Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: nwguy on May 24, 2021, 07:44:22 AM

Title: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: nwguy on May 24, 2021, 07:44:22 AM
Sloan's Cycles in TN used Castrol 10w50 when they changed the oil in my Norge even though the manual says to use 10w60. They said MG issued some kind of advisory that said to use Castrol 10w50 now. Bike's running fine, but Jim Hamlin in CT said no, it should be 10w60. He said 10w50 wouldn't hurt it, but it's not right. Was an advisory really issued? If so, is it online somewhere so I could see it?
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: JJ on May 24, 2021, 07:48:58 AM
Oh NO!!! Another dreaded "oil thread!!" (Let the hand-wringing....BEGIN!!)

 :laugh: :grin: :wink: :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:


(https://i.ibb.co/F76Mddx/IMG-2697.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F76Mddx)

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Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Bisbonian on May 24, 2021, 08:04:54 AM
I've not heard of an update to the type to be used. It would be odd, IMO, for them to change simply because they are now recommending Castrol products.
The V85 recommends Castrol 10w60.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Tkelly on May 24, 2021, 08:10:09 AM
You can get 10w60 from NAPA.It is made in Germany so a local shop might not have it in stock,mine came in the next morning.Cant recall the name.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Old Jock on May 24, 2021, 08:49:09 AM
I don't think Guzzi manuals give you a range just a recommended weight, I also have a Ducati 1098 and in their owner manuals they show you a chart with the range of oils that can be used in various ambients.

As I remember the recommended for the Ducati is a 10W/40 but they tell you all the different grades that are acceptable for an ambient range, going from a straight 10 to straight 40 and a range of multigrades that extend the temperatures the motorcycle can be used in, with 10/40 extending the ambient range most.

I run that bike on a 15/50 as the ambients are well within the acceptable range and the 10/40 makes gearbox action quite noisy when shifting, the 15/50 gives a bettter change and is quieter, not an issue on Guzzis of course.

Unless your running in extremely high ambients and pushing the bike very hard I reckon the 10/50 will be more than good enough. Besides most Guzzi engines tend to run on the cool side, so I don't think it's anything to be concerned about.

I agree with John Henry, if I was in that situation I'd use it until the next change then go to the 10/60.

I pay more attention to oil quality running the bikes on full synthetics

John
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 24, 2021, 08:57:21 AM
When a shop makes up a story like that, I want to see it in writing. If they can't pull up the actual document from the factory, I assume they are BSing me, yet again, just to unload what they have in stock. I have a low opinion of most shops because of that, which is why I try to do all of my own work.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: kballowe on May 24, 2021, 09:17:27 AM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51200778394_1a15c21de3_k.jpg)
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: nwguy on May 24, 2021, 10:00:36 AM
Thanks for this info. I'll keep it until the next oil change. Kind of disappointed in Sloan's now.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: cappisj1 on May 24, 2021, 10:23:24 AM
My local OíReilly auto parts story (Midwest chain) keeps this in the back. I had to ask them for it the first time. The guy said they keep it on hand for a couple Porch guys.


(https://i.ibb.co/mqZyH43/A600511-F-A0-BE-4-EF0-B506-167-AEA1765-B1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mqZyH43)
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Moparnut72 on May 24, 2021, 11:03:25 AM
My O'Reillys keeps it in stock in the regular oil rack. Oil filters are a different story, I have to get them from the dealer or mail order. No interchange that I could find.
kk
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: blu guzz on May 24, 2021, 11:06:44 AM
my v85 doesn't even take 2 quarts, so I am sticking to the recommendation.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: sign216 on May 24, 2021, 11:16:02 AM
I used to get Castrol 10w-60 at BMW auto dealers, who kept it for an older series of cars.  It was surprisingly cheap.

Now it's hit or miss there.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on May 24, 2021, 11:55:35 AM
Oh NO!!! Another dreaded "oil thread!!" (Let the hand-wringing....BEGIN!!)

 :laugh: :grin: :wink: :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:


(https://i.ibb.co/F76Mddx/IMG-2697.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F76Mddx)

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(https://www.theburningplatform.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/the-jerk.jpeg)
Title: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: John Warner on May 24, 2021, 12:19:36 PM
The 8V 1200s, are Oil Cooled Engines (as all 'Air Cooled' Engines are really).
The Cooling Circuit Oil is pumped straight into the Heads, to flood the areas around the Exhaust Valves, and it gets extremely hot in there.
That's why the -60 Fully Synthetic is specified.
I wouldn't risk -50 in my Engines, under any circumstances.

At the 'other end', I'd never hesitate to use a 20W-60 in Summer.

You can get Mobil 1 in 10W-60, some BMW cars use it, it's reasonably priced, and should be available pretty much everywhere.

Remember we can use car Oils in our Guzzis (Dry Clutches), so you don't have to fork out over-the-odds prices for Bike Oils.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: mechanicsavant on May 24, 2021, 12:40:49 PM
Iím pretty sure the oil you referred to @ NAPA is liqui-moly 10w60 Iíve been getting it there for a few years . I donít recall the exact $$ but oil is cheaper than an engine
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Perazzimx14 on May 24, 2021, 12:47:41 PM
I mix 15W-50 and 10W-60 in equal parts to create 12.5w-55. I'll also admit in the winter I add in a jigger or two of 0W-20 and a cap full of Marvel Mystery Oil to help cold starts protection.



Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: jcctx on May 24, 2021, 12:57:17 PM
Oil is good, keep some in your motor!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Noguzznoglory on May 24, 2021, 02:00:22 PM


i'd be more worried about the zinc content than the viscosity rating
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: sib on May 24, 2021, 02:23:42 PM

i'd be more worried about the zinc content than the viscosity rating

I too.  Even in the 2021 V7 (850) engine, the owner's manual specifies API grade G, which has much more ZDDP content than later "modern" grades.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Griso8V on May 24, 2021, 02:36:14 PM
OMG!  The oil thread will NOT die.   :rolleyes: :shocked:
Not sure why folks don't just read the manual?   :violent1:
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Huzo on May 24, 2021, 04:10:38 PM
Iíve never fully understood the way the rating works.
For example..
10 W 60
What do the two numbers indicate ?
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Alfetta on May 24, 2021, 04:16:45 PM
Best to run a mix of Rotella T and Royal Purple with two teaspoons on molly lube and on full can of "3 in 1" oil ( for cold starts )..
don't use slick 50 until you are fully vested in your 50th year..
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: kballowe on May 24, 2021, 04:43:08 PM
OK, someone please help me out here.

I simply cannot find the viscosity rating on this bottle.

???

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51202017760_1bedf517ef.jpg)
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: kingoffleece on May 24, 2021, 05:42:51 PM
I've seen the tech paper from Guzzi at Hamlin's shop. 10-50 has been superseded by 10-60.  Wanna read the manual?  There it is.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Huzo on May 24, 2021, 06:10:45 PM
I've seen the tech paper from Guzzi at hamlet's shop.
I had no idea Shakespeare rode a Guzzi... :grin:
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Kane on May 24, 2021, 06:20:38 PM
To V or not to V, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of a boring engine,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them....and ride a Guzzi!
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: nc43bsa on May 24, 2021, 06:37:04 PM
Iíve never fully understood the way the rating works.
For example..
10 W 60
What do the two numbers indicate ?

10W60 oil is 10W oil with viscosity modifiers added to make it perform as a 60W oil when hot.

Or so I've read.  I'm not a trained tribologist.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Huzo on May 24, 2021, 06:38:16 PM
10W60 oil is 10W oil with viscosity modifiers added to make it perform as a 60W oil when hot.
Ok, thanks.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: kingoffleece on May 25, 2021, 02:40:34 AM
Ha ha ha.  Darned spell check!  Like when category becomes cat orgy!
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Huzo on May 25, 2021, 03:16:07 AM
Ha ha ha.  Darned spell check!  Like when category becomes cat orgy!
Iíll wager his tank badges arenít as good as mine....
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Old Jock on May 25, 2021, 04:25:26 AM
I've no desire to keep the thread alive particularly

But just an answer to the 2 numbers the W stands for Winter and is viscosity at 0C, the other number is the viscosity at 100C, so close to what the oil will be running at inside an engine at operating temp.

So looking at any given multigrade, 10/40, 10/60, 20/50 etc: it doesn't really matter regarding the relative behaviour of any given multigrade. The oil at 0C is, of course, is thicker than when the oil is at 100C, multigrades slow the thinning of the oil as it get hotter, so a straight 10 for instance would be a lot thinner than a 10W/40 at 100C.

The bigger the difference in the numbers the less change in viscosity takes place, so a 10/40 will be thinner at 100C than a 10/60, which is stating the obvious but just spelling it out. Oil companies use Viscosity Index to show this, the higher the VI number the less change in viscosity occurs as temp is increased, but I know next to nothing about VI.

The other point worth noting that some may be unaware of, I certainly wasn't until recently, is visocosity change with temperature is not linear, but logarithmic, the relationship's a curve. The hotter the oil gets, the smaller the difference will be between different grades.

It's also worth remembering that a graph can be made to accentuate a particular property depending on the range chosen for the relative axes.

(https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/wiki_imgs/mZ9TYksCL3)

It's a complex topic, hence all the debate I suppose and I know little about it, but I thought I'd share my general ignorance.

John
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: bad Chad on May 25, 2021, 10:44:30 AM
I can only add that I was told by Jim Baron, one of the elite Guzzi techs in the world, that 10w60 was as near critical for long health engine life on 8v big blocks.   And while not an absolute must for modern 2v Guzzi mills, it is definitely the best choice for those as well.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: SmithSwede on May 25, 2021, 11:38:23 AM
I donít have hard test data to disagree, but I am curious about the small blocks and the supposed necessity of a 60 weight oil for everyday street riding.   

I get it for the big blocks. The modern 8 valve big blocks are cooling the exhaust valve area with the oil, and were presumably designed with a 60 weight oil in mind, along with an oil cooler.   

But the small block seems to be a very conventional engine design, much like a BMW airhead
or air-cooled Ducati.  Nothing tricky is being done with internal oil cooling.   The engine was designed long before the  ready availability of 60 weight oil.  Earlier manuals all specified a 50W oil.   

I have a strong hunch that once Guzzi was required to spec a 60 weight oil for the big blocks, they said screw it, make that the standard for everything.   Which wonít really hurt anything.  My hunch is a small block would be just fine running a high quality 50 weight. 

I could be wrong.  Would certainly like to see hard tribological data on this, or hear a good explanation for why a 45 horsepower 750cc air-cooled small block really needs a 60 weight oil. 

Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Brand X on May 25, 2021, 11:48:41 AM
I can only add that I was told by Jim Baron, one of the elite Guzzi techs in the world, that 10w60 was as near critical for long health engine life on 8v big blocks.   And while not an absolute must for modern 2v Guzzi mills, it is definitely the best choice for those as well.

A tag under the seat of my 2007 Breva 1100 say 10w-60. Different from the factory old spec 5-40.. I had some high quality 15-50 I used to flush out the what was in the Bike. Just used it for some wintertime rides, and run only 10-60 top spec oil..

I am a huge fan of Ester based 10-60. It will handle the heat better then any other oil..Any good quality oil will work well in these Motors, but having one that I know worked well in my 1100 Ducati, and Water cooled V-twin 990 Rotax's confirms my choice..
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: moto-uno on May 25, 2021, 12:25:40 PM
The "W" simply stands for winter "freezing temp of water",0 degrees celcius , the higher number refers to it's viscosity
at the boiling temp of water , 100 degrees celcius . Those were the old SAE standards for measuring viscosity . Oil at 0 degrees
is passed through an orifice for a length of time and measured , the same is done at 100 degrees C and measured , what ever
range that falls under gives you their viscosity . All the additives etc are another very long story that seems to evolve annually.
Peter
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: ozarquebus on May 25, 2021, 01:23:15 PM
I thought I was the only one who loved mixing different weights of oil for fun.
 I especially like the 12.5w 55 synthetic blend with Marvel Mystery oil.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Vagrant on May 25, 2021, 02:53:45 PM
Thank the good lord I had just poured 5 fingers of fine 10/60 Scotch before starting to read this thread.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: kballowe on May 26, 2021, 07:50:55 AM
BelRay 10W-50 is what goes into your Guzzi at our local dealer.

Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Perazzimx14 on May 26, 2021, 08:46:58 AM
The 8V 1200s, are Oil Cooled Engines (as all 'Air Cooled' Engines are really).
The Cooling Circuit Oil is pumped straight into the Heads, to flood the areas around the Exhaust Valves, and it gets extremely hot in there.
That's why the -60 Fully Synthetic is specified.
I wouldn't risk -50 in my Engines, under any circumstances.

At the 'other end', I'd never hesitate to use a 20W-60 in Summer.

You can get Mobil 1 in 10W-60, some BMW cars use it, it's reasonably priced, and should be available pretty much everywhere.

Remember we can use car Oils in our Guzzis (Dry Clutches), so you don't have to fork out over-the-odds prices for Bike Oils.


Me thinks you have Castrol and Mobil mixed up. At least in the USA there is no 10W-60 Mobil.

If it works for you Mobil 1 15W-50 synthetic at MaoMart is $25 for 5 quarts and usually from April - October there is a $10 rebate (two per household) making a quality oil very cost effective.



Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Brand X on May 26, 2021, 01:22:58 PM
Thank the good lord I had just poured 5 fingers of fine 10/60 Scotch before starting to read this thread.

Crap, it now turned into a ethanol thread.. :evil:
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: mr_pacman on May 26, 2021, 02:05:30 PM
Motul 10w60 seems to be readily available around here. The only oil you can really find in that weight from a retail store. I never considered the BMW dealers but my old M3 was required to take 10w60 so that's a great idea.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: dirtiegirtie on May 26, 2021, 02:14:48 PM
I'm gonna need some help. I just did my first oil change. I was instructed to use 1.5L of EVOO in my 2015 V7. Does it need to be Extra Virgin Olive Oil or will any Olive Oil do? I just ask as that 'first press' crap is expensive!
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: reidy on May 26, 2021, 06:54:46 PM
I have never jumped in on an oil thread before, but they say you should try everything once.

Ever motorcycle I have owned has a range of oils that are suitable and this is linked to what temperature range the bike is likely to operate in.

A bike that is used in a cold Canadian winter will need a different weight oil to that of a bike in outback Australia in summer.

Oil gets thinner, or more runny or to me more correct, less viscous as it gets hot. When you start your bike you want the oil to be thin enough to circulate quickly and buildup pressure to protect your engine. This is the first number 0, 5 , 10, 20w and such. If you live in a very cold area you will need a very low number. This number is measured at 40 degrees c.

The second number is the viscosity when the oil is at 100c. So straight weight oil is a constant viscosity. Multigrade sort of works like two different lots of straight grade. That is it keeps a more constant viscosity as temperature changes. The higher the second number is, the thicker the oil is at 100C. Earlier a graph was shown how this works. I should point out that this is the temperature of the oil not the outside air. Now if we are riding in Canada in mid winter our bike won't heat up much and we will want a lower number so the oil is not like honey. If we are in the Australian summer we want a high number so the oil is not like water as the engine will be very hot. 

Now the clever engineers have calculated bearing clearances, oil pump size, expected engine oil temperature and such and have determined how thick the oil should be in the operating range. There is a range that is ideal so we don't have to change the oil from the cold morning to midday. Also as an engine wears a slightly heavier oil is required because the bearing clearances open up creating less back pressure and needing a thicker oil. 

Now for my opinion. Oil has always been used to cool your engine. It is now used more in some applications to cool around the exhaust port. This puts more heat in the oil and thins it out. I would suspect that Moto Guzzi has noticed in some hot climates the extra heat the oil is taking from the motor is causing the oil to thin more than the ideal. Therefore they have recommended a 60 as an extra safety margin.

For most users who use their bikes in the middle of normal temperature ranges and ride their bikes as the maker intended there is a lot of latitude to oil weight as shown in the owners handbook. 

Now for my recommendation pick an oil you like tat meets the specifications from the manufacturer and use it. I use Penrite for the following highly scientific reasons. It is an Australian company and I like to support Australian companies. It is widely available so I can easily get it when I need it. It meets the specifications in my owners handbook.

Steve

Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: dmcdonaldjr on September 02, 2021, 10:49:04 AM
Sloan's did the same on my first service and oil change yesterday (10w50)... Thanks for the comments, I'm going to run it to the next change on my 2020 v85
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Amstaff on September 02, 2021, 12:27:25 PM
I don't know why this topic comes up. Amsoil, BelRay, Motorex, Motul, Castrol and probably others still make 10w60 oil. Couple of years ago got a case of ENI (formerly Agip) but they said on the phone they got out of that business.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Xlratr on September 02, 2021, 01:28:42 PM
The 8V 1200s, are Oil Cooled Engines (as all 'Air Cooled' Engines are really).
The Cooling Circuit Oil is pumped straight into the Heads, to flood the areas around the Exhaust Valves, and it gets extremely hot in there.
That's why the -60 Fully Synthetic is specified.
I wouldn't risk -50 in my Engines, under any circumstances.

What John Warner said. The ambient temperature isn't really the issue here, it's what's going on around the exhaust valves in the 8v engine. Of course everybody is free to do what they want with their own motorcycle but if a dealer put 10w-50 in my bike I'd change it 5 minutes after getting home and never go back there again.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: hzbloke on September 02, 2021, 05:07:29 PM
I have never jumped in on an oil thread before, but they say you should try everything once.

The advice actually is "You should try everything once except incest and folk-dancing". If the bloke who said it were alive today he would probably add 'oil threads'.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: aklawok on September 03, 2021, 01:45:12 AM
I've seen the tech paper from Guzzi at Hamlin's shop. 10-50 has been superseded by 10-60.  Wanna read the manual?  There it is.
did you mean 10-60 has been superseded...not the other way round? fishy... would like like a linky if you got one! 
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Sye on September 03, 2021, 03:19:28 AM
Manufacturers spend big doing the R&D and tell us what weight and spec oil to use. It's important that it meets both specs. Mine says:

Engine oil 10W-60 JASO MA, MA2; API SG - Synthetic based lubricant for high performance four-stroke engines, so that is what I will use, simple.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: mechanicsavant on September 03, 2021, 06:12:29 AM
Mr. Hamlin has not misdirected me yet ! And yup , Iím using liqui-moly oil from NAPA
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Stratodisaster on September 03, 2021, 06:28:15 AM
Why do so many people have a problem just using what the owners manual recommends.Wouldnít that seem like the most reliable source of information?
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Old Jock on September 03, 2021, 01:16:02 PM
Why do so many people have a problem just using what the owners manual recommends.Wouldnít that seem like the most reliable source of information?

Well yes, that's one way of looking at it.

Then there are some like me who will experiment a bit, due to issues or some more investigation

Take my HiCam engine as an example, it runs helish hot, 110C in free air, in the town that will quickly rise, I've seen 130C oil temp.

The oil recommended for that bike is 20-50, back in the day when 10-60 was not an option.

I'm currently running a 15-50 with a Griso spring in the PRV, as the original partly lifts and robs the bike of much needed pressure.

The 15-50 is thinner than a 20-50 for starting and a 10-60, because when I start the bike it will be nearer 20C not 0C.

I'll probably end up going to a 10-60 as many HiCam owners do, due to the hot running reducing viscosity and dropping the pressure. I'd prefer to reduce the engine temp and still run my 15-50, if I can and looking into that.

All I'm saying is it often isn't as clear cut as it seems and when looking at oils and viscosity the best approach is to actually look at the manufacturer's data for the brand in question.

The viscosity can vary quite a bit, brand to brand for the same grades. So unless you're running not only the viscosity rating but the actual recommended brand, you're probably not running exactly what the manufaturer states.

In my Ducati 1098 I ran a 15-50 as most people on the forum I was on did too, the 10-40 recommended made the gearbox sound horrible.

Each to their own, if sticking to recommended grade is what you want great.

However those of us who choose not to are not necessarily idiots and often have very good reason.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Advguz on September 03, 2021, 02:20:58 PM
10w 60 Motul
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Amstaff on September 03, 2021, 05:11:15 PM
Greater viscosity is thicker and has a higher number. Yeah, I though one previous poster wrote the opposite-high viscosity is thinnerÖ. Nope.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Stratodisaster on September 03, 2021, 05:46:04 PM
Well yes, that's one way of looking at it.

Then there are some like me who will experiment a bit, due to issues or some more investigation

Take my HiCam engine as an example, it runs helish hot, 110C in free air, in the town that will quickly rise, I've seen 130C  you probably donít take it to a dealer for something as simple as an oil change. Iím not implying thereís anything wrong with what your doing what Iím saying is why,if you lack knowledge why would take the word of a bunch of people on a forum or some goof-ball at a dealer over whatís written in the manual.

The oil recommended for that bike is 20-50, back in the day when 10-60 was not an option.

I'm currently running a 15-50 with a Griso spring in the PRV, as the original partly lifts and robs the bike of much needed pressure.

The 15-50 is thinner than a 20-50 for starting and a 10-60, because when I start the bike it will be nearer 20C not 0C.

I'll probably end up going to a 10-60 as many HiCam owners do, due to the hot running reducing viscosity and dropping the pressure. I'd prefer to reduce the engine temp and still run my 15-50, if I can and looking into that.

All I'm saying is it often isn't as clear cut as it seems and when looking at oils and viscosity the best approach is to actually look at the manufacturer's data for the brand in question.

The viscosity can vary quite a bit, brand to brand for the same grades. So unless you're running not only the viscosity rating but the actual recommended brand, you're probably not running exactly what the manufaturer states.

In my Ducati 1098 I ran a 15-50 as most people on the forum I was on did too, the 10-40 recommended made the gearbox sound horrible.

Each to their own, if sticking to recommended grade is what you want great.

However those of us who choose not to are not necessarily idiots and often have very good reason.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Old Jock on September 04, 2021, 04:12:23 AM
Iím not implying thereís anything wrong with what your doing what Iím saying is why,if you lack knowledge why would take the word of a bunch of people on a forum or some goof-ball at a dealer over whatís written in the manual.

Oh my bad if I misinterpreted your meaning, I agree if you haven't done any research or cannot be bothered, then yes stick to the grades recommended in the book.

I'd never take anything on here or elsewhere on the Interweb as gospel unless I could follow through the logic and reasoning myself.

Greater viscosity is thicker and has a higher number. Yeah, I though one previous poster wrote the opposite-high viscosity is thinnerÖ. Nope.

Not sure if that was directed at me when I said, "The 15-50 is thinner than a 20-50 for starting and a 10-60, because when I start the bike it will be nearer 20C not 0C."

Yes as oil grade numbers get higher the oil gets thicker, but only at the specified temperatures, which are 0C and 100C.

At intermediate temperatures, it's not uncommon for grades which on first glance you'd think are thinner (or thicker) are very often not.

Multigrades with numbers closer together, will have a different curve to those with numbers farther apart and you need to look at the quoted viscosity in the spec sheet, normally quoted at 40C and 100C as I recall.

It gets worse as the most common formula used to interpolate the viscosity at intermediate temps, (well the only one I've found, Walther's formula) really only holds for Newtonian fluids and Multigrades depart from these rules.

Just saying as when I started to look into all this because of my "Red headed Step Child" HiCam engine, I found out viscosity vs temperature behaviour was far from straightforward, at least for one of my limited intellect

I cannot believe I'm still participating in an oil thread, as they all end in tears or the mods erasing them (usually with good reason)
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: SIR REAL ED on September 04, 2021, 05:27:18 AM

I cannot believe I'm still participating in an oil thread, as they all end in tears or the mods erasing them (usually with good reason)

Oh so true.  But it is like watching a car wreck in real time.  No one approves, but few can turn away before the impact.....

IMO that is what makes WG such a great site.  Everything from excellent information to technological nerdity and absurdity is featured. 

It is a one stop shop without equal.

Kudos to all who participate.

Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Amstaff on September 04, 2021, 06:22:15 AM
OJ,

I mustíve screwed up reading/remembering. Thats why I qualified it with ĎI thoughíÖ
Oops, I meant ďI thought.Ē

Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: greer on September 11, 2021, 08:14:24 AM
Had my first service at Sloans earlier this week, lubricants used were Castrol Power 1 4T 10W50 and Castrol Syntrax Long Life 75W140.  I'm more concerned about overfilling, I had an air gap in the upper part of the window prior to the service, none now.  I'm thinking I had the air gap from the beginning, but I may be wrong. 

Sarah
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: jcctx on September 11, 2021, 09:50:06 AM
I am no expert, but I REALLY doubt anyone will ever know the difference no matter if they run 10W50 or 0W60 after 100K Miles!!!!
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Tom on September 11, 2021, 03:10:18 PM
 :boozing:  Oil threads are always fun.   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  Paraphrasing Firesign Theater 1971 "I think we're all "idiots" on this bus."   :tongue:   :evil:
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Vagrant on September 11, 2021, 03:54:21 PM
Unlike past engines the new one doesn't care if it's overfilled, and it's very easy to do. just ignore it.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: greer on September 12, 2021, 04:44:13 AM
Thanks Vagrant, I'll just leave the oil be.

Sarah
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: John Warner on October 30, 2021, 01:43:41 PM
Me thinks you have Castrol and Mobil mixed up. At least in the USA there is no 10W-60 Mobil.
https://www.google.com/search?q=mobil+1+10w+60&client=tablet-unknown&prmd=simxvn&sxsrf=AOaemvK22qhng3e8kyhIc4yTKT71V_dnyg:1635619246208&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjq_KDB5PLzAhXNMMAKHXmoCVgQ_AUoAnoECAIQAg&biw=1280&bih=800&dpr=1.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=mobil+1+10w+60&client=tablet-unknown&prmd=simxvn&sxsrf=AOaemvK22qhng3e8kyhIc4yTKT71V_dnyg:1635619246208&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjq_KDB5PLzAhXNMMAKHXmoCVgQ_AUoAnoECAIQAg&biw=1280&bih=800&dpr=1.5)
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: krglorioso on October 30, 2021, 09:52:09 PM
You can get 10w60 from NAPA.It is made in Germany so a local shop might not have it in stock,mine came in the next morning.Cant recall the name.

The oil referred to likely is Liqui-Moly, and is made in Germany.  Amazon sells it in 5 quart jugs for $48 shipped.  It's what I use.

Ralph
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: yamaguzzi on October 31, 2021, 07:19:31 AM
I run Valvoline VR1 racing oil 20w 50w in my 850 -T Harpers told me to and also told me to run the bike all the time  to keep the chrome bores from flaking because they flake when the bike sits over time . They claimed the chrome bores will last forever. That was in 2007 and well over 100,000 miles ago. My T has never gone more than 2 weeks without running . They were right on both counts. Just my 2 cents
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: Iron Cross Junction on October 31, 2021, 07:31:30 AM
Sloan's Cycles in TN used Castrol 10w50 when they changed the oil in my Norge even though the manual says to use 10w60. They said MG issued some kind of advisory that said to use Castrol 10w50 now. Bike's running fine, but Jim Hamlin in CT said no, it should be 10w60. He said 10w50 wouldn't hurt it, but it's not right. Was an advisory really issued? If so, is it online somewhere so I could see it?


Back in the day, as in the 1960's -- so far back I can't find a reference to it on the web ... which may, of course, mean I created it out of whole cloth!  :wink: -- Marathon Oil
 had an advertising jingle about its gasoline's quality:

"Get it in writing; get it in writing; Marathon puts it in writing for you!" 

Well, the (retired) lawyer in me wonders if Sloan's would do that for its customers, too, so one so affected could show Piaggio when it's warranty-claim time?

I would rather read my manual than the summary-judgment dismissal of my lawsuit.   :cry:

YMMV, and based on most of the three pages thus far of comments, might.  Buon fortuna.

Bill

Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: kingoffleece on October 31, 2021, 08:07:39 AM
I've seen the bulletin at Hamlin's shop.  It's Tech Note No. 010-2006-28-07-2006
For Norge: 10W-60 recommended to guarantee ideal pressure at very high temps.

So, that's it.  Factory recommendation.  You either agree with the factory, or don't.  Hamlin relayed what is recommended.  The other shop did not.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: larrys on October 31, 2021, 08:58:43 AM
Factory shop manual for my Cal specifies 10w-40w. Been using quality 20w-50w oil in it for twenty years. Used to buy Golden Spectro. Last time I used Honda 20w-50w. Innards look new...
Larry
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: kingoffleece on October 31, 2021, 07:15:42 PM
OEM recommendations were superseded by the above mentioned bulletin.
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: ITSec on November 27, 2021, 07:54:50 PM
I have enough miles on both 2v and 8v CARCs that some people here think I know what I'm talking about. (You know who you are, and I hope you're right!).

CARCs can work with lots of things, but they work best when given 10W60 of the appropriate spec level. The least expensive source that is actually reliable is NAPA, where Liqui-Moly 10W60 (automotive specification, but it meets all MG requirements) is available in 5 liter jugs for a reasonable price.

Filters you can get from WIX all day long, as well as from other good sources, but the Mobil1 102 (now listed as a 102A, mostly a marketing upgrade) is a great filter that is available inexpensively throughout the country.

Personally, I would not run anything other than 10W60 oil. But what do I know, with only 250,000+ miles on CARC bikes?
Title: Re: 10w60 or 10w50
Post by: 9fingers on November 27, 2021, 08:32:25 PM
My local OíReilly auto parts story (Midwest chain) keeps this in the back. I had to ask them for it the first time. The guy said they keep it on hand for a couple Porch guys.


(https://i.ibb.co/mqZyH43/A600511-F-A0-BE-4-EF0-B506-167-AEA1765-B1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mqZyH43)


I get it at Walmart.
Scott