Author Topic: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)  (Read 528 times)

Online amamet

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ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« on: August 17, 2022, 01:20:25 PM »
since the bp6es plugs are discontinued I read to just get bpr6es plugs, I was wondering if my ngk red racing caps and wires are still good to use.  I read that resistor plugs should NOT be used with resistor caps?  this is all too confusing :)
« Last Edit: Today at 07:05:37 AM by amamet »

Online PeteS

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2022, 01:41:17 PM »
What is the ignition system? You donít need resistor anything with points. Resistor plugs were introduced to reduce RF interference. Noise on your radio. Some electronic ignitions may specify them as well.

Pete
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 01:41:38 PM by PeteS »

Offline bmc5733946

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2022, 01:51:37 PM »
Won't make a whit of difference. Resistor plugs and caps work just fine in combination with points or electronic ignition systems. YMMV!

Brian
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Offline Mike Tashjian

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2022, 01:52:30 PM »
Resistor plugs should not be used with resistor caps.  Total resistance will be too high.  The right amount of resistance gives a better spark at the right time.   

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2022, 01:52:30 PM »

Online amamet

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2022, 01:59:39 PM »
just got off the phone with ngk tech, was told don't use restistor caps with resistor plugs, period.  he said to with to non-resistor caps or find nos plugs if I want to use ngk.  he mentioned everyone will be doing the same since non resistor plugs are "old tech"

Offline TOMB

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2022, 03:26:31 PM »
I switched over to Nippon Denso plugs because of NGK stopped making the BP6ES non resister plug.

I can say that the ND plugs offer in my case a better running bike so give then a try

NGK BP6ES equals the Nippon Denso W20EP-U Both are non-resister

side note ---I'm using the 5 ohm Bosch resister caps, no issues , if you need resister caps NGK still makes them

TOMB
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 03:30:37 PM by TOMB »
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Offline moto-uno

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2022, 04:12:58 PM »
 ^  I think you meant to say "5K ohm" .  Peter

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2022, 04:14:28 PM »
I switched over to Nippon Denso plugs because of NGK stopped making the BP6ES non resister plug.

I can say that the ND plugs offer in my case a better running bike so give then a try

NGK BP6ES equals the Nippon Denso W20EP-U Both are non-resister

side note ---I'm using the 5 ohm Bosch resister caps, no issues , if you need resister caps NGK still makes them

TOMB

Same thing here. The first time I started my V50 III during it's "resurrection" it didn't go so well. It would only run on one cylinder, checked and rechecked everything. New (genuine) NGK BP7ES plugs. Tried a set of new (genuine) NGK BP6ES I had - same thing. Tried a pair of Denso W22EP-U - it started on both cylinders and ran very well. I've been using them ever since.
Charlie

Online sib

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2022, 05:05:01 PM »
At least as far back as 2013 when I got my first V7, the specified plugs had resistors and the caps also had resistors.  If NGK thinks they shouldn't be used together, they didn't tell Moto Guzzi.  I've never had any kind of ignition problems with any of my 3 V7s, so I'm not losing any sleep over the issue.

Also, although resistors were first used to lower radio interference, I wouldn't be surprised if they also prevent interference with all the electronic devices we use these days, including computerized fuel injection systems.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 05:08:55 PM by sib »
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Offline bmc5733946

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2022, 05:47:08 PM »
Resistor plugs actually provide spark at greater energy because they hold off spark discharge until there is enough to overcome the resistance and to jump the plug gap. If you had a SunScope for tuning you could see it in the spark voltage on the screen, I have. Resistor plugs have been used with resistor caps and resistor wires since the 1960s, well before the advent of electronic ignition and fuel injection in automotive applications. Many Guzzi and other bikes came from the factory with resistor caps and plugs. This is really a non issue. But think what you will.

Brian
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Online Canuck750

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2022, 06:44:37 PM »
Where do you find Nippon Denso W20EP-U plugs?
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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2022, 06:47:53 PM »
Where do you find Nippon Denso W20EP-U plugs?

I have them ordered through NAPA and other parts stores, also buy them on Amazon.
Charlie

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2022, 08:46:26 PM »

Should the Denso pre-set gap be modified?
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2022, 09:08:15 PM »
Should the Denso pre-set gap be modified?

Yes. On their website they specify .025" gap for the W20EP-U and the W22EP-U when used in older Guzzi applications.
Charlie

Online Tom H

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2022, 10:10:56 PM »
2004 EVT. From factory, resistor caps and plugs.

NGK does not appear to make a 0 resistance cap in the LB-XX-YY style. Lowest is LB01EP that I can find, again, at least in that style.

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Offline mtiberio

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #15 on: Today at 04:55:27 AM »
All I know is that Eraldo Ferracci would insist on using those OEM metal clad spark plug caps (over brownish phenolic looking innards) on the 851 Ducatis. And FWIW, Dr John once told me by running .025 or .028" gaps I was losing torque. He said use .035. YMMV...

What I'll never understand is how you can have ignition wires with a core of material that would not appear to be of a conducting material (silicon core, plastic looking shite).
« Last Edit: Today at 04:57:10 AM by mtiberio »
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Online Bulldog9

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #16 on: Today at 05:30:19 AM »
All I know is that Eraldo Ferracci would insist on using those OEM metal clad spark plug caps (over brownish phenolic looking innards) on the 851 Ducatis. And FWIW, Dr John once told me by running .025 or .028" gaps I was losing torque. He said use .035. YMMV...

What I'll never understand is how you can have ignition wires with a core of material that would not appear to be of a conducting material (silicon core, plastic looking shite).

My grandfather who was a NYC cop spent the last few years working in a NYPD garage as a mechanic and supervisor rather than a desk job after getting hurt while serving as a motorcycle officer in upper Manhattan.  He was one of the lucky few to ride the old Indian police bikes in the 50's and 60's.

Anyhow, your recalling Dr. John reminded me of a trick he taught me back when I was a kid, that increasing plug gap on an air cooled engine or high powered motor would result in more power and torque, but you had to have a healthy fuel and ignition system, or you would hobble the motor. He was also a fanatic about indexing the plugs to get as ideal and equal combustion as possible. Man I miss him.

I prefer the R plugs to non R plugs with or without R caps. They result in a cleaner spark (as was stated earlier) due to the resistor.

Use what makes you most comfortable.  I've had similar performance from ND and NGK plugs, but prefer old school copper NGK's or BOSCH to just about anything.
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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #17 on: Today at 07:33:41 AM »
My grandfather who was a NYC cop spent the last few years working in a NYPD garage as a mechanic and supervisor rather than a desk job after getting hurt while serving as a motorcycle officer in upper Manhattan.  He was one of the lucky few to ride the old Indian police bikes in the 50's and 60's.

Anyhow, your recalling Dr. John reminded me of a trick he taught me back when I was a kid, that increasing plug gap on an air cooled engine or high powered motor would result in more power and torque, but you had to have a healthy fuel and ignition system, or you would hobble the motor. He was also a fanatic about indexing the plugs to get as ideal and equal combustion as possible. Man I miss him.

I prefer the R plugs to non R plugs with or without R caps. They result in a cleaner spark (as was stated earlier) due to the resistor.

Use what makes you most comfortable.  I've had similar performance from ND and NGK plugs, but prefer old school copper NGK's or BOSCH to just about anything.
Would you possibly have any pictures of your Grandfather on a police bike.
I collect old Motor Cop photos?
Sorry for the thread drift guys.

Online amamet

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #18 on: Today at 10:45:05 AM »
I see on the Denso cross reference chart, there is a w20ep, w20ep-u and a w20ex-u for the ngk bp6es. anyone no the difference? removable terminal vs fixed?
thx
allen

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #19 on: Today at 11:14:53 AM »
I just purchased a pair a few months ago.

replacement for BP6ES

NGK 7131 BPR6ES Nickel Spark Plug
SKU #BPR6ES

ITEM #NGK7131
John L 
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Online amamet

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #21 on: Today at 02:51:21 PM »
Yah saw that but balked at $10 a p;lug

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: ngk plugs discontinued (updated)
« Reply #22 on: Today at 03:27:27 PM »
Shop around a bit:
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NGK4007

Note that on the 4007, the terminal on top is non-removable.
Charlie

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