info/evidence I’d look forward to heading back there and letting ‘em have it! 

They’re saying “we screwed it up last time, so let us do it again then pay us another $1,000”.

That would be fun…

[egschade]

I would expect a Honda dealer to have complete records of any service they provide so you don't even need a receipt. All they have to do is look it up in the computer. My Honda dealer has a customer portal where I can see my service records so see if yours has the same.

With that info it's not being confrontational. Just show them (or have them look) that they did the last brake service and politely ask them how they intend to address their own 'incorrect installation'. Pull in the service manager if you're not satisfied with the answer.

[Navydad]

Was the job really done incorrectly the first time or are they trying to take advantage of an unknowing female car owner? Hard to believe I know, but it does happen. Job done incorrectly or taking advantage. Either way I would get my ducks in a row and jump stiff legged on the service managers desk. Time to find another Honda dealership or a good independent guy.

[Stretch]

Find a good independent guy. I'd be done with that dealer's maintenance
department for sure.

I was quoted $600 for rear brakes on my Honda Element by the
local dealer - including, get this - $100 to change the brake fluid!!!
Lots of dealerships add items/prices to the manufacturer's service
schedule to pad the bottom line. Sometimes they'll even do 'em, too......   

Way less than half of that with my local guy, who also happens to be
my next door neighbor. He used to work for that dealership, too.......

Generally speaking, rotors and pads are both changed out together
on cars these days. The rotors are pretty thin to begin with for reasons
of design for fuel economy, and once they wear, they get awfully close to or below
the service limits. So rotors and pads together doesn't concern me.

The fact that the service writer didn't look up the history of the vehicle is
more concerning. The actual mechanic will probably get a talking to for
telling the truth before looking up who actually did the previous work! 
You should be able to get that job done for $600 or so. Note that Honda rotors ARE
more expensive - and they might indeed be of higher quality. Your independent
guy can install whatever you want though.

                                                                  -Stretch

[Stevex]

Apart from fitting the pads the wrong way round, how the hell do you fit discs and pads incorrectly?

[bigbikerrick]

Apart from fitting the pads the wrong way round, how the hell do you fit discs and pads incorrectly?

The only thing I can think of is possibly , the "pins" were not properly greased, and that may have contributed to the pads wearing more on one side than the other. I found the same thing, on a neighbors chevy cobalt. The outside pad had more than 50% left, and the inside one was almost to the metal, the "noisemaker" pad, with the metal strip, was on the outside, instead of the inside, so it would not have alerted, until the metal backing plate rubbed the disc. Both pins were totally dry, and gummed up.
Rick.

[LongRanger]

My VW dealer told me I needed a new top end $$$$ on my Passat due to improper maintenance and lack of recommended oil changes. When I opened my binder and showed him the receipts for every scheduled maintenance order and oil change (that his shop performed), he quickly changed my service quote to a warranty repair. It pays to keep good records.

[azccj]

I would give them more rope to hang themselves. Go to the dealer and have them explain what the tech saw that indicated the last brake job was done incorrectly. Once that’s explained to you then you inform them it was their dealership which did the faulty job last time. At this point you really have them over a barrel. If they try to say their tech made a mistake when he claimed you needed all new brakes because the last job was done wrong, you have proof they were attempting to rip off your wife. If they still claim you need all new brakes because they screwed up last time, I would be demanding all new brakes at their expense. This is the kind of bad publicity story no dealership  wants exposed. If the dealership doesn’t advertise at one of the local TV stations this is the kind of story stations love to run. Crooked dealership taking advantage of some poor woman.

[larrys]

That dealer is trying to scam you. Brakes are still doable by regular Joes like us, even on newer cars. Just bought Audi OEM pads for the wife's Q3. The rotors look fine and the brakes don't pulse.
Larry

[MotoGuzzi750]

Seems to me if they actually wrote "Incorrect installment" and you have the receipt for the last brake job, that you have an open and shut case for free rotors, at the very least.
I'm conflicted about conflict myself, but armed with this documentation, I would politely point out the obvious to the service manager and see what they say. If not satisfied, I would ask what they would do if THEY were a small claims court judge who saw this case. I would practice my spiel ahead of time.

I am with you on this./completely agree/support

[LowRyter]

My guess, there's nothing wrong with your brakes.  Does it shudder or pulse?

So far as Genuine Honda Brakes?  Nahh, I've owned three Accords, the brakes are the crappiest parts.  I'd go aftermarket if I needed a replacement.  I'd take it to the kids at the oil change joint before I'd pay Honda.   Brakes aren't brain surgery and every garage in the corner will true and change brakes and rotors. 

[Tom]

Akebono brake pads.  Easy to change out.     If no shudder in the brakes when coming to a stop.  No need for rotors.  Loads of Youtube vids on this repair.  Woman customer....definit ely scam.  Go in and see what happens when you are the customer.   

[Vagrant]

Some dealerships are just crooks!
I know of one name brand where a mechanic has been showing the same worn out oiled up brake pads to customers for twenty years.
Unfortunatly women are targets!

[Tom]

This goes along with motorcycle dealers too.  Local multi-brand dealer.....   I figure that I'd buy a tire from them for my MP3 500.  They had a size smaller than the oem on the bike.  $80.  I could run that but I give the oem size to the parts counter.  He says $200 and they have to order it.  Would take a couple of weeks.  I ask about bringing the old tire back for disposal after I put it on.  He says $25 disposal fee.  This despite the sign near the tire rack saying price includes disposal fee.     I think must be lunch money for him.  I don't say anything. 

I did buy tires for the Honda PCX 150.  I'll have to see when I bring the old tires in.     I'll probably throw them over their wall into their pile on a Sunday. 

I ordered a tire from dealer in TX ,had it shipped to a friend in KS.  He USPS mailed to me.  Some background.....this what you have to do if you live in HI, AK or PR.  Almost all dealers will ship the tire but the shipping would be 2 to 3 times more than the cost of the tire. 

I did find tires from dealers in the UK, Malta or Greece but it seems stupid to buy from the other side of the world.  Let alone the additional cost of going through U.S. Customs.  Because of all of this.  I'm going dark-side on the rear tire.

[yackee]

The only thing I can think of is possibly , the "pins" were not properly greased, and that may have contributed to the pads wearing more on one side than the other. I found the same thing, on a neighbors chevy cobalt. The outside pad had more than 50% left, and the inside one was almost to the metal, the "noisemaker" pad, with the metal strip, was on the outside, instead of the inside, so it would not have alerted, until the metal backing plate rubbed the disc. Both pins were totally dry, and gummed up.
Rick.

Indeed, they claim it was the "pins" being inserted "backward". By two different techs at two different times (rear and front). so strange.

[John A]

If the dealer is less than helpful, a call to corporate can oftentimes produce results.

[Bulldog9]

My wife took our 2012 Honda Pilot to the dealer today for a regularly scheduled service. She comes back telling me that they said we need new brake pads and rotors. I say, "but hey, they changed out the rotors a couple of years ago, they can't be worn out yet." She shrugs and says, "that's what they said." I look at the estimate and see the following text: "Front and rear brakes and rotors are recommended for replacement for reasons of incorrect installment. Little brake padding material left, and uneven rotor wear and damage."

Now, the only place we have ever had work done on this car is the same dealer! So the only person who could have "incorrectly installed" the brakes are the people that are asking for $1,000 for a new set of brakes. Wild. What do you think the chances are of me convincing them to give me new brakes for free or at a discount? This seems outrageous. They are a major local Honda dealership. I assume it's better to send the wife to complain rather than me? I hate conflict.

When dealing with any mechanic, conflict is never a good thing. I always go in with the Colombo approach "help me to understand why" it's completely fair and reasonable for you to point out that the only techs who have serviced the brakes on the vehicle was at that shop.

If the pads were installed incorrectly, they may have worn unevenly. It could be that the inner pads wore more than the outer or vice versa because the caliper wasn't sliding on the pad plate or pins. Do you know if the metal backing have cut grooves into the rotors?

This is the reason why the only time any of my vehicles ever see a dealer is if it is a warranty item. Always better to do the work yourself, or have a good local independent shop who you know and trust. That is getting harder and harder to do these days.

[John A]

Give them a chance to make it right. If I was the service manager, I sure would, especially if the customer was polite and firm but not demanding.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I gotta say, sending my wife back to the dealer to navigate a situation that she doesn't fully understand that could potentially cost me $1,000 due to their incompetence because "I dont like conflict"??????

Man up, take the estimate, make them pull the service records, and make them make it right!

What do you think they are going to do? Beat you up??     

[Road Rocket]

Give them a chance to make it right. If I was the service manager, I sure would, especially if the customer was polite and firm but not demanding.

  The correct approach....

[krglorioso]

I tend to be a bit vindictive in such cases.   I would ask Honda Motor headquarters for the name and phone number of the Honda Zone Manager.  Lay your facts before him and let him contact the stealer.  Clearly, the stealer is pulling a scam and should be exposed to the higher ups in the Honda chain of command.  If the zone manager asks why you didn't go back to the dealers and present your information that the dealer did the prior repair, I would say that their conduct is illegal and unethical and that they would try to "cover it up".  Sock it to them and once the brakes are repaired (free) by them, never go back.

Family-owned, independent shops live or die on word of mouth advertising and they generally can be dealt with successfully. 

Ralph

[Tom]

You can also do  Yelp review to warn others.  Do this after your problem is resolved.   

[Road Rocket]

Indeed, they claim it was the "pins" being inserted "backward". By two different techs at two different times (rear and front). so strange.

Pins?  I don't belive there are pins...Most pads of the last 20 years fit into a female "mold" on the caliper or the caliper brackets...The are flat  anti rattle pads on Hondas....But the service clerk might call them pins because he is not a mechanic...
 

[Bulldog9]

Pins?  I don't belive there are pins...Most pads of the last 20 years fit into a female "mold" on the caliper or the caliper brackets...The are flat  anti rattle pads on Hondas....But the service clerk might call them pins because he is not a mechanic...

Most Japanese cars have 'pins' that slide through the caliper and pads to keep things aligned. This was the case on our Subaru's and Toyotas. EASY pad changes, but NOT a fan.

[s1120]

I tend to be a bit vindictive in such cases.   I would ask Honda Motor headquarters for the name and phone number of the Honda Zone Manager.  Lay your facts before him and let him contact the stealer.  Clearly, the stealer is pulling a scam and should be exposed to the higher ups in the Honda chain of command.  If the zone manager asks why you didn't go back to the dealers and present your information that the dealer did the prior repair, I would say that their conduct is illegal and unethical and that they would try to "cover it up".  Sock it to them and once the brakes are repaired (free) by them, never go back.

Family-owned, independent shops live or die on word of mouth advertising and they generally can be dealt with successfully. 

Ralph

Having worked in a dealer for many years, and seeing the techs, and advisors that have come through the doors, I have seen where a lot of times its a matter of the tech, and advisors just not checking history like they should. Tech sees a oddly worn pad, and wants to get paid for a full brake job, not just a pad slap....advisor clueless [or in a lot of cases just so darned over worked!] that they change a "we saw something wrong from last service so we fixed it up for you..."  to..  "ya well give us more money"  A simple search of history, and see that "tech joe" did them 1000 miles ago could have made a huge diference in this whole dealing. I guess the good point is that if it was a chain muffler/brake shop they would have tried to get you for calipers, and hoses also.

[egschade]

To be more precise, it's the caliper that slides in relation to the disk with the pads having minimal lateral movement within the caliper. Honda brake pads are held captive in the caliper by their ears / tabs. In turn, the caliper is held to the hub with bolts that have smooth centers which allow the caliper to 'slide' in relation to the carrier.

Either the tech installed the pads in the caliper incorrectly OR they buggered up the caliper bolts somehow preventing it from moving in the carrier. I've had aftermarket pads that had poor finishing on the tabs and would not fit into the caliper slots which would have caused drag. A little filing to remove the excess material is all that was needed. I've also seen badly corroded and bent caliper bolts that seized in the carrier and caused excessive pad wear.

Regardless, the dealer owes you a brake job because these are things any competent tech should have checked and resolved during installation.